O’Rourke proposes FF coalition with FG

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/o-rourke-proposes-ff-coalition-with-fg-1.1487162

Former deputy leader says parties should forgo past differences after next election
Former Fianna Fáil deputy leader Mary O’Rourke has proposed a coalition between her party and Fine Gael after the next election.
Speaking at the William Carleton Summer School in Clogher, Co Tyrone, on the theme of How Differences Can Be Accommodated she said it was now time to forgo past differences.

I just heard an interview with Mary O'Rourke on the news at one.
She was proposing a FG/FF coalition after the next election if the numbers add up.

I would be broadly in favour of this - the two parties are broadly similar.
I don't see the members of whoever would be the junior party being too keen.

raymon

pg633 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/o-rourke-proposes-ff-coalition-with-fg-1.1487162

I just heard an interview with Mary O'Rourke on the news at one.
She was proposing a FG/FF coalition after the next election if the numbers add up.

I would be broadly in favour of this - the two parties are broadly similar.
I don't see the members of whoever would be the junior party being too keen.

Nobody is saying why this would be a good thing for Ireland.

It would be a good thing for FF. They could sneak back into power.
Otherwise I don't see a benefit of ensuring FFs return to power.

Note to easons : get the brown envelopes stocked up again, FF are trying to sneak back in.

Skrynesaver

There isn't room for a cigarette paper between the two, so the failure of our institutions to prevent corruption, power attracts the corrupt and FF have had it for longer, I don't buy the FG are a cleaner more responsible line of BS.

It would at least bury civil war politics and force the electorate to differentiate on policy lines rather than which side their grandfather stood on.

Might be a good thing in the long term, though it would be damaging to the 2 parties concerned in the long term also, so unfortunately I don't see it getting the backroom seal of approval.

raymon

Skrynesaver wrote: »

There isn't room for a cigarette paper between the two, so the failure of our institutions to prevent corruption, power attracts the corrupt and FF have had it for longer, I don't buy the FG are a cleaner more responsible line of BS.

It would at least bury civil war politics and force the electorate to differentiate on policy lines rather than which side their grandfather stood on.

Might be a good thing in the long term, though it would be damaging to the 2 parties concerned in the long term also, so unfortunately I don't see it getting the backroom seal of approval.

Nobody needs to bury civil war politics. Fianna Fail are no longer a republican party , but a party that callously bankrupted our country and gladly handed the republics soverignty to foreign powers. Politics has moved on. No need to go back 10 generations.

COYW

raymon wrote: »

Nobody is saying why this would be a good thing for Ireland.

It would be a good thing for FF. They could sneak back into power.
Otherwise I don't see a benefit of ensuring FFs return to power.

Note to easons : get the brown envelopes stocked up again, FF are trying to sneak back in.

Sneak? Last time I checked they were top of the polls. I would be very surprised if FF were not in power next time round. FF & FG would have a sizable majority, which is never a healthy situation.

If a FF/FG coalition came to be, we would have a nothing opposition consisting of a bunch left wing idealists i.e. independents, old style Labour and SF (who are looking more like FF as time passes by).

Skrynesaver

raymon wrote: »

Nobody needs to bury civil war politics. Fianna Fail are no longer a republican party , but a party that callously bankrupted our country and gladly handed the republics soverignty to foreign powers. Politics has moved on. No need to go back 10 generations.

10 generations? ye sure breed young in your family

Sadly the vast majority of the electorate do not address policy issues when determining who to vote for, rather a combination of the party the family always voted for, local personalities (AKA "he fixed the road") and the current target for vengeance (AKA "They fsck'd the economy","They gave my pension to the banks").

I wish the electorate had moved on, but I see no evidence for it.

raymon

COYW wrote: »

Sneak? Last time I checked they were top of the polls. I would be very surprised if FF were not in power next time round. FF & FG would have a sizable majority, which is never a healthy situation.

If a FF/FG coalition came to be, we would have a nothing opposition consisting of a bunch left wing idealists i.e. independents, old style Labour and SF (who are looking more like FF as time passes by).

You may want to check your latest polls

FF at a lowly 22% against FG at 29%

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fg-support-unaffected-by-abortion-law-poll-29483921.html

raymon

Skrynesaver wrote: »

10 generations? ye sure breed young in your family

Sadly the vast majority of the electorate do not address policy issues when determining who to vote for, rather a combination of the party the family always voted for, local personalities (AKA "he fixed the road") and the current target for vengeance (AKA "They fsck'd the economy","They gave my pension to the banks").

I wish the electorate had moved on, but I see no evidence for it.

I think you are wrong here . I think policies are looked at and scrutinised more these days than at any time in the past. He fixed the road man is hopefully a dying breed.

Red Kev

Funny how FF and FG are always at loggerheads in the Dail, yet they almost always voted alongside each other in county councils when it came to rezonings over the past 20 years.

raymon wrote: »

I think you are wrong here . I think policies are looked at and scrutinised more these days than at any time in the past. He fixed the road man is hopefully a dying breed.

Bad news for you, Mr. "fixed the roads man" was elected Taoiseach in February 2011. Just listen to the first 25 seconds of this: parish pump politics at it's finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaq7aVDvDJ4

jank

raymon wrote: »

Nobody is saying why this would be a good thing for Ireland.

It would be a good thing for FF. They could sneak back into power.
Otherwise I don't see a benefit of ensuring FFs return to power.

Note to easons : get the brown envelopes stocked up again, FF are trying to sneak back in.

It would be good for Ireland as it would seem to end civil war politics where the two main parties are similar in many aspects of policy. I personally think this has a very good chance of happening soon. A FG/FF coalition would get alot more done in terms of reform of the PS, Welfare and spending than the current government with Labour in the ranks.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

jank wrote: »

It would be good for Ireland as it would seem to end civil war politics where the two main parties are similar in many aspects of policy. I personally think this has a very good chance of happening soon. A FG/FF coalition would get alot more done in terms of reform of the PS, Welfare and spending than the current government with Labour in the ranks.

FF are probably desperate to get back into power but if they went in as junior partners in a coalition then it might put them off. The two parties have always fed off each other.

If they did go into power together then an actual real alternative of an opposition might form.:eek: Neither of them want that though.

Mr.Micro

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

FF are probably desperate to get back into power but if they went in as junior partners in a coalition then it might put them off. The two parties have always fed off each other.

If they did go into power together then an actual real alternative of an opposition might form.:eek: Neither of them want that though.

FF are indeed desperate to get back into power. FG would need to think long and hard before it weds FF. The latter would prove to be just as reckless IMO when it came to its duties in running the country. Would FG be prepared to risk being undermined by sharing power with FF when both would want to be boss. I very much doubt if any real opposition party would arise, if this were to happen and as such it would not be good for the country. I would be opposed to FF in its present state in Government as it is the same party as it was that ruined the country.

Sand

Mammy O'Rourke? Who the hell listens to her opinions these days?

FG and FF are *very* similar, being both splinters from a previously united party. However FF are a toxic brand. I know FF activists cant grasp it but FF is essentially a metaphor for corruption/incompetence/loss of sovereignty. Why in gods name would FG want to associate with a toxic brand? FG will have their pick of partners in the next shakeup: FF and their brand of incompetent gombeenism wont offer any additional benefits to FG.

chughes

Sand wrote: »

Mammy O'Rourke? Who the hell listens to her opinions these days?

It seems Billo agrees with Mammy :

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/oherlihy-to-call-for-fgff-alliance-at-beal-na-mblath-29489419.html

Imagine if FF and FG decided to reintegrate and claimed back the name Sinn Fein. Would that mean that the current incarnation of Sinn Fein would become Provisional Sinn Fein and the current incarnation of Provisional Sinn Fein would become Real Sinn Fein.................

Sierra Oscar

A coalition between FF & SF is far more likely to happen before a coalition between FG & FF.

jank

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A coalition between FF & SF is far more likely to happen before a coalition between FG & FF.

Therein lies the problem with Irish politics....

MadsL

Sand wrote: »

Mammy O'Rourke? Who the hell listens to her opinions these days? .

Any RTE radio show short on a contributor?

Still at least Mammy is admitting what dismal failure FF have become. Sadly, the irish electorate seem to have short memories.

Conmaicne Mara

jank wrote: »

Therein lies the problem with Irish politics....

The only people a merger between FG and FF benefit are FF and other political bodies, particularly those on the left. It's not just of 0 benefit to FG, it would be harmful to FG.

An easier solution would be for FF to go away

bmaxi

jank wrote: »

It would be good for Ireland as it would seem to end civil war politics where the two main parties are similar in many aspects of policy. I personally think this has a very good chance of happening soon. A FG/FF coalition would get alot more done in terms of reform of the PS, Welfare and spending than the current government with Labour in the ranks.

Well, this state has been in existence for just over 90 years and FF have been in power in some form for more than 60 of them, I would think that FF are responsible for most of the corruption and malpractice in the PS and Welfare.
Any reforms carried out by them would just be tokenism, aimed at securing either an overall majority or at least the status of senior coalition partners, at which point the spots would resurface from under the camouflage. The whole raison d'etre of FF is to exert power and influence at whatever cost to the taxpayer, has that not been comprehensively displayed in the last decade?
I would think a FF/FG coalition would be nothing short of disastrous for the country, something on a par with eastern European states under the USSR.

golfwallah

Remember that in politics, as in business, today’s opponents are not enemies but potential allies.

“Alliance systems provide resources and create political opportunities; conflict systems drain resources and restrict opportunities” (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470674871.wbespm139/abstract).

There are lots of examples of former opponents becoming allies - within parties, between parties and between governments:
• Northern Ireland: Unionists & Sinn Fein
• USA:
o Hillary Clinton & Barak Obama.
o Abraham Lincoln - cabinet made of former Republican & Democrat rivals (ref: Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln)
• UK / USSR: Churchill & Stalin in WWII – once hated each other and each other’s politics but reverted to opponents after the defeat of Germany.
• UK: Liberal Democrats & Conservatives – still in power.

In the final analysis, politics is about the “art of the possible”, compromise, delivering on common objectives and finding ways to give the majority of people what they want.

“We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow” - Lord Palmerston (son of Irish peer and British Prime Minister, speaking in Parliament 1848).

bmaxi

golfwallah wrote: »

Remember that in politics, as in business, today’s opponents are not enemies but potential allies.

“Alliance systems provide resources and create political opportunities; conflict systems drain resources and restrict opportunities” (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470674871.wbespm139/abstract).

There are lots of examples of former opponents becoming allies - within parties, between parties and between governments:
• Northern Ireland: Unionists & Sinn Fein
• USA:
o Hillary Clinton & Barak Obama.
o Abraham Lincoln - cabinet made of former Republican & Democrat rivals (ref: Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln)
• UK / USSR: Churchill & Stalin in WWII – once hated each other and each other’s politics but reverted to opponents after the defeat of Germany.
• UK: Liberal Democrats & Conservatives – still in power.

In the final analysis, politics is about the “art of the possible”, compromise, delivering on common objectives and finding ways to give the majority of people what they want.

“We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow” - Lord Palmerston (son of Irish peer and British Prime Minister, speaking in Parliament 1848).

Well an oft quoted sentiment is " the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and that is the case most of the instances you allude to.
I think it is well established that FF and FG represent the same constituency and that is not the problem with a coalition of the two. What is the problem, from the point of view of the general public, is they each purport to represent a different constituency, i.e. middle Ireland, which is not the case.