beef is always tough?

positivenote

Hi All,
any time i try and roast some round beef it always turns out fairly tough and over done... im cooking up a 1.1kg piece on thursday and was hoping to get some advice on getting it roasted nicely as it'll be for someone whose home from abroad and they haven't had a proper roast in years. Any advice would be welcomed as well as tips on doing yorkshire puds aswell as ive never tried them before and would love to not have to do the frozen ones.
thanks

Kerikosan

For Roast beef follow these temperature Guide lines

Rare - 50 degrees
Medium rare - 54 degrees
Medium - 60 degrees
Medium Well - 65 degrees
Well Done- 70 degrees

When you rest a roast it will raise between 3-6 degrees in the next 5-10 Minuets (depending on their size shape and weight) it's best to rest Roast meat for at least 10 minuets or if it is a Beef Steak 1/2 of the steaks cooking time it should also rest.

For accuracy a thermometer should be used if your not sure on the different stages of a meat's doneness.

You should trim a joint up before you season it and tie it with string
(this can be done by your butcher) There are plenty of good Roasting joints for Beef - Eye of round, Cross rib, Tenderloin, Chateaubriand, Standing rib roast. if your not sure ask your butcher and he will recommend different cuts suitable and at different budgets.

Sear your Joint in a hot pan on all sides with oil and butter. place in a roasting tin and in the oven at 230 degrees for 20 minuets then turn the heat down to 150 degrees for about 1 1/4 hours or until the thermometer reads 54 degrees for medium rare. (or more if you like) take out the roast and place on a warmed platter and cover it with foil and rest the meat for 30 minuets.
you can then keep the fat from the roasting tin aside for Yorkshires & deglaze the roasting tin with a small splash of red wine reduce and add good Beef stock & the roast beef juices (skimmed and separated from the fat) and reduce and then thicken with either Cornstarch mix / Beurre Manié (butter and flour mixed together) or make a roux and then add the beef stock and juices slowly while whisking for your gravy.

Yorkshire Pudding recipe
3 extra Large Eggs
375ml Whole Milk
235g Plain Flour
Sea Salt
Freshly ground pepper
Mix all well in a blender till smooth
Beef Fat / Dripping from the roast

Pour the Fat/dripping into a muffin pan 1 tsp in each heat in hot oven until hot (5 mins) be careful and pour in the batter 4 table spoons or 1/2 to 3/4 of the way depending on the size of your muffin pan 220 degrees for about 30 minuets. serve warm.

the beer revolu

Top notch advice above but no matter what procedure you follow, round roast will always be dry and pretty tough.
Follow above advice in full including the recommendation regarding cuts (except the eye of the round bit) .
Good beef is rarely cheap beef - go to a good butcher.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Honey-ec

Kerikosan wrote: »

For Roast beef follow these temperature Guide lines

Rare - 50 degrees
Medium rare - 54 degrees
Medium - 60 degrees
Medium Well - 65 degrees
Well Done- 70 degrees

Just to clarify, in case it's not clear to everyone, they're the internal temperatures the meat should reach, not the cooking temperatures.

Personally, I think the most important aspect of cooking a good roast is to let the joint come to room temperature before cooking - don't just fire it straight from the fridge into the oven.

For rare/medium I'd go with the oven at 220C for the first 20 minutes, then turn the heat down to 160C and roast for another 20 minutes per 450g (1 lb) for rare or 25 min per kg for medium.

When it's done, take it out, cover loosely with tinfoil and two tea-towels and let it rest for at least 10 minutes before carving.

Dizzyblonde

Rib roast is far superior to round - it has a marbling of fat that melts away during cooking and that makes it really tender and flavoursome. It does need long slow cooking like round roast - you'd have to buy the dearer cuts if you wanted to serve your roast rare.
I've found round roast to be very good if I cook it in the slow cooker and then finish it off in the oven for 20 minutes or so.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

the beer revolu

daveirl wrote: »

I used to do this but now have started to do it the other way around with good results. As per this http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/the-food-lab-how-to-cook-roast-a-perfect-prime-rib.html

I love that article.
Makes so much sense.

dharma200

I would invest 30 quid in a slow cooker, and slow cook it. Makes any cut of meat tneder and yummy.

pwurple

Round roast is never going to be tender with short cooking times. Low and slow for that cut of meat.

Rib is what you need for tender roast with the times above.

positivenote

thanks for the advice so far. My mam brought over a round roast last night that she got in dunnes so that will be what gets cooked. Its just over 1kg, what times and temps do people reckon if I was to slow roast it in the oven, as i don't have a slow cooker.
Cheers

the beer revolu

positivenote wrote: »

thanks for the advice so far. My mam brought over a round roast last night that she got in dunnes so that will be what gets cooked. Its just over 1kg, what times and temps do people reckon if I was to slow roast it in the oven, as i don't have a slow cooker.
Cheers

There is no way to make that cut tender and juicy.
Go to a good butcher and buy a nice rib roast and I'm sure they'd oblige you by mincing your round roast for you to make spag bol or chilli.

Mam isn't always right when it comes to cooking.;)

positivenote

okay so, ive gone out to the butchers and got a piece of rib roast on the bone (2,2kg) and im looking at tips on how to get the best out of it. As i say its for tomorrow night and I have all day tomorrow around the house to get it cooked.
all responses are really appreciated
Thanks

the beer revolu

positivenote wrote: »

okay so, ive gone out to the butchers and got a piece of rib roast on the bone (2,2kg) and im looking at tips on how to get the best out of it. As i say its for tomorrow night and I have all day tomorrow around the house to get it cooked.
all responses are really appreciated
Thanks

Good for you!
Take it out of the fridge an hour before you want to cook it.
Season it all over with salt and pepper.
Pre heat oven to about 230 deg C.
Put in oven, uncovered in a roasting pan for 25 minutes.
Turn oven down to 160 deg C and cook for a further 44 minutes (rare), 66 minutes (medium), 88 minutes (well done).
Take out of oven and leave to rest covered with tinfoil and a couple of towels for 20 minutes.
Carve and serve.

There are other methods, timings and temperatures but the above works for me.
No harm in slicing an onion into a few chunky rings and sitting the meat on top of them so the hot air can circulate under the meat.

positivenote

the beer revolu wrote: »

Good for you!

Pre heat oven to about 230 deg C.
Put in oven, uncovered in a roasting pan for 25 minutes.
Turn oven down to 160 deg C and cook for a further 44 minutes (rare), 66 minutes (medium), 88 minutes (well done).
Take out of oven and leave to rest covered with tinfoil and a couple of towels for 20 minutes.
Carve and serve.

.

thanks
should I seal it in a hot pan first for colour or is there a need to?

the beer revolu

positivenote wrote: »

thanks
should I seal it in a hot pan first for colour or is there a need to?

You could do but the blast in the hot oven at the start should take care of that.

K-9

positivenote wrote: »

thanks
should I seal it in a hot pan first for colour or is there a need to?

I'd always seal it first, I just love my Roasts that way. Use Rape seed oil if you can and on a high heat, Olive Oil and Butter can't withstand the high heat. I'd tend to turn my meat down to 140 which is quiet low, more succulent.

+1 on Onions below a roast.

MadsL

Sous-vide it. Mine always comes out like prime fillet. I have a sous vide supreme water oven but it can be done like this. Longer is better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFTyb5QEb2E

K-9

I don't expect to do DIY to cook! The labradors were cute though.

MadsL

K-9 wrote: »

I don't expect to do DIY to cook! The labradors were cute though.

Then buy a sous-vide machine
The sous-vide is the best kitchen appliance I have ever bought.

It can turn flank, skirt, round - pretty much any cut that you would normally have to stew or tenderise in some way into prime steak. Unbelievably tender.

It means not spending crazy money for expensive cuts and cheap short rib for instance becomes as succulent as baby back ribs.

You also get to cut the amount of time you spend preparing, basting, checking, seasoning. Dry rub, drop it in the bag with bacon fat or butter and some fresh herbs and go relax for 3-72 hours

The payback by buying cheaper meats is 1-2 years.

Minder

MadsL wrote: »

Then buy a sous-vide machine
The sous-vide is the best kitchen appliance I have ever bought.

It can turn flank, skirt, round - pretty much any cut that you would normally have to stew or tenderise in some way into prime steak. Unbelievably tender.

It means not spending crazy money for expensive cuts and cheap short rib for instance becomes as succulent as baby back ribs.

You also get to cut the amount of time you spend preparing, basting, checking, seasoning. Dry rub, drop it in the bag with bacon fat or butter and some fresh herbs and go relax for 3-72 hours

The payback by buying cheaper meats is 1-2 years.

A sous vide machine? Do you mean a digital waterbath?

A waterbath doesn't turn shoe leather into prime fillet, all it does is make the cooking process consistent. So if you like rare shoe leather, buy a waterbath.

Mass produced cuts of silverside, topside and round are devoid of any fat or collagen. Fat is required to keep the meat from drying out in the cooking process. Collagen breaks down to liquid gelatin. Both will keep a cheap piece piece of beef from drying out. A tight grained piece of topside of beef that is devoid of fat and collagen will cook in a waterbath (or sous-vide machine) at 52c for hours and be rare cooked; but the heat will only denature the protein, it has no fat to work on and no collagen. Result is a perfectly cooked tough piece of rare beef.

I would rather buy a better quality piece of meat.

MadsL

Minder wrote: »

A sous vide machine? Do you mean a digital waterbath?

I actually meant a machine under the brand name of Sous-Vide (Sous-Vide Supreme for eaxmple) - I'm aware that sous-vide is the 'under pressure' method of vacuum sealing and the water bath is the cooking tool. However, sous-vide is the more comment parlance for the cooking rather than the sealing.

A waterbath doesn't turn shoe leather into prime fillet, all it does is make the cooking process consistent. So if you like rare shoe leather, buy a waterbath.

Nonsense. Long slow cooking times aid both the conversion of collagen to gelatin, and you can also use a water bath to stimulate enzymatic tenderization activity of calpain and cathepsin enzymes within the meat.

Mass produced cuts of silverside, topside and round are devoid of any fat. Fat is required to keep the meat from drying out in the cooking process. A tight grained piece of topside of beef that is devoid of fat will cook in a waterbath (or sous-vide machine) at 52c for hours and be rare cooked; but the heat will only denature the protein, it has no fat to work on. Result is a perfectly cooked tough piece of rare beef.

But it will also break down the connective tissue (collagen) into soft gelatin resulting in a disintegration of the muscle (fork soft piece of meat) and there is also the fact that you are unlikely to break down the Actin proteins at that temperature (whilst denaturing Myosin at the lower temperatures) which seem to be more flavourful to us.

I would rather buy a better quality piece of meat.

Feel free to waste your own money.

Tell me, have you actually ever cooked beef in a water bath?

Minder

....and when there is no collagen in your cheap cut of beef, will your waterbath magically change it?

MadsL

Minder wrote: »

....and when there is no collagen in your cheap cut of beef, will your waterbath magically change it?

I'm yet to see a piece of meat with no connective tissue. How would the muscle fibres remain together in the animal?

MadsL

With no collagen and no fat, cooking such cuts of meat at a low temperature in a waterbath simply denatures the protein to the extent that the meat is rare. It remains tough as old boots.

Can I ask you again the two questions you haven't answered.

1. Whilst topside is a lean cut, what holds the fibres together in a piece of meat so that the strands of muscle do not simply fall apart? Collagen is in not?

2. What experience do you have cooking tougher cuts of meat in a waterbath? Do you own one? What cut and cooking method did you personally prepare to draw this conclusion?


Edit: Why did you delete your post?

Minder

...pictures didn't load...

I've cooked a lot with a waterbath. I own a Grant digital waterbath and have a small Multivac chamber vacuum machine. I use the waterbath frequently, it makes the best confit of duck.

Collagen holds the muscle fibres together and there is collagen present between the small fibres that are bundled together to makes larger fibres that in turn make whole muscles. That's the biology of muscle. In terms of cooking, we look for discernable marbling and distinct connective tissue such as in shin of beef. Such cuts do well with long slow cooking. That can be mimicked with sous-vide. Lower temperature and longer cooking will break down the large collagen structures giving a gelatinous quality to the finished dish.

I use a waterbath to cook all steaks nowadays. It's consistent and produces excellent results. I've also tried short ribs (meh!), brisket and topside. The topside was as I previously described. I was angry with myself for believing that a cheap cut such as it was would be transformed. It was rare shoe leather.

Best results to date are lamb shoulder following a recipe from The British Larder, the duck legs and a boned and rolled turkey ballotine based on an idea by Daniel Clifford from a chicken recipe on the Great British Menu.

To replicate the sous vide effect, beef can be cooked in a low temperature oven wrapped in tinfoil. John Campbell has a recipe for it on the BBC using fillet of beef, here. I tried it some years ago with fillet and it convinced me to buy the sous vide set-up. I also tried it with topside. Posted about it here. Was tough then and has been tough any time I tried it since then.

MadsL

Minder wrote: »

...pictures didn't load...

Care to answer my other questions?

Minder

What other questions? I've answered both of your questions in my post above. I have a sous-vide set-up for three years. I use it a lot. My experience of cooking cheap cuts for anything from 48 to 72 hours results in perfectly rare or medium rare beef that is still tough.

Since it is possible to reasonable replicate the conditions in a low temperature oven, the OP should try cooking a tougher cut like round or topside following John Campbell's recipe. If they are happy with the result, then consider buying a waterbath.

What set-up do you have?

catho_monster

Minder wrote: »

I've cooked a lot with a waterbath. I own a Grant digital waterbath and have a small Multivac chamber vacuum machine.

Would you recommend that Multivac machine? My machine (can't remember the brand) is woeful and need to get a different one...

MadsL

Minder wrote: »

What other questions? I've answered both of your questions in my post above.

Ah now Editing your post after I asked you to answer the questions and then making out that you already answered them is a bit cheeky. Read the timestamps.

I have a sous-vide set-up for three years. I use it a lot. My experience of cooking cheap cuts for anything from 48 to 72 hours results in perfectly rare or medium rare beef that is still tough.

What set-up do you have?

Your set up looks amazing I have nothing like the four figure setup and would kill for a chamber vac. I'm still in consumer sous vide supreme territory and cheap suction sealer. I may consider a second machine which would definately be a recirculator style for portability and flexibility in cooking vessel. The wife was unwilling for me to spend too much as she was unconvinced at first, now definitely a convert.

Is it possible that over seasoning (too much salt) is also toughening the meat in the water bath cooking process for something like topside?

I also haven't tried this yet, but accelerated 'warm-aging' could be interesting in getting enzymes to go to work on that shoe leather.
http://stefangourmet.com/2012/02/27/sous-vide-to-the-next-level-tenderizing-beef-by-warm-ageing/

Since it is possible to reasonable replicate the conditions in a low temperature oven, the OP should try cooking a tougher cut like round or topside following John Campbell's recipe. If they are happy with the result, then consider buying a waterbath.

I don't tend to cook topside much as there is just two of us, but flank comes out just beautiful for me after 24 hrs.

Minder

catho_monster wrote: »

Would you recommend that Multivac machine? My machine (can't remember the brand) is woeful and need to get a different one...

Its a great piece of kit, but cost me a small fortune. I use it for the sous-vide
cooking but its also great for prolonging the life of home cooked freezer food. There is no freezer burn or ice build up on vacuum sealed food. Its great for large volume sauces. We vac seal bolognase then flatten the bags before stacking in the freezer. They defrost a lot quicker too.