Abandoning mortgage?

michael thomas

What happens to the peole who have left their houses and mortgages and just emmigrated? Can the banks really pursue them or do they just have to suck up the loss?? btw im not thinking of doing this i was just curious as to why people would do this as how could they come back home? whats the legal stand point on the above issue?

ABajaninCork

Depends on where you've emigrated to. If it's anywhere in the EU, then you can be pursued for the debt. Outside the EU - very unlikely.

However - emigration isn't a silver bullet. What happens if you need to return to Ireland for whatever reason? If the bank's sold the property, then it'll be sold for peanuts (certainly won't cover the debt) and compound interest will be charged on the shortfall. Which the owner would be still be liable for!!

Is it worth it??

michael thomas

yeah, thats what i was curious about! is it worth it? do they actively try to recuperate their losses and if so how can they get you to pay it if your not in the same country??

wexie

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Depends on where you've emigrated to. If it's anywhere in the EU, then you can be pursued for the debt. Outside the EU - very unlikely.

However - emigration isn't a silver bullet. What happens if you need to return to Ireland for whatever reason? If the bank's sold the property, then it'll be sold for peanuts (certainly won't cover the debt) and compound interest will be charged on the shortfall. Which the owner would be still be liable for!!

Is it worth it??

Is there not supposed to be some kind of 7 year statute of limitations on debt?
Or so I've been told in the most vaguest of terms? (didn't sound all that plausible to me)

hfallada

If you emigrated I would imagine you would have to become bankrupt to stop them recovering your debts.

ABajaninCork

wexie wrote: »

Is there not supposed to be some kind of 7 year statute of limitations on debt?
Or so I've been told in the most vaguest of terms? (didn't sound all that plausible to me)

It's not. There is no Statute of Limitations on a mortgage. The debt is secured on property. It also doesn't apply to taxes.

wexie

ABajaninCork wrote: »

It's not. There is no Statute of Limitations on a mortgage. The debt is secured on property. It also doesn't apply to taxes.

So just 'regular' unsecured debt then?

ABajaninCork

wexie wrote: »

So just 'regular' unsecured debt then?

Yes.

wexie

makes a lot more sense, it seemed a bit odd you could get out of a 30 year commitment by not paying it for only 7 :S

michael thomas

so how would they recover the money? and can they actually track some one? how likely are they to try and recover a sall sum considering the amount thats still owed by property tycoons?

ABajaninCork

It's not unknown for banks to chase mortgage debt outside the EU. If they track you down, that is!

A lot of people go over to the UK for a year and declare themselves bankrupt there. It's discharged after 12 months.

verysimples

Don't sweat it.

A.) If you plan to stay in Ireland or return soon. Your bank will get a judgement against you and anybody else on your mortgage. I.e wife, business partner etc. This can currently last for up to 12 years, for the most part banks will write it off after six/seven years. HOWEVER your credit will be bad for another seven years after the debt is settled. So you might be looking at 19 years. If you are in your twenties maybe this will work for you. Probably not though. Chances are you'll never get credit again ever.

B.) Move ANYWHERE abroad and don't leave a Hansel and Gretel trail of breadcrumbs behind you, after seven years come back and start again with no ties to your previous life at home. You''ll be in the same position as an eighteen year old starting out fresh. Typical repossession can cost up to 30K for bank, chasing you in a far off land can add significantly to this, they'd also have to pay fees to people chasing you for debt in new country etc etc. I.e NOT WORTH IT FOR THEM.

C.) Move abroad for a year or two, make sure property in Ireland has been REPOSSESSED or you have surrendered or sold the property voluntarily with the approval of the bank. Your negative equity is then unsecured debt. Then apply for bankruptcy. Move back and start again after 12-24 months when your bankruptcy has been discharged. Probably better than 19 years, and you might find that time away might convince you to stay away from pixieheadland!!!

D.) Use the Irish insolvency service and be on a defaulters list for life (even if you don't end up using them), no thanks. BAD option.

Hope this helps in some way, I had to post. Tired of seeing advice from people that have no experience of these matters.

ABajaninCork

verysimples wrote: »

Don't sweat it.

A.) If you plan to stay in Ireland or return soon. Your bank will get a judgement against you and anybody else on your mortgage. I.e wife, business partner etc. This can currently last for up to 12 years, for the most part banks will write it off after six/seven years. HOWEVER your credit will be bad for another seven years after the debt is settled. So you might be looking at 19 years. If you are in your twenties maybe this will work for you. Probably not though. Chances are you'll never get credit again ever.

B.) Move ANYWHERE abroad and don't leave a Hansel and Gretel trail of breadcrumbs behind you, after seven years come back and start again with no ties to your previous life at home. You''ll be in the same position as an eighteen year old starting out fresh. Typical repossession can cost up to 30K for bank, chasing you in a far off land can add significantly to this, they'd also have to pay fees to people chasing you for debt in new country etc etc. I.e NOT WORTH IT FOR THEM.

C.) Move abroad for a year or two, make sure property in Ireland has been REPOSSESSED. Your negative equity is then unsecured debt. Then apply for bankruptcy. Move back and start again after 12-24 months when your bankruptcy has been discharged. Probably better than 19 years, and you might find that time away might convince you to stay away from pixieheadland!!!

D.) Use the Irish insolvency service and be on a defaulters list for life (even if you don't end up using them), no thanks. BAD option.

Hope this helps in some way, I had to post. Tired of seeing advice from people that have no experience of these matters.

I assume you mean the UK? I don't know how long a bankruptcy is before discharge elsewhere...
I personally know of a case where the debtor left the keys in the door and went to Japan for four years. I have no idea HOW the bank found him (applied for credit? I don't know), but they did. He was in court for an 85k debt which was the shortfall after the bank reposessed and sold.

verysimples

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I assume you mean the UK? I don't know how long a bankruptcy is before discharge elsewhere...
I personally know of a case where the debtor left the keys in the door and went to Japan for four years. I have no idea HOW the bank found him (applied for credit? I don't know), but they did. He was in court for an 85k debt which was the shortfall after the bank reposessed and sold.

This is exactly why I posted, please reread my previous post & it's good to see that you agree with my other points.

To recap:

Irish law 12 years with Judgement, in most cases banks will write off debt six/seven years. ICB will retain this info for seven years after that date.

Nearly all EU countries offer a fair bankruptcy option, with different lengths in discharge times depending on the country. Pretty much all are better than the republic....

Your statement is unclear, was the person you know brought before a Japanese or Irish court? If it was a Japanese court do you know what legislation the charge that was brought against the person in question?

What was the outcome, and did they declare bankruptcy afterward? if so where?

verysimples

ABajaninCork wrote: »

It's not. There is no Statute of Limitations on a mortgage. The debt is secured on property. It also doesn't apply to taxes.

This is scaremongering, I don't understand what pleasure/kick you get from posting this type of stuff on an anonymous message board but you should stop.

To clarify, if you default on a mortgage your bank will repossess your house and can chase you for any outstanding balance for up to twelve years. Typically they will see sense and probably halfheartedly chase you for a few years and then write it off. (Your credit will be destroyed though for another seven years) Any taxes outstanding on your home/mortgage will be finalized when the bank repossess your house. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE FILLED FOR A DEFERRAL WITH REVENUE. Otherwise you may be liable.

Hope this is of some help, Don't Panic. SH 1T happens

wexie

verysimples wrote: »

To clarify, if you default on a mortgage your bank will repossess your house and can chase you for any outstanding balance for up to twelve years. Typically they will see sense and probably halfheartedly chase you for a few years and then write it off. (Your credit will be destroyed though for another seven years) Any taxes outstanding on your home/mortgage will be finalized when the bank repossess your house. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE FILLED FOR A DEFERRAL WITH REVENUE. Otherwise you may be liable.

Hope this is of some help, Don't Panic. SH 1T happens

B.) Move ANYWHERE abroad and don't leave a Hansel and Gretel trail of breadcrumbs behind you, after seven years come back and start again with no ties to your previous life at home. You''ll be in the same position as an eighteen year old starting out fresh. Typical repossession can cost up to 30K for bank, chasing you in a far off land can add significantly to this, they'd also have to pay fees to people chasing you for debt in new country etc etc. I.e NOT WORTH IT FOR THEM.

Could you explain how the 2 above statements fit together?
Lets say someone was to just leave Ireland and (obviously) default on their mortgage, come back (from well outside of the EU) after 7 years.

Surely then the ICB would still have this information? How does the starting with a clean slate (like an 18 year old) fit into this?

ABajaninCork

verysimples wrote: »

This is scaremongering, I don't understand what pleasure/kick you get from posting this type of stuff on an anonymous message board but you should stop.

To clarify, if you default on a mortgage your bank will repossess your house and can chase you for any outstanding balance for up to twelve years. Typically they will see sense and probably halfheartedly chase you for a few years and then write it off. (Your credit will be destroyed though for another seven years) Any taxes outstanding on your home/mortgage will be finalized when the bank repossess your house. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE FILLED FOR A DEFERRAL WITH REVENUE. Otherwise you may be liable.

Hope this is of some help, Don't Panic. SH 1T happens

HOW DARE YOU??? Where the **** do you get off posting crap like this? I think YOU should stop posting if this is the way you carry on.

This post has been reported...

verysimples

ABajainCork

Sorry for any offence caused, didn't mean to upset you.

I'm happy enough to stand by my comments on the thread though. Have you any issue with the points I made?

Again no personal offence intended

verysimples

DON'T KNOW HOW TO QUOTE WEXIES POST #16

"For up to twelve years" is for people who they (the banks) can get engagement from. Who choose to remain in Ireland, and who don't avail of Irish insolvency.

If the bank have a good idea you have fled, debt will be written off after six/seven years. BUT they could still technically chase you up to 12 years.

To be absolutely sure of no debt when you come back to Ireland you should go bankrupt in your adopted country, make sure that this applies in Ireland though!!! If in the EU you are fine, outside you should seek legal advice.

Other than that there are many options, speak to a specialist accountant or solicitor.

It's late hope this makes sense.

Victor

verysimples wrote: »

This is scaremongering, I don't understand what pleasure/kick you get from posting this type of stuff on an anonymous message board but you should stop.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

HOW DARE YOU??? Where the **** do you get off posting crap like this? I think YOU should stop posting if this is the way you carry on.

This post has been reported...

Knock it off both of you.

Moderator[/]

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Be very wary of adopting any of the suggestions above without proper advice from a solicitor.

Attempting to walk away from a mortgage may have fundamentally life-altering implications.

Boardieman

This happened to a friend of mine. He was given a ridiculous mortgage during the boom when realistically she was too old to ever be able to pay it off in her lifetime. Long story short his company went bust and she could no longer pay her mortgage. He then moved out of the house and stopped paying his mortgage. Every week he receives letters but he just ignores them at this stage. For the last 4 years he has been told it will go to court and as of yet nothing has happened. There is a guy from Dublin defending people who were put in these situations by greedy banks. At this stage there is a good chance that the mortgage may be written off and he will either be allowed keep the house or it will be resold. If there is a good back-story there to why you should not of got a mortgage in the first place then technically you can just walk away and ignore the consequences. The only thing is your credit rating will be black-listed and you will probably have to live under the radar for the rest of your life. You would never be able to apply for another mortgage or loan and you could never link yourself financially to a family member again.

gaius c

Boardieman wrote: »

This happened to a friend of mine. She was given a ridiculous mortgage during the boom when realistically she was too old to ever be able to pay it off in her lifetime. Long story short her company went bust and she could no longer pay her mortgage. She then moved out of the house and stopped paying her mortgage. Every week she receives letters but she just ignores them at this stage. For the last 4 years she has been told it will go to court and as of yet nothing has happened. There is a lady from Dublin defending people who were put in these situations by greedy banks who should never of lended to people like my friend and she is doing all the work and research for free. At this stage there is a good chance that the mortgage may be written off and she will either be allowed keep the house or it will be resold. If there is a good back-story there to why you should not of got a mortgage in the first place then technically you can just walk away and ignore the consequences. The only thing is your credit rating will be black-listed and you will probably have to live under the radar for the rest of your life. You would never be able to apply for another mortgage or loan and you would could never link yourself financially to a family member again.

So your friend signed the contract for a ridiculous mortgage she hadn't a hope of paying off and expects to keep the house she hasn't paid a cent for in 4 years?

mitosis

Can someone explain to me how it is that a foreign (UK eg) court can discharge (bankrupt) a person of debts owed to Irish institutions?

Boardieman

gaius c wrote: »

So your friend signed the contract for a ridiculous mortgage she hadn't a hope of paying off and expects to keep the house he hasn't paid a cent for in 4 years?

Yes and well for him if he gets it. If every individual in Ireland employed their own risk management team back in 2008, things would be very different in this country today. He had plenty of money at the time to pay it off early and had no idea there was a financial crisis on the horizon. I have no time for bashing people on here, especially individuals would used to run successful businesses employing lots of people in this country that have been pigeonholed as greedy business men due to lack of regulation in the banks with regards to lending pre 2008.

gaius c

Boardieman wrote: »

Yes and well for him if he gets it. If every individual in Ireland employed their own risk management team back in 2008, things would be very different in this country today. He had plenty of money at the time to pay it off early and had no idea there was a financial crisis on the horizon. I have no time for bashing people on here, especially individuals would used to run successful businesses employing lots of people in this country that have been pigeonholed as greedy business men due to lack of regulation in the banks with regards to lending pre 2008.

"She" has become a "he" now?
Onto the proven liars list you go.

Boardieman

gaius c wrote: »

"She" has become a "he" now?
Onto the proven liars list you go.

Well done Sherlock. A hermaphrodite actually, if your first response is anything to go by.

Ray Palmer

I think people have a strange idea of how easy it is to disappear to another country. Then there is the idea that all is fine after you declare bankruptcy in another country.

Banks will sell these debts to debt collectors and these people will not have trouble finding you. Emigrate to Australia leaves a huge paper trail. You think everybody who can view this information won't take a bribe to find your address? Are you going to stay out of the country for 12 years?

Are you going to stop using any social media to stay in touch with family or friends? Are your kids going to?

The UK have plans to change their laws to stop bankruptcy tourists.

I am pretty sure some countries will kick you out if you aren't solvent too especially when you are on a temporary visa.

Then the final bit is you will never buy a home in this country ever again. Unlikely to ever get credit either.

If you think that debit collectors wouldn't find you I can say I would do it for the money involved as you would only need to catch 2-3 people a year to make good money. A nice trip to Australia once a year to go find people.

Might not catch everybody but enough.

Godge

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I think people have a strange idea of how easy it is to disappear to another country. Then there is the idea that all is fine after you declare bankruptcy in another country.

Banks will sell these debts to debt collectors and these people will not have trouble finding you. Emigrate to Australia leaves a huge paper trail. You think everybody who can view this information won't take a bribe to find your address? Are you going to stay out of the country for 12 years?

Are you going to stop using any social media to stay in touch with family or friends? Are your kids going to?

The UK have plans to change their laws to stop bankruptcy tourists.

I am pretty sure some countries will kick you out if you aren't solvent too especially when you are on a temporary visa.

Then the final bit is you will never buy a home in this country ever again. Unlikely to ever get credit either.

If you think that debit collectors wouldn't find you I can say I would do it for the money involved as you would only need to catch 2-3 people a year to make good money. A nice trip to Australia once a year to go find people.

Might not catch everybody but enough.

A better way for the banks to catch people in the smaller towns of Ireland is keep an eye on the death notices. You will generally be aware of the family connections and if a person comes home for the death of a parent, there is a double benefit, catch the person and get the money for the outstanding debt from the inheritance.

It will all come down to each person's individual circumstances so while there will be stories of people going to the UK and coming back and having a great life escaping their debts, there will be others who try something similar, get caught out and end up in a horrible mess.

Ray Palmer

Godge wrote: »

A better way for the banks to catch people in the smaller towns of Ireland is keep an eye on the death notices. .

An erratic way to find people. Much easier to wait for Christmas, Easter and summer holidays. Many people come home then

No Pants

Godge wrote: »

A better way for the banks to catch people in the smaller towns of Ireland is keep an eye on the death notices. You will generally be aware of the family connections and if a person comes home for the death of a parent, there is a double benefit, catch the person and get the money for the outstanding debt from the inheritance.

That's pretty much what I was going to ask about. The people who are contemplating this action are of an age where there's likely to be a future inheritance. Not even any need to "catch" a person, just the cheque before they receive it.

Mr. Loverman

There is no way you can stay out of the country for 7+ years.

Will you really avoid going to a loved one's funeral? Their wedding? The last chance to talk to them face to face before they die?

Most people aren't that cold. You might think you can handle it but when the situation arises you won't be able to.

Ray Palmer

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

There is no way you can stay out of the country for 7+ years.

Will you really avoid going to a loved one's funeral? Their wedding? The last chance to talk to them face to face before they die?

Most people aren't that cold. You might think you can handle it but when the situation arises you won't be able to.

In fairness many people living illegally in another country go through this all the time. A good friend of mine missed his brothers funeral because he lived in the USA illegally

I agree most people would find it very hard to stay out of the country unless they have no family or friends.

Boardieman

How about if everybody just minded their own business and until they are in a position where they can't pay their debts anymore, come back then with an opinion. People in this country love the idea of getting somebody in trouble. Get on with your life and stop worrying what others are doing. I can only imagine how many people on this thread work in the public sector and haven't experienced a hard day financially in their life! If they want to leave the country let them. It's not your problem, it's their debtors.

verysimples

mitosis wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how it is that a foreign (UK eg) court can discharge (bankrupt) a person of debts owed to Irish institutions?

When a bank gets a judgement/repossession order against you. They take your property and will sell it on. Example below

Outstanding on mortgage 200,000
Legal fees, charges, taxes etc etc. 40,000 (pig iron figure)

You owe 240,000

Bank sell the house for 100,000

You now owe the bank 140,000 in unsecured debt.

You have moved to the uk (in this example) for at least six months and can prove it. You can apply for bankruptcy, all unsecured debts will be written off (thanks european law) after a period typically between 9 & 12 months. HOWEVER this process isn't an easy option, your assets will be sold off your bank account will be monitored your credit will be screwed for a long time.Your house, savings car will be gone.

DISCLAMER:::: Talk to a Professional person before even considering this ::::

But you will at least have the option to start off again unlike here in Ireland where Begrudgery O' Gombeen would rather you lived in penury for the rest of your adult life because of some spastic and frighteningly short sighted view of his/her taxes and how they are spent versus what actually happens in the real world.

If you stay in Ireland you will go through a similar process as the UK, its a slightly longer process, probably five times the term available in the UK.

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

verysimples choice for the average joe

verysimples

Ray Palmer wrote: »

In fairness many people living illegally in another country go through this all the time. A good friend of mine missed his brothers funeral because he lived in the USA illegally

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

There is no way you can stay out of the country for 7+ years.

Will you really avoid going to a loved one's funeral? Their wedding? The last chance to talk to them face to face before they die?

Most people aren't that cold. You might think you can handle it but when the situation arises you won't be able to.

Do you really think that the police will be waiting at the arrival gate for you because you didn't pay a bill?

It doesn't work like that. If you take out a loan. f.t.l.o.g read the terms and conditions. Educate yourself and relax the kacks.

mitosis

verysimples wrote: »

When a bank gets a judgement/repossession order against you. They take your property and will sell it on. Example below

Outstanding on mortgage 200,000
Legal fees, charges, taxes etc etc. 40,000 (pig iron figure)

You owe 240,000

Bank sell the house for 100,000

You now owe the bank 140,000 in unsecured debt.

You have moved to the uk (in this example) for at least six months and can prove it. You can apply for bankruptcy, all unsecured debts will be written off (thanks european law) after a period typically between 9 & 12 months. HOWEVER this process isn't an easy option, your assets will be sold off your bank account will be monitored your credit will be screwed for a long time.Your house, savings car will be gone.

DISCLAMER:::: Talk to a Professional person before even considering this ::::

But you will at least have the option to start off again unlike here in Ireland where Begrudgery O' Gombeen would rather you lived in penury for the rest of your adult life because of some spastic and frighteningly short sighted view of his/her taxes and how they are spent versus what actually happens in the real world.

If you stay in Ireland you will go through a similar process as the UK, its a slightly longer process, probably five times the term available in the UK.

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

verysimples choice for the average joe

I didn't mean "How do you go about it?", I meant "How can a foreign country be empowered to discharge debts in another country?", Ireland in this case?

verysimples

European law, my friend. What's good for the goose.... Why do you think so many of our former property magnates have been thin on the ground?

No Pants

Boardieman wrote: »

How about if everybody just minded their own business

Worst discussion forum idea ever.

Mr. Loverman

Boardieman wrote: »

How about if everybody just minded their own business

Every time someone defaults on their mortgage the Irish tax payer gets the bill.

This is because we are still bailing out the banks.

So it actually is our business.

Senna

Could banks sell on the debt to debt collectors? If they know the person has left the country, getting 10/20c on the € might be well worth it and i'm sure there is large enough debt collectors to see a profit in this?

3DataModem

Ray Palmer wrote: »

An erratic way to find people. Much easier to wait for Christmas, Easter and summer holidays. Many people come home then

Yep. I've a mate who used to repo cars on Christmas morning outside mass.

theUbiq

verysimples wrote: »

When a bank gets a judgement/repossession order against you. They take your property and will sell it on. Example below

Outstanding on mortgage 200,000
Legal fees, charges, taxes etc etc. 40,000 (pig iron figure)

You owe 240,000

Bank sell the house for 100,000

You now owe the bank 140,000 in unsecured debt.

You have moved to the uk (in this example) for at least six months and can prove it. You can apply for bankruptcy, all unsecured debts will be written off (thanks european law) after a period typically between 9 & 12 months. HOWEVER this process isn't an easy option, your assets will be sold off your bank account will be monitored your credit will be screwed for a long time.Your house, savings car will be gone.

DISCLAMER:::: Talk to a Professional person before even considering this ::::

But you will at least have the option to start off again unlike here in Ireland where Begrudgery O' Gombeen would rather you lived in penury for the rest of your adult life because of some spastic and frighteningly short sighted view of his/her taxes and how they are spent versus what actually happens in the real world.

If you stay in Ireland you will go through a similar process as the UK, its a slightly longer process, probably five times the term available in the UK.

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

verysimples choice for the average joe

Why borrow more than you can afford to pay back? And why not be a responsible member of society and try to pay it back? surely that's something someone as simple as you can understand. I'd prefer my tax was used to finance the running of the country and not bailing out people who cannot pay their mortgage (the reasons why they cannot pay are irrelevant to me, I didn't buy a house I cannot afford). What about the greedy ****s that are strategically defaulting? Isn't that fraud? Fraud is a criminal offence. When are those greedy ****ers getting arrested?

There are many angles on this and the one you propose doesn't work for me or many people I know who didn't borrow stupid amounts of money to keep up with the joneses.

If you borrow the money you pay it back. If you cannot pay it back and cannot come to an arrangement with the bank you lose your ability to borrow money... that's life, it sucks when you **** up.

Guy:Incognito

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Yes.

How does that work?Someone just stops paying their unsecured loan, ignores the banks calls, then presumably the crowd the bank sells the debt to , for 7 years and all is fogiven ? Seems too goodto be true?

drumswan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

An erratic way to find people. Much easier to wait for Christmas, Easter and summer holidays. Many people come home then

Do you think the banks stand in the arrivals hall at Dublin airport with big nets? Theres nothing to stop people coming and going from Ireland during this process.

Ray Palmer

verysimples wrote: »

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

Do you really think credit institutions care about your legally disposed assets or the fact you didn't pay your debts? It is in your financial history. You won't get credit and certainly a mortgage is not going to happen. My cousin went bankrupt in the UK 20 years ago and can't get a credit card let alone a mortgage. If it wasn't for his wife he would be renting. He wouldn't have a business either.

verysimples wrote: »

Do you really think that the police will be waiting at the arrival gate for you because you didn't pay a bill?

It doesn't work like that. If you take out a loan. f.t.l.o.g read the terms and conditions. Educate yourself and relax the kacks.

Never said the police would be waiting I said the debit collectors will be watching. As pointed out car repossessions are done on Christmas day as it is easy to do. There is a simple financial incentive for people to do this.

Shedite27

michael thomas wrote: »

What happens to the peole who have left their houses and mortgages and just emmigrated? Can the banks really pursue them or do they just have to suck up the loss??

No the bank will pass the loss onto us (the bank customers) who will have to pay more bank charges to pay for the amount you spent on property

The_Conductor

verysimples wrote: »

European law, my friend. What's good for the goose.... Why do you think so many of our former property magnates have been thin on the ground?

The UK are seriously tightening up their procedures.
They're fed up of non-nationals parachuting in, hanging around for a few months and then declaring themselves bankrupt.
They're getting a bad reputation throughout Europe for facilitating this.
To be honest- the Irish aren't even the worst abusers of the law- there are far more Germans availing of UK bankruptcy law than nationals of any other EU country.

Expect to see a much more strict interpretation of 'centre of economic activity' going forwards- alongside more detailed and forensic examination of finances.

The Irish solution to reform of our Victorian Bankruptcy law- has made no-one happy- its annoyed both creditors and debtors. Arguably- when neither side is happy, you've done a good job- however in this instance- the existence of the much more lenient regime in the UK, makes a mockery of our honest attempts to reform our personal bankruptcy law.

For the record- I don't think its fair that anyone who avails of the new service has a black mark on their record for life. Some of the UK's greatest entrepreneurs are former bankrupts- indeed Richard Branson was jailed for fraud in his early days- and by anyone's standards- he is an icon that we all aspire to.

Get over the notion of nipping across to the UK for a few months and claiming bankruptcy. Get over the notion- of there being no consequences of ignoring letters from your lenders here. Engage with them. Don't promise them anything you can't deliver. You won't get to keep nice houses you can't pay for. Under Irish law- you will have a home with a roof over your head regardless of what happens. It may not be the one you bought with borrowed money- and indeed, it may not be yours ever, but you will be accommodated. This is more than many EU countries provide, despite their UN obligations.

Having a reasonable debate in this thread- is fine.
Attacking one another- is not.
Please be constructive and civil towards one another- if you intend to continue posting here.

Regards,

The_Conductor

verysimples

The_Conductor wrote: »

The UK are seriously tightening up their procedures.
They're fed up of non-nationals parachuting in, hanging around for a few months and then declaring themselves bankrupt.
They're getting a bad reputation throughout Europe for facilitating this.
To be honest- the Irish aren't even the worst abusers of the law- there are far more Germans availing of UK bankruptcy law than nationals of any other EU country.

Expect to see a much more strict interpretation of 'centre of economic activity' going forwards- alongside more detailed and forensic examination of finances.

The Irish solution to reform of our Victorian Bankruptcy law- has made no-one happy- its annoyed both creditors and debtors. Arguably- when neither side is happy, you've done a good job- however in this instance- the existence of the much more lenient regime in the UK, makes a mockery of our honest attempts to reform our personal bankruptcy law.

For the record- I don't think its fair that anyone who avails of the new service has a black mark on their record for life. Some of the UK's greatest entrepreneurs are former bankrupts- indeed Richard Branson was jailed for fraud in his early days- and by anyone's standards- he is an icon that we all aspire to.

Get over the notion of nipping across to the UK for a few months and claiming bankruptcy. Get over the notion- of there being no consequences of ignoring letters from your lenders here. Engage with them. Don't promise them anything you can't deliver. You won't get to keep nice houses you can't pay for. Under Irish law- you will have a home with a roof over your head regardless of what happens. It may not be the one you bought with borrowed money- and indeed, it may not be yours ever, but you will be accommodated. This is more than many EU countries provide, despite their UN obligations.

Having a reasonable debate in this thread- is fine.
Attacking one another- is not.
Please be constructive and civil towards one another- if you intend to continue posting here.

Regards,

The_Conductor

You are absolutely right, I would suggest to anybody thinking of going bankrupt anywhere to use it as a very last option. I hope I haven't presented it as an easy option in any way.

Any posts I've made (above) are directed towards people who have absolutely no other option, In my opinion the Irish Insolvency Service option is deeply unfair and biased towards the banks. I'm just trying to point out to people that you can restart your life but to reiterate its not an easy option. Anyone thinking they can disappear for a year or so and everything will be perfect would be in for a rude awakening.

I think I've said it a couple of times, but it should be repeated: Seek professional advice, they will be best able to assess your situation and advise you from there. There are no easy options.

I'll leave it there.