Bailout

Dirty_welly

Just a quick question, at any stage of our economic down turn was there talk of maybe some help from the united states in the form of a bailout package ?

_Kaiser_

I doubt it.. being part of the EU would have precluded that unless it was a general EU-wide package, plus the US had/has it's own problems as well don't forget.

I can see the logic of where you're going through given our reliance on US investment and multinationals for employment, but being part of the Euro/EU means we don't get to make decisions like that anymore.

I stand to be corrected though..

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Dirty_welly wrote: »

Just a quick question, at any stage of our economic down turn was there talk of maybe some help from the united states in the form of a bailout package ?

No there wasn't. In fact, I think some US Republicans wanted the US to oppose IMF assistance to all EU "bailout" member states as: a) they didn't want the US to have to contribute (additional) money to the IMF and b) they regarded it as an "internal EU" matter.

Noreen1

Help?

Not unless you consider Timothy Geithner vetoing any chance of a debt writedown by the IMF as helpful!

There have been reports that the IMF wanted a debt writedown for Ireland until Geithner intervened.

antoobrien

Dirty_welly wrote: »

Just a quick question, at any stage of our economic down turn was there talk of maybe some help from the united states in the form of a bailout package ?

Not a bailout per say, but the fed did help keep the banks above water. There were (then) secret loans from the fed to AIB & BOI in 2009-10. These seem to have been it appears that they were the kind of short term funding that the ECB generally provides to banks, totalling about $11.5bn over a one year period (they averaged $1.8bn & $500m outstanding at any time).

Dirty_welly

antoobrien wrote: »

Not a bailout per say, but the fed did help keep the banks above water. There were (then) secret loans from the fed to AIB & BOI in 2009-10. These seem to have been it appears that they were the kind of short term funding that the ECB generally provides to banks, totalling about $11.5bn over a one year period (they averaged $1.8bn & $500m outstanding at any time).

good man anto do you have a link for that

antoobrien

Dirty_welly wrote: »

good man anto do you have a link for that

it's in the quote

Scofflaw

Slightly more detail here: http://www.bloomberg.com/data-visualization/federal-reserve-emergency-lending/#/overview/?sort=nomPeakValue&group=none&view=peak&position=1218.7571974808816&comparelist=Governor_%26_Co_of_the_Bank_of_Ireland&search=

However, the headline figures suffer from the usual journalistic desire to make larger numbers by adding up rolling loans to make a single large figure. Lending someone €100m on a rolling overnight basis (that is, lending in the evening, being repaid in the morning) every night for a year is not the same as lending someone €36.5bn, but that is invariably how journalists present the figures.

It's more accurate, in this case, to consider the largest or average outstanding amounts as the relevant figures, and those were very much smaller than the dramatic figures quoted by journalists. The loan figures used to be available themselves directly from the New York Federal Reserve Bank, which ran the program in question, but no longer seem to be so, although more recent figures are.

This is from my own copy of the Fed tables, for AIB:

Loan date|Maturity date|Term|Lending Federal Reserve District|Borrower|Borrower city|Borrower state|Loan amount|Interest rate
Jul 2 2009|Jul 30 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,600.0|0.250
Jul 30 2009|Aug 27 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,500.0|0.250
Aug 27 2009|Sep 24 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,300.0|0.250
Sep 10 2009|Dec 3 2009|84|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,100.0|0.250
Sep 24 2009|Oct 22 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,300.0|0.250
Oct 22 2009|Nov 19 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|2,000.0|0.250
Nov 19 2009|Dec 17 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,000.0|0.250
Dec 3 2009|Jan 14 2010|42|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|2,000.0|0.250
Dec 17 2009|Jan 14 2010|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|750.0|0.250
Jan 14 2010|Feb 11 2010|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,800.0|0.250
Feb 11 2010|Mar 11 2010|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,800.0|0.250

As you can see, the maximum loan is €3.6bn, but there's a rolling set of them.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dirty_welly

Dirty_welly wrote: »

good man anto do you have a link for that

sorry

Dirty_welly

Scofflaw wrote: »

Slightly more detail here: http://www.bloomberg.com/data-visualization/federal-reserve-emergency-lending/#/overview/?sort=nomPeakValue&group=none&view=peak&position=1218.7571974808816&comparelist=Governor_%26_Co_of_the_Bank_of_Ireland&search=

However, the headline figures suffer from the usual journalistic desire to make larger numbers by adding up rolling loans to make a single large figure. Lending someone €100m on a rolling overnight basis (that is, lending in the evening, being repaid in the morning) every night for a year is not the same as lending someone €36.5bn, but that is invariably how journalists present the figures.

It's more accurate, in this case, to consider the largest or average outstanding amounts as the relevant figures, and those were very much smaller than the dramatic figures quoted by journalists. The loan figures used to be available themselves directly from the New York Federal Reserve Bank, which ran the program in question, but no longer seem to be so, although more recent figures are.

This is from my own copy of the Fed tables, for AIB:

Loan date|Maturity date|Term|Lending Federal Reserve District|Borrower|Borrower city|Borrower state|Loan amount|Interest rate
Jul 2 2009|Jul 30 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,600.0|0.250
Jul 30 2009|Aug 27 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,500.0|0.250
Aug 27 2009|Sep 24 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,300.0|0.250
Sep 10 2009|Dec 3 2009|84|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,100.0|0.250
Sep 24 2009|Oct 22 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|3,300.0|0.250
Oct 22 2009|Nov 19 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|2,000.0|0.250
Nov 19 2009|Dec 17 2009|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,000.0|0.250
Dec 3 2009|Jan 14 2010|42|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|2,000.0|0.250
Dec 17 2009|Jan 14 2010|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|750.0|0.250
Jan 14 2010|Feb 11 2010|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,800.0|0.250
Feb 11 2010|Mar 11 2010|28|New York (2)|ALLIED IRISH BKS NY BR|NEW YORK|NY|1,800.0|0.250

As you can see, the maximum loan is €3.6bn, but there's a rolling set of them.

cordially,
Scofflaw

thanks very much thats about as detailed as it gets thanks again Scofflaw

realitykeeper

Dirty_welly wrote: »

Just a quick question, at any stage of our economic down turn was there talk of maybe some help from the united states in the form of a bailout package ?

The IMF is a stooge of the US government