We need increased competition in Ireland

fliball123

Hi all,

I was looking accross the various threads here and one thing is cropping up again and again. The fact that Ireland need to outlaw monopolies and open up closed off markets.

There are numerous threads about strikes from ESB to Bus Eireann..

Most of the monopolies are now getting subsidies from the tax payer which it can no longer afford.

The government need to wake up and open up areas like the transport network and other areas for privatization , this will negate the possible outcomes of strikes where companies have a monopoly. The company can still strike but johnny public will not be as affected.

This will have the effect of these companies actaully making genuine efforts to make cuts to their cost base and releasing the burden on the tax payer and driving costs for the tax payers down

Chips Lovell

Neither the ESB nor Bus Eireann have a monopoly.

Valetta

I don't get the Op's point.

As far as I can see there are no businesses or services that are not open to competition.

Perhaps they could clarify?

golfwallah

fliball123 wrote: »

Hi all,

I was looking accross the various threads here and one thing is cropping up again and again. The fact that Ireland need to outlaw monopolies and open up closed off markets.

There are numerous threads about strikes from ESB to Bus Eireann..

Most of the monopolies are now getting subsidies from the tax payer which it can no longer afford.

The government need to wake up and open up areas like the transport network and other areas for privatization , this will negate the possible outcomes of strikes where companies have a monopoly. The company can still strike but johnny public will not be as affected.

This will have the effect of these companies actaully making genuine efforts to make cuts to their cost base and releasing the burden on the tax payer and driving costs for the tax payers down

Many of these state owned and former state owned companies are no longer monopolies.

Not putting words in your mouth, but I think you mean these public sector companies have significant market dominance, still have unacceptably high running costs (despite growing competition) and can cause significant harm to the economy in the event of industrial action.

Hence the need for government regulation of their respective markets (e.g. telecoms, broadcasting, public transport and soon, water).

Change is happening ... but, alas, very slowly.

thebman

They also need to tackle the cartel like way state subsidised companies kill off competition when they are asked to compete:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58420766&postcount=1

ardmacha

The real problem is not State companies, but private ones. Why are prices higher here than other places? Why are mobile costs an order of magnitude higher than the lowest in the EU? This is not the fault of the State, we are one of the lower taxed jurisdictions. If competition could be encouraged and prices reduced to EU levels then Dublin Bus workers would be less concerned about their wages being cut when prices are rising.

Cookie_Monster

BE are a virtual monopoly in many of the areas they operate, just because there is some competition on trunk routes shouldn't blind people to them not being in such a position.
ESB less so but Bord Gais certainly are in the water market now. Irish Rail is also a monopoly

ardmacha wrote: »

The real problem is not State companies, but private ones. Why are prices higher here than other places? Why are mobile costs an order of magnitude higher than the lowest in the EU? This is not the fault of the State, we are one of the lower taxed jurisdictions. If competition could be encouraged and prices reduced to EU levels then Dublin Bus workers would be less concerned about their wages being cut when prices are rising.

lack of competition due to the small market size and the huge costs of doing business in Ireland thanks in the main to gov driven bureaucracy. Employment costs are high, business rates are high, VAT is high, cost of compliance is high, rent (not relevant to government) is high. It all adds up and has to be allowed for in prices.

ardmacha

lack of competition due to the small market size and the huge costs of doing business in Ireland thanks in the main to gov driven bureaucracy. Employment costs are high, business rates are high, VAT is high, cost of compliance is high, rent (not relevant to government) is high. It all adds up and has to be allowed for in prices.

Small market size does not explain why countries of similar size do not have such price distortions. Employment costs are not especially high, social contributions and the like are lower than in many places. VAT is within the range of European counties. And of course corporation tax is lower than most places. Where is the evidence that the cost of compliance is higher than other places?

AlmightyCushion

ardmacha wrote: »

Small market size does not explain why countries of similar size do not have such price distortions. Employment costs are not especially high, social contributions and the like are lower than in many places. VAT is within the range of European counties. And of course corporation tax is lower than most places. Where is the evidence that the cost of compliance is higher than other places?

We have a low population density so an operator would have to have more masts to cover the same percentage of population as another country. Low population density would also increase the cost of backhaul for the masts. 3G was introduced in 2000 or later. 3G has poorer penetration than 2G does so would require more masts. In the 2000s, property prices were increasing so cost of renting land for masts probably skyrocketed as well.

3 Ireland has never made a cent of profit here, while 3UK made nearly £90m of profit for the first half of 2013. We actually have decent competition here. Tesco mobile, Three, Meteor, 48 etc. provide some great deals relative to O2 and Vodafone who are rip off merchants. The problem is that Vodafone and O2 still command a huge percentage of the market because of customer inertia or ignorance. If more people kept an eye on their bills and looked for better deals it would force O2 and Vodafone to compete as they bled customers which would encourage 48, Tesco, Three, Meteor, etc. to lower prices to keep their edge.

mariaalice

He is an interesting way to know if competition is working really working in some areas of the state.

Having a pharmacy/being a pharmacist use to be a very lucrative business in Ireland. There was all sorts of arcane restrictions on who could own a pharmacy and where a pharmacy could open. That was in effect done away with and suddenly you had the likes of the doc Morris chain etc. opening here, there began to real competition here, lo and behold the application's to the cao to do pharmacy has dropped this year. That how you will know competition in the professions is working.

Dentists are being nibble at too, I know some one who git a quote for some work that was a full 75% cheaper that the same work would have cost 5 years ago.

mariaalice

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

We have a low population density so an operator would have to have more masts to cover the same percentage of population as another country. Low population density would also increase the cost of backhaul for the masts. 3G was introduced in 2000 or later. 3G has poorer penetration than 2G does so would require more masts. In the 2000s, property prices were increasing so cost of renting land for masts probably skyrocketed as well.

3 Ireland has never made a cent of profit here, while 3UK made nearly £90m of profit for the first half of 2013. We actually have decent competition here. Tesco mobile, Three, Meteor, 48 etc. provide some great deals relative to O2 and Vodafone who are rip off merchants. The problem is that Vodafone and O2 still command a huge percentage of the market because of customer inertia or ignorance. If more people kept an eye on their bills and looked for better deals it would force O2 and Vodafone to compete as they bled customers which would encourage 48, Tesco, Three, Meteor, etc. to lower prices to keep their edge.

Something similar occurred to me when the government was discussing bring in a Dutch style health services to Ireland I couldn't understand how the they did not see the glaring fact the Holland is highly densely populated and mostly urban or near urban and in that situation it is much cheaper to provide services. It is very expensive to provide public health nursing for example when half your clients live in a isolated rural areas and you have to go down a back road up a 2kl track and then up a boreen at the side of a mountain to see them.

hfallada

The problem is the people on the boards of these companies. Generally after an election the people that are put on these boards, are the people who have helped TDs get elected. Meaning you have people who have no idea how a business is run making deceisions relating to the business such as fare increases etc. The government should put experienced business people on these companies and no their friends.

Also their wages should be set to the performance of the company. If you worked in a company that continued to lose more and more money you would have a pay cut or be fired. But in state companies to get to remain in the company.

Celticfire

hfallada wrote: »

Also their wages should be set to the performance of the company. If you worked in a company that continued to lose more and more money you would have a pay cut or be fired. But in state companies to get to remain in the company.

Totally agree, they should be just like The Banks, when they are loosing money the Execs get fired and receive no bonuses ......no wait..

spank_inferno

Celticfire wrote: »

Totally agree, they should be just like The Banks, when they are loosing money the Execs get fired and receive no bonuses ......no wait..

Irrelevent comparing staff & executives.

Staff in the financial services have faced massive changes.

Staff numbers have declined, work has not.

(personal example being my spouse now working 9am - 7pm each day, to cover staff shortages.... No overtime paid & works through every lunch.)

Gumbo

spank_inferno wrote: »

(personal example being my spouse now working 9am - 7pm each day, to cover staff shortages.... No overtime paid & works through every lunch.)

Is that against the Working Time Act?

maninasia

mariaalice wrote: »

Something similar occurred to me when the government was discussing bring in a Dutch style health services to Ireland I couldn't understand how the they did not see the glaring fact the Holland is highly densely populated and mostly urban or near urban and in that situation it is much cheaper to provide services. It is very expensive to provide public health nursing for example when half your clients live in a isolated rural areas and you have to go down a back road up a 2kl track and then up a boreen at the side of a mountain to see them.

Holland is not the only country with a comprehensive national insurance system, you can adapt the system to each country's local needs.

green_bow

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Neither the ESB nor Bus Eireann have a monopoly.

ESB has a monopoly , on infrastructure , when was the last time after a storm you saw a bord gais or airtricity van heading up the road with a bunch of repair men

same deal with eircom , they control the infrastructure when it comes to telecom


both get a piece of the pie in some shape or form even your with bord gais and Vodafone

n97 mini

kceire wrote: »

Is that against the Working Time Act?

Most private sector companies don't operate a clock system, and therefore any breaches of the WTA are not recorded. I recently did 3 x 80 hour weeks to get a project out the door for no extra money.

L1011

n97 mini wrote: »

Most private sector companies don't operate a clock system, and therefore any breaches of the WTA are not recorded. I recently did 3 x 80 hour weeks to get a project out the door for no extra money.

And those few that do generally only use it as a punitive measure while still having "no overtime" policies.

Overtime and 40 hour weeks are the preserve of semi-states and semi-states alone at this stage really - neither private sector or civil service gets that.