Autumn Grazing.

jersey101

Want to start building grass for the autumn. What do i do, have never built grass before. Meant to start measuring this year but it didn't happen.

Thanks

Timmaay

At the very least, get a calender, number all your paddocks, and write down what paddocks is grazed what days on it, then see what your rotation length is, your aim this time of the year is to start stretching out the rotation length to about 30days, will help build covers. If you don't grass measure now, get on to your teagasc adviser and ask him to show ya, he will drop out and do a farm walk with you, and give you some idea on the covers. 1st few times it can be very much so guesswork, but in time it will become 2nd nature to look at a field and put a value of say 1200kg/ha on it, as opposed to "a decent bit" ha!

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

At the very least, get a calender, number all your paddocks, and write down what paddocks is grazed what days on it, then see what your rotation length is, your aim this time of the year is to start stretching out the rotation length to about 30days, will help build covers. If you don't grass measure now, get on to your teagasc adviser and ask him to show ya, he will drop out and do a farm walk with you, and give you some idea on the covers. 1st few times it can be very much so guesswork, but in time it will become 2nd nature to look at a field and put a value of say 1200kg/ha on it, as opposed to "a decent bit" ha!

ah i can eye ball grass alright just havent got into the routine of doing a weekly walk and doing budgets. Thanks for the advice

jaymla627

Yeah mentioned you done the dairying down in kildalton surely james ryan has that drilled into yeah,its all the man can think of grass grass and more grass our is he not down there anymore.

jersey101

jaymla627 wrote: »

Yeah mentioned you done the dairying down in kildalton surely james ryan has that drilled into yeah,its all the man can think of grass grass and more grass our is he not down there anymore.

oh he's still there alright, ah sure i thought it would be better to start measuring next spring but it was really just an exuse not to start doing it

Timmaay

jersey101 wrote: »

oh he's still there alright, ah sure i thought it would be beter start measuring next spring but it was really just an exuse not to start doing it

Where do you thing you stand now, in your rotation? What are pregraze covers, do you think you in excess or short on grass? All guesswork now, the odds are you will be off and wont utilitize your grass as good as you could and you're losing money! If you want make more money then start measuring now, its as simple as that, for the 1/2 an hr a wk it takes it will well payback in extra/better quality grass that you'll get from proper management! Hmm you said your wexford? Is it north wexford? Next discussion group meeting I have is on my farm next week and one topics we are talking about the autumn planner if ya want to gatecrash it ha!

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

Where do you thing you stand now, in your rotation? What are pregraze covers, do you think you in excess or short on grass? All guesswork now, the odds are you will be off and wont utilitize your grass as good as you could and you're losing money! If you want make more money then start measuring now, its as simple as that, for the 1/2 an hr a wk it takes it will well payback in extra/better quality grass that you'll get from proper management! Hmm you said your wexford? Is it north wexford? Next discussion group meeting I have is on my farm next week and one topics we are talking about the autumn planner if ya want to gatecrash it ha!

em id say there gone into a cover of 800 tonight. Grass gotten very tight in the last week. Another 5 days in this rotation and grass is going to be tighter next round. I wouldnt ve quiet north, bunclody area. Are you in one of the gorey groups??

Timmaay

Nay east wicklow, but afew lads on the boarder in our group,but still, your fairly far away ha! You should join one of the gorey groups of you don't have any group now. But yeh grazing covers of 800 with not much in front of you certainly wouldn't be great, assuming your stocking rate is in around the 2.5cows/ha, not much scope to build covers. But ya will really need to start measuring the grass to findout what the grow rate is, and if its ahead of demand, if it's not you got no choice but to slow down the rotation with more feed/silage, or cut the demand and dryoff cows etc.

freedominacup

The ground we cut the wholecrop from on Sat was re-seeded by lunchtime today. High and dry beside yard so should go a long way on building covers for the backend.

2 tonne lime, 2 bags 10-10-20 and stitched in. We had it laid out for grass since the spring so easily done now.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

The ground we cut the wholecrop from on Sat was re-seeded by lunchtime today. High and dry beside yard so should go a long way on building covers for the backend.

2 tonne lime, 2 bags 10-10-20 and stitched in. We had it laid out for grass since the spring so easily done now.

Roundup hopefully somewhere in there aswell or you will be disappointed

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Roundup hopefully somewhere in there aswell or you will be disappointed

Nothing to hit tbh. You said it to me before but it was only in the ground around 14 weeks and we got a great kill with the herbicde. Not like your w.wheats where grass weeds have a long time to re-establish after herbicide.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Nothing to hit tbh. You said it to me before but it was only in the ground around 14 weeks and we got a great kill with the herbicde. Not like your w.wheats where grass weeds have a long time to re-establish after herbicide.

Depends, probably with new ground there mightnt be issues but I would nearly have waited for a week to get a hit on the early germinators

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

Nay east wicklow, but afew lads on the boarder in our group,but still, your fairly far away ha! You should join one of the gorey groups of you don't have any group now. But yeh grazing covers of 800 with not much in front of you certainly wouldn't be great, assuming your stocking rate is in around the 2.5cows/ha, not much scope to build covers. But ya will really need to start measuring the grass to findout what the grow rate is, and if its ahead of demand, if it's not you got no choice but to slow down the rotation with more feed/silage, or cut the demand and dryoff cows etc.

i used to to live in wicklow would have kinda been east before we sold the land and bought the land here

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Depends, probably with new ground there mightnt be issues but I would nearly have waited for a week to get a hit on the early germinators

Some of it was after beet the rest was hit with round-up 10 days before ploughing in April. Not much sign of anything in the line of early germinators. I'll keep an eye, there'll be a week at least when roundup can still be applied.

whelan1

Timmaay wrote: »

Nay east wicklow, but afew lads on the boarder in our group,but still, your fairly far away ha! You should join one of the gorey groups of you don't have any group now. But yeh grazing covers of 800 with not much in front of you certainly wouldn't be great, assuming your stocking rate is in around the 2.5cows/ha, not much scope to build covers. But ya will really need to start measuring the grass to findout what the grow rate is, and if its ahead of demand, if it's not you got no choice but to slow down the rotation with more feed/silage, or cut the demand and dryoff cows etc.

agree, do a walk , then you will know, now is the time to act not in a week when there is nothing there

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

Want to start building grass for the autumn. What do i do, have never built grass before. Meant to start measuring this year but it didn't happen.

Thanks

Go out tomorrow and measure what you have on the farm at the moment. Let us know what your SR is. You can then make a plan. You'll need an Afc of 1200 by mid Sept if at any kind of heavy SR

You posted that the cows are going into covers of 800. Too low considering growth we've had. If that's your highest cover you need to go now with 50 units of N because I'd say you've been holding back

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

Go out tomorrow and measure what you have on the farm at the moment. Let us know what your SR is. You can then make a plan. You'll need an Afc of 1200 by mid Sept if at any kind of heavy SR

You posted that the cows are going into covers of 800. Too low considering growth we've had. If that's your highest cover you need to go now with 50 units of N because I'd say you've been holding back

well theres 10ac of a reseed to come back in in 3 weeks and the silage ground will be back in then to, have 17 ac of that and theres 12 ac extra in that field going to be sown to rape,
Cant say ive been holding back on the N spread 28t of can already this year and im only let spread 29t, and thats with a derogation

whelan1

jersey101 wrote: »

well theres 10ac of a reseed to come back in in 3 weeks and the silage ground will be back in then to, have 17 ac of that and theres 12 ac extra in that field going to be sown to rape,
Cant say ive been holding back on the N spread 28t of can already this year and im only let spread 29t, and thats with a derogation

when did you do your last walk?

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

well theres 10ac of a reseed to come back in in 3 weeks and the silage ground will be back in then to, have 17 ac of that and theres 12 ac extra in that field going to be sown to rape,
Cant say ive been holding back on the N spread 28t of can already this year and im only let spread 29t, and thats with a derogation

So 800 wasn't your highest cover or was it??

We can't advise till you know your cover and Sr. Sounds like you'll have plenty when all is back in.

It was suggested by Tim that you do a walk, did you? It's bright for another 20 mins you'd get a few done now and a few more going for the cows and a few more bringing them in. By the time you've your porridge eaten tomorrow you'll have all the info you need

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

So 800 wasn't your highest cover or was it??

We can't advise till you know your cover and Sr. Sounds like you'll have plenty when all is back in.

It was suggested by Tim that you do a walk, did you? It's bright for another 20 mins you'd get a few done now and a few more going for the cows and a few more bringing them in. By the time you've your porridge eaten tomorrow you'll have all the info you need

ye it was the highest thats why the cows went into it.
Didnt do a walk today was drawing in bales all day until half an hour ago
Ill have all the info tomorrow evening.
You might have had good growth but ive had very little, only an inch of rain so far

freedominacup

jersey101 wrote: »

ye it was the highest thats why the cows went into it.
Didnt do a walk today was drawing in bales all day until half an hour ago
Ill have all the info tomorrow evening.
You might have had good growth but ive had very little, only an inch of rain so far

I'm somewhere between the two of you. I've been reading de's posts about grass jumping out of the ground and while we've had a response nothing to get excited about. TBH what rain that has fallen has been interspersed with enough dry warm weather to neutralise a lot of it. They're just getting back into good covers now and I can see 10 days ahead now but only now. I had to put heifers on bales yesterday.

TEAT SQUEEZER

+1 ... just enough rain here to get things going nothing else 140/cow last monday better now i`m sure .. will measure this w/e

on the derogation is there a N limit in the 170 - 210 kgs band? .. i thought effectivly not...

over that is it not the increased organic N that sets a limit again on chemical...

op are u on an overall farm sr near 3/ha

jersey101

Stocking rate on grazing ground is 3.42lu/ha
When silage ground is back in it will be at 2.81lu/ha
farm cover 430

Timmaay

How much are you supplementing? You really got no choice but to slow down the rotation, can you cut the demand at all, flog on poor preforming ladies etc? How are you quota wise, and are you short on winter fodder? Utter no brainer if your short on winter feed and pushing quota to cull afew. Also, when will that silage be fit to cut, the sooner you get that off the field and that ground back into rotation the better.

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

How much are you supplementing? You really got no choice but to slow down the rotation, can you cut the demand at all, flog on poor preforming ladies etc? How are you quota wise, and are you short on winter fodder? Utter no brainer if your short on winter feed and pushing quota to cull afew. Also, when will that silage be fit to cut, the sooner you get that off the field and that ground back into rotation the better.

4 kg meal
Eh theres 4 cows not in calf was thinking about moving them on.
20% under quota as of last month but will be over by march have more autumn calvers this year than before and all spring calving will be finished in the last week of March.
12 acres left to cut out of the 30, that is going yo be disced up and sown to forage rape for young stock, its pure dirt grass and as of now i only have 430 bales so may sow it to get me through. 7 of that other 18 acres is sown to itailian ryegrass and im thinking about cutting that again to get more silage.
Also have 4ac of redstart sown for the winter milking cows sown sunday two weeks ago and its up about an inch.

freedominacup

jersey101 wrote: »

4 kg meal
Eh theres 4 cows not in calf was thinking about moving them on.
20% under quota as of last month but will be over by march have more autumn calvers this year than before and all spring calving will be finished in the last week of March.
12 acres left to cut out of the 30, that is going yo be disced up and sown to forage rape for young stock, its pure dirt grass and as of now i only have 430 bales so may sow it to get me through. 7 of that other 18 acres is sown to itailian ryegrass and im thinking about cutting that again to get more silage.
Also have 4ac of redstart sown for the winter milking cows sown sunday two weeks ago and its up about an inch.

No-one could say you're not being pro-active anyway. I'd have little fear for you.

just do it

Jersey
What weight are your cows? Am I right in thinking jersey cows are around 525kg on average and large B&W cows can be 650-700kg? It's just I see SR being expressed as cow/ha or lu/ha and possibly kglw/ha as used by beef farmers is a better measure for cross-farm comparison.

Assuming your cows average 525kg, your stocking rate of 3.42/ha has the same demand as a SR of 2.76/ha for 650kg cows.

just do it

What is the right post-grazing height for paddocks this time of year. Still 4cm?

delaval

just do it wrote: »

Jersey
What weight are your cows? Am I right in thinking jersey cows are around 525kg on average and large B&W cows can be 650-700kg? It's just I see SR being expressed as cow/ha or lu/ha and possibly kglw/ha as used by beef farmers is a better measure for cross-farm comparison.

Assuming your cows average 525kg, your stocking rate of 3.42/ha has the same demand as a SR of 2.76/ha for 650kg cows.

A Jex is one hungry begger and will only eat maybe 1kgdm less that's compared to your average cow. They never stop eating

just do it

delaval wrote: »

A Jex is one hungry begger and will only eat maybe 1kgdm less that's compared to your average cow. They never stop eating

That's gas. Do the produce the same amount and quality of milk as their larger comrades i.e. same or better FCE? (oh I hear the jersey vs b&w debate kicking off again!)

just do it

just do it wrote: »

What is the right post-grazing height for paddocks this time of year. Still 4cm?

Bump

Timmaay

just do it wrote: »

That's gas. Do the produce the same amount and quality of milk as their larger comrades i.e. same or better FCE? (oh I hear the jersey vs b&w debate kicking off again!)

Going to have the xbred/b&w cow debate at the discussion group meeting today. Should be interesting. I'm comparing production figures of the 7 jex heifers I have against myown spring heifers, solids wise there is very little in it at all, but 1000l difference in volume, which is still what adds up in the milkcheque at the end of the day.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Going to have the xbred/b&w cow debate at the discussion group meeting today. Should be interesting. I'm comparing production figures of the 7 jex heifers I have against myown spring heifers, solids wise there is very little in it at all, but 1000l difference in volume, which is still what adds up in the milkcheque at the end of the day.

Solids % or solids kgs?

Timmaay

305D production for the je are predicted to be 360kg, against 380kg for myown. This is based on monthly milk recording data. Despite our herd being all 80%+ HO, I'll admit they aren't bred for massive production or anything though.

Average scc of the je 40, against 140 for myown heifers also.

just do it

Seeing as no one would do the decent thing and type the 3 letter word "yes" in reply to my question if 4cm is still the post grazing target height for autumn, I'll answer it myself:

just do it

To add to the JSX vs HO debate:



Funny thing about this, I thought cattle consume 2% of their body weight in kgDM per day

jersey101

Sorry i haven't got back to ye lads been flat out the last few days with milking for a lad and at home,

Answering your question just do it i have mixed herd here ive never weighed and cows here but when im dosing them i work JE off 520kgs i put most HO's at 620kgs and crosses at 580kg but they all vary.

With the grazing question i pick up a book from germinal seeds at tullamore on sunday and they had a page on golf ball grazing and they had come to the conclusion that grazing to 4.5cm virsus 3.5cm produced more tonnes of DM over the year. They had a graph and all on it.

jersey101

Sorry i haven't got back to ye lads been flat out the last few days with milking for a lad and at home,

Answering your question just do it i have mixed herd here ive never weighed and cows here but when im dosing them i work JE off 520kgs i put most HO's at 620kgs and crosses at 580kg but they all vary.

With the grazing question i pick up a book from germinal seeds at tullamore on sunday and they had a page on golf ball grazing and they had come to the conclusion that grazing to 4.5cm virsus 3.5cm produced more tonnes of DM over the year. They had a graph and all on it.

just do it

Cheers jersey.
Now that I think of it the critical thing about post grazing is the grass is left with 1 leaf to allow for photosynthesis and N utilisation leading to more rapid regrowth. Presumably then going by that bit of research 3.5 cm is just a bit too tight.

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

What is the right post-grazing height for paddocks this time of year. Still 4cm?

as tight as possible always

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

as tight as possible always

Ah ha good you've entered the fray. But when is tight too tight?!

Timmaay

How are things building back up for ya now jersey?

jersey101

Timmaay wrote: »

How are things building back up for ya now jersey?

unbelievable tbh. Cows have been grazing itailian for the last 7 days and were on another silage field 4 days before that. 32 day rotation now. Went with a bag of 10-10-20 across the whole farm 10 days ago. Walked the farm today and the paddocks they will be going into are ranging from 1300 to 1000.
Wont last too long though the calves and incalf heifers are eating alot. Thinking of giving calves some meal

Sam Kade

just do it wrote: »

To add to the JSX vs HO debate:



Funny thing about this, I thought cattle consume 2% of their body weight in kgDM per day

It's 3% on grass.