Calculating Cattle Prices in your head!

WellKiiid??

This is one for you lads that buy in the mart or even regular go-ers to the mart :P

when your bidding in the ring whats going on in your head?

Say you want to buy a bullock weighing 500kg and on that day similar bullocks are making €2.17! Do you actually multiply in your head 500x2.17= €1085? Or do you just pay what you think its worth?

Coz at the minute im just paying what i thing similar animals have made previously!

Has anyone got any advice on how to better myself at calculating the price in my head?

1chippy

You have to have a plan as in a finish date, what you look for in the animal and a rough idea at guessing the weight prior to to selling or buying so that you can have your guesstimate sort of half worked out . calculator on the phone is a handy thing to use every now and then but you need to know roughly what the sort of beast your looking at is worth to you.
If your only buying a few now and then it can often be worth your while just to get a dealer them for you just let him know what you want and how much you want to spend.

agriman27

I buy a lot of weanlings. When your out buying and hittin a few marts ya get used to puttin your own value on each animal. I basically just have a figure in my head and when the animal comes in ya just stick to the price in your head. I'm only fairly new to the buyin scene and its always tough and and split second decisions but I think if your happy with what ya let of the trailer when ya get home have it at in or around the price in your head it the whole thing.:)

gctest50

WellKiiid?? wrote: »

Say you want to buy a bullock weighing 500kg and on that day similar bullocks are making €2.17! Do you actually multiply in your head 500x2.17= €1085?

Has anyone got any advice on how to better myself at calculating the price in my head?

The maths bit ?

500kg x €2.17

easier to just divide the €2.17 by 2 = €1.085 and theres your answer -ish

same for 750kg, do the above, divide the 1085 by 2 = 542.5 and add it back on again

Farmer Pudsey

It all depends on weight, breed, age, what they will gain in weight, how long before you will finish them, at what time of year they will finish. After all that are they heifers, bulls or bullocks.

My motto is unless I can see a margin someone else can have them. Then I am not turning over cattle every month. If I see a bunch of 370 kg Frx bulls in August, how long will it take to get them to an average of 580kgs will they be Fat score 2= over or under 2year old what do I think the cost will be and what do I think the final price will be.

I have to gain 210kgs. Will I get 80kgs on them with 2kgs of ration before I house. That will leave 130 to put on in the shed. At grass+2kgs they will cost around 1 euro/day(this year) if they put on 100kgs I am well ahead if like last year they struggle to gain anything I am losing. To gain 130kgs in the shed how long will it take 110 days?. This is a weight gain of nearly 1.2kgs/day. What will this cost 2.8/day. If it is mid February before I finish will they be under 2 year olds. If not I will have to hold until late May.

What will they make in Mid February 3.8/kg?? At that rate they will come into 1100 euro less cost. If I want a margin of 150 I can afford to pay 490euro ish. At 200 euro I can only pay 450, at 100 I can afford to pay 540.

But the question is can I get them to FS 2= at a KO of 290kgs and will they be less than 2 year's old. For every 10 cent above 3.8/kgs add another 29 euro and visa versa.

bob charles

whatever you do, dont but the weight, buy the animal. I have seen plenty of guys go by the wayside at this craic. Get a good look at the animal before it comes into the ring, talk to the owner if possible. the real sharp guys are able to but them as they come into the ring on first sight.

pakalasa

I was told that once by a old guy that buys a lot - Forget about the weight and look at the animal. 'Practice makes perfect' - as they say. I think you need to be in the mart a lot to have a feel for what an animal is worth. You need to spend a lot of long days standing at the ringside to pick up value for money.

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

whatever you do, dont buy the weight, buy the animal.

This is the golden nugget I'm taking with me. Cheers bob;)

nashmach

agriman27 wrote: »

have a figure in my head and when the animal comes in ya just stick to the price in your head.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

My motto is unless I can see a margin someone else can have them.

These two quotes are probably key IMV.

No point in being a busy fool.

And another thing don't mind who else is bidding, don't worry the tanglers will always have their eyes in the back of their heads.

Board, animal, auctioneer - no where else for your eyes.

bob charles

nashmach wrote: »

These two quotes are probably key IMV.

No point in being a busy fool.

And another thing don't mind who else is bidding, don't worry the tanglers will always have their eyes in the back of their heads.

Board, animal, auctioneer - no where else for your eyes.

Ah you must be as boring around the ring, you have to be eyeing the opposition and jestering "come on, take me on":D:D

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Ah you must be as boring around the ring, you have to be eyeing the opposition and jestering "come on, take me on":D:D

There must be a real knack to leaving him with the beast when you've got him bidding up beyond the value.

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

Ah you must be as boring around the ring, you have to be eyeing the opposition and jestering "come on, take me on":D:D

No, that is when you start waving your hands/finger or wagging your head vigorously.

And then when the hammer drops let a big F*** out of you

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

There must be a real knack to leaving him with the beast when you've got him bidding up beyond the value.

There is not really how often have you heard the expression from someone who overpaid for cattle ''Well that is the price of them.''

simx

freedominacup wrote: »

There must be a real knack to leaving him with the beast when you've got him bidding up beyond the value.

alot of polling matches go on in marts around here, although i will say there is one lad in new ross and any local of that area on here will probably know him is a dangerous man to be trying to leave up with a beast, hard man to read, youd swear he was going all the way then like that no more and opposition has an expensive animal, alot of lads think alot of these lads around the ring are best friends but i have seen brothers/cousins poll on eachother

nashmach

freedominacup wrote: »

There must be a real knack to leaving him with the beast when you've got him bidding up beyond the value.

Forget about that nonsense and bid your own price and so be it, you get them or don't.

Either way move on to the next lot of interest.

This polling mallarkey gives lots of lads bad names IMV and like simx I see enough of it too.

moy83

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There is not really how often have you heard the expression from someone who overpaid for cattle ''Well that is the price of them.''

Around here if you get caught paying over the odds you would usually say "sure a good one is never dear " .
I wouldnt go up against the lad with his finger left inside the ring , there are enough cattle in the country without fighting over them .

moy83

Plus if you're not a regular buyer it might be just easier to buy the cattle after the sale from the dealer/jobber . Even if you have to give him €20 or €30 on them it would probably work out cheaper than bidding against him in the ring

thetangler

moy83 wrote: »

Around here if you get caught paying over the odds you would usually say "sure a good one is never dear " .
I wouldnt go up against the lad with his finger left inside the ring , there are enough cattle in the country without fighting over them .

If you stand down for every finger you will go home empty a lot of the time :)

moy83

thetangler wrote: »

If you stand down for every finger you will go home empty a lot of the time :)

I dont mind going home empty but bringing something 50/100 more than its would really piss me off

nashmach

moy83 wrote: »

Plus if you're not a regular buyer it might be just easier to buy the cattle after the sale from the dealer/jobber . Even if you have to give him €20 or €30 on them it would probably work out cheaper than bidding against him in the ring

Every 20 euro helps though.

Sorry, I don't go with what you are saying otherwise ypu are just creating a monopoly for dealers and that us not good for trade IMV.

epfff

nashmach wrote: »

Every 20 euro helps though.

Sorry, I don't go with what you are saying otherwise ypu are just creating a monopoly for dealers and that us not good for trade IMV.

+1
refuse to deal with them answer is always if I wanted them I would have paid that in the ring

pakalasa

Ah lads, dont be intimidated by the dealers. Any of these guys with hands in the ring are all shapers and gobsh1tes. Just follow one of them out when he is loading his truck and see whay he buys. :rolleyes: 'Fook 'em. It's a free country.
Any of the real big buyers try to keep as discrete as possible.

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

Around here if you get caught paying over the odds you would usually say "sure a good one is never dear " .
I wouldnt go up against the lad with his finger left inside the ring , there are enough cattle in the country without fighting over them .

I've asked this before but could somebody please explain the advantage to our industry of allowing these jokers to operate. The only possible beneficaries of their existence (outside of themselves) are the marts and their commissions.

I know of a case where an animal that was sold from a herd in this area that was restricted shortly after it was sold a few years ago was found in Donegal. The animal had moved 13 times on a 30 day test.:eek:

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

I've asked this before but could somebody please explain the advantage to our industry of allowing these jokers to operate. The only possible beneficaries of their existence (outside of themselves) are the marts and their commissions.

I know of a case where an animal that was sold from a herd in this area that was restricted shortly after it was sold a few years ago was found in Donegal. The animal had moved 13 times on a 30 day test.:eek:

It is becoming an issue as the QA bonus is now 12c/kg this equates to 12 euro/100kg kill out. AA+HE bonus can double this and more depending on time of year. Some of these boys forget to sign the back of the card. I would be careful of buying cattle outside a mart at present especially off dealers.

An earlier post hinted at buying after a mart however that is two movements 4 is the max. I recently lost the QA on an animal he was moved from the birth farm bought by a calf dealer transfered into another herd that evening and moved again two weeks later and sold on at about 4 months most not recorded on card I bought him off a farmer that had him for 15 months.

At this stage you have to be careful buying privately unless you can see the CMS details. Bonus's and QA are a big part of the profit on an animal. At certain time in the year they can account for between 100-150 euro on AA and HE cattle. Dealers trucking cattle from one herd no to anotherare leaving an awful lot of cattle that you can lose serious money on not to mind the around the ring. I have no issue with there existance however there carry on with bucket fed cattle is an issue.

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is becoming an issue as the QA bonus is now 12c/kg this equates to 12 euro/100kg kill out. AA+HE bonus can double this and more depending on time of year. Some of these boys forget to sign the back of the card. I would be careful of buying cattle outside a mart at present especially off dealers.

An earlier post hinted at buying after a mart however that is two movements 4 is the max. I recently lost the QA on an animal he was moved from the birth farm bought by a calf dealer transfered into another herd that evening and moved again two weeks later and sold on at about 4 months most not recorded on card I bought him off a farmer that had him for 15 months.

At this stage you have to be careful buying privately unless you can see the CMS details. Bonus's and QA are a big part of the profit on an animal. At certain time in the year they can account for between 100-150 euro on AA and HE cattle. Dealers trucking cattle from one herd no to anotherare leaving an awful lot of cattle that you can lose serious money on not to mind the around the ring. I have no issue with there existance however there carry on with bucket fed cattle is an issue.

Fair enough but what purpose do they serve and what advantage are they to the industry. More than one animal disease problem has been exacerbated by their actions.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Fair enough but what purpose do they serve and what advantage are they to the industry. More than one animal disease problem has been exacerbated by their actions.

well they keep the show on the road when farmer buyers etc are missing from the business like the last few months. They basically are the same as speculators like in the grain markets. Some will say they are parasite but they are essential in a market.

I think allot of people who talk of dealer are actually constant buyers that are buying for themselves. I would think to mart I go that 70% around the ring are buying for themselves. Tanglers are usually buying the smaller animals. I have often bought many different product of middlemen for less that I could buy the product straight. So all middlemen arent the work of the devil.

Take that animal that went to Donegal, its just the free market in operation. without the dealers marts would have allot less buyers and who is this good for. Often hear on here that when people are selling they are blaming the dealers for having the price low and when they are buying they are claiming that the dealers are carrying them on and paying too much for them. Cant have it both ways

MfMan

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is becoming an issue as the QA bonus is now 12c/kg this equates to 12 euro/100kg kill out. AA+HE bonus can double this and more depending on time of year. Some of these boys forget to sign the back of the card. I would be careful of buying cattle outside a mart at present especially off dealers.

An earlier post hinted at buying after a mart however that is two movements 4 is the max. I recently lost the QA on an animal he was moved from the birth farm bought by a calf dealer transfered into another herd that evening and moved again two weeks later and sold on at about 4 months most not recorded on card I bought him off a farmer that had him for 15 months.

If you do buy off a dealer straight or shortly after a mart, insist that they contact the mart and put the animal straight into your own herd so that no 'extra movement' is incurred. They usually would be aware of this anyway.

Dealers in a sense are necessary as they create a market for cattle that may otherwise go unsold. Plus, some farmers wouldn't have the time / resources / inclination to go to marts buying for themselves and rely on dealers for stock. How scrupulous they are relies on how well you know them I suppose.

pakalasa

Dealers do benefit the market, they will always be there to pick up a good deal for themselves and so keep some stability to the market. You just have to be wary of them and how they operate. Not all bad either. A lot of decent guys there too, who value their good name.

moy83

I dont mind dealer/jobbers/ buyers . They do their thing and I do mine and if it works out for me to buy off them so be it . There are always a couple of bad eggs in every trade whether its farming , plastering or dealing in cattle .
They should be a great help to the part timer that wants five or ten cattle of the same type age and weight . They could put a gang together and drop them to your yard for little more than it would cost to pick the same bunch . I would never have time or patients to go around to different marts but yjat might be just me

Bizzum

moy83 wrote: »

I dont mind going home empty but bringing something 50/100 more than its would really piss me off

When I used to buy replacement heifers before we took to breed them, I never really minded if the right heifer was a bit dear. The right one will make it up fairly quick. It's a pain though when a good heifer doesnt breed acording to plan!

moy83

Bizzum wrote: »

When I used to buy replacement heifers before we took to breed them, I never really minded if the right heifer was a bit dear. The right one will make it up fairly quick. It's a pain though when a good heifer doesnt breed acording to plan!

Buying the right breeding heifer in the mart is hit and miss in fairness . If I was looking for breeding I would prefer to buy weanlin heifers from someone with a good herd of cows that I could see and give them the extra few pound and save them transport and mart fees if it meant I knew what I was getting

Bizzum

moy83 wrote: »

Buying the right breeding heifer in the mart is hit and miss in fairness . If I was looking for breeding I would prefer to buy weanlin heifers from someone with a good herd of cows that I could see and give them the extra few pound and save them transport and mart fees if it meant I knew what I was getting

No doubt it's hit and miss. That's why we breed em now.

moy83

Bizzum wrote: »

No doubt it's hit and miss. That's why we breed em now.

Safer road to down alright

1chippy

moy83 wrote: »

Safer road to down alright

Yeh but there can be potholes on that one too and its a lot slower getting there.

moy83

1chippy wrote: »

Yeh but there can be potholes on that one too and its a lot slower getting there.

What kind of potholes did you hit chippy ?

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

Buying the right breeding heifer in the mart is hit and miss in fairness . If I was looking for breeding I would prefer to buy weanlin heifers from someone with a good herd of cows that I could see and give them the extra few pound and save them transport and mart fees if it meant I knew what I was getting

The uncle was in our yard around 18 months ago complaining about the complete lack of Janurary born LimX/CHX heifers from dairy farms. He couldn't understand why dairy farmers weren't facilitating the suckler men by turning out a blast of these girls:rolleyes:.

moy83

freedominacup wrote: »

The uncle was in our yard around 18 months ago complaining about the complete lack of Janurary born LimX/CHX heifers from dairy farms. He couldn't understand why dairy farmers weren't facilitating the suckler men by turning out a blast of these girls:rolleyes:.

Should be written into law that ye wealthy dairy boys ought to oblige us struggling beef lads with a certain % of beef calves from yer milkers . I will go one further and say that the boys in the sunny south east should donate these calves up to the west and only after they are weaned too !!

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

Should be written into law that ye wealthy dairy boys ought to oblige us struggling beef lads with a certain % of beef calves from yer milkers . I will go one further and say that the boys in the sunny south east should donate these calves up to the west and only after they are weaned too !!

He'd have been in total agreement with the first sentence but the second one would be over his dead body unless he was getting his cut and first call.