Luas Fine :(

Sefirah

I was fined on the Luas today and am really upset about it because I honestly didn't realise I was in the wrong...

I bought a return ticket from zone 1 to 4 this morning. I then travelled from zone 1 to 3, during which an inspector punched my ticket. After attending several interviews in Kylemore (zone 3) I proceeded to zone 4. On this journey another inspector stopped me and fined me, saying that I was not entitled to reboard the Luas, despite the fact that I had not reached the stated destination on the ticket. He confiscated my return ticket and I had to buy a single ticket to return home from zone 4 to zone 1.

I am really upset by this fine because I paid for the entire journey which I travelled. I use the Luas on a daily basis and would usually get a 7 day ticket, but didn't this week because I'll be heading home to visit family for the long weekend. I have never been on the Luas without a ticket and am currently unemployed, and as it stands this fine will take 1/3 of my weekly unemployment allowance, which I really can't afford right now...

I've appealed to the Luas but am really worrying about it now... has anyone had any experience of such a situation?

Daemos

Once you stepped off at your zone 3 destination that was the end of your journey, doesn't matter that you paid for an extra leg, you elected not to use it and should have bought a new ticket for the next leg of the journey

It's a stupid system, and it sucks that it costs so much to be honest and follow that system, but that's how it works

Consider it a learning experience, pay the fine and move on

Cilar

Daemos wrote: »

Once you stepped off at your zone 3 destination that was the end of your journey, doesn't matter that you paid for an extra leg, you elected not to use it and should have bought a new ticket for the next leg of the journey

It's a stupid system, and it sucks that it costs so much to be honest and follow that system, but that's how it works

Consider it a learning experience, pay the fine and move on

a 'learning experience' to a stupid system? it's clearly a form of rip off

dowlingm

I don't see why LUAS is taking a beating here. Breaking your journey is an exception in Irish public transport, not a rule. I think only IE Intercity allows it?

Some places have a "time based transfer" which allows people to reboard after a brief period but I suspect the time involved in "several interviews" would exceed that.

Terrontress

I suppose the one day flexi ticket would have fitted the bill here.

The whole thing is a pain op. I'll probably add nothing to the thread by pointing out that, as you were attired for an interview rather than a methadone clinic, you were ripe pickings.

NinjaTruncs

I believe yiu need to reach your destination within 90 minutes or your ticket becomes invalid. So you could but a ticket not use it and then be fined when you eventually do use it.

Sorry OP but Luas have done nothing wrong here and this one is all on you

Chattastrophe!

Isn't there a rule that the first journey on a return ticket has to be completed within 90 minutes of purchasing the ticket?

lau1247

Tlachtga wrote: »

Isn't there a rule that the first journey on a return ticket has to be completed within 90 minutes of purchasing the ticket?

http://www.luas.ie/single-and-return-tickets.html

No Pants

Is there any reason why breaks are not permitted? Do the tickets have to be tagged on/off?

Sefirah

Terrontress wrote: »

I suppose the one day flexi ticket would have fitted the bill here.

The whole thing is a pain op. I'll probably add nothing to the thread by pointing out that, as you were attired for an interview rather than a methadone clinic, you were ripe pickings.

That's the really frustrating thing... I see that I was in the wrong (now.. :S) but I was sitting across the way from a really dodgy looking couple who, upon seeing the inspectors boarding the luas, started deliberating whether they should make a run for it or not (clearly had no ticket). And there was me like a fool thinking my ticket was perfectly acceptable and gave it to him, while the couple were passed over. There's a clear distinction being made between 'problematic' passengers and those who are likely to not only accept the fine but provide ID and the correct address :S

foggy_lad

No Pants wrote: »

Is there any reason why breaks are not permitted? Do the tickets have to be tagged on/off?

It is a single ticket for one single journey which is start point and destination. there are other day tickets for those who need to make stops along the line.

TheChrisD

lau1247 wrote: »

http://www.luas.ie/single-and-return-tickets.html

I don't want to be pedantic, but since the sentence "No breaks in journey are permitted" is posted after a sentence about single tickets; but before sentences about return tickets, maybe there's a slight chance that the rule only applies to single tickets.

Clutching at straws here yes, but you never know when a minor technicality like that will save you.

lau1247

TheChrisD wrote: »

I don't want to be pedantic, but since the sentence "No breaks in journey are permitted" is posted after a sentence about single tickets; but before sentences about return tickets, maybe there's a slight chance that the rule only applies to single tickets.

Clutching at straws here yes, but you never know when a minor technicality like that will save you.

No chance, you are indeed clutching at straws. Selective reading will not help the case.. lets read on more shall we?

"Return tickets are valid for outward and return travel on day of issue only. The first trip has to be completed within 90 mins from time of issue."

I think that says it all.. you can probably take break but has to be within 90 mins which the OP probably didn't meet the criteria

JimsAlterEgo

lau1247 wrote: »

No chance, you are indeed clutching at straws. Selective reading will not help the case.. lets read on more shall we?

"Return tickets are valid for outward and return travel on day of issue only. The first trip has to be completed within 90 mins from time of issue."

I think that says it all.. you can probably take break but has to be within 90 mins which the OP probably didn't meet the criteria

If the OPS journey 2nd trip had been within the 90s misn I actually think they would have a case reading the T&Cs

Triangla

On website:

"Single and Return Tickets don’t require any Photo Identity Card. There is no student fare applicable for Single and Return tickets. Single tickets are valid 90 mins from time of issue, for one trip only. No breaks in journey are permitted. Return tickets are valid for outward and return travel on day of issue only. The first trip has to be completed within 90 mins from time of issue. Tickets available to purchase from Ticket Machines. Children aged 3 to 15 benefit from reduced fares. Children under the age of 3 can travel free on Luas but must be accompanied by a paying passenger."

I think there is room for misinterpretation here. Appeal and let them know how you thought you were correct as per their website.

In fairness it seems as if the only restriction on return tickets from reading the above is that the first trip has to be completed within 90 mins of issue.

If you got a return from 1 to 4, then on the way back walked from 1 to 3, got on at 3 to 4 I would presume you would be ok to do this. How can inspectors police people getting on at later stages unless

1) They see the person get off and back on
2) The person admits it

There was a case where a girl was prevented from reboarding: http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/girl-15-wins-5k-in-luas-ticket-row-27965325.html

Fratton Fred

He took you (valid) return ticket off you so you had to pay again? I would complain about that.

dixiefly

Op, did the inspector just go straight by the dodgy looking couple?

I would suggest that you supplement your appeal with any evidence you have showing that you always buy a ticket. It might or might not help your case.

Tarabuses

Sefirah wrote: »

That's the really frustrating thing... I see that I was in the wrong (now.. :S) but I was sitting across the way from a really dodgy looking couple who, upon seeing the inspectors boarding the luas, started deliberating whether they should make a run for it or not (clearly had no ticket). And there was me like a fool thinking my ticket was perfectly acceptable and gave it to him, while the couple were passed over. There's a clear distinction being made between 'problematic' passengers and those who are likely to not only accept the fine but provide ID and the correct address :S

What do you mean by "the couple were passed over"? I thought the inspectors checked all passengers not just a sample?

Tarabuses

Triangla wrote: »

On website:

"Single and Return Tickets don’t require any Photo Identity Card. There is no student fare applicable for Single and Return tickets. Single tickets are valid 90 mins from time of issue, for one trip only. No breaks in journey are permitted. Return tickets are valid for outward and return travel on day of issue only. The first trip has to be completed within 90 mins from time of issue. Tickets available to purchase from Ticket Machines. Children aged 3 to 15 benefit from reduced fares. Children under the age of 3 can travel free on Luas but must be accompanied by a paying passenger."

I think there is room for misinterpretation here. Appeal and let them know how you thought you were correct as per their website.

In fairness it seems as if the only restriction on return tickets from reading the above is that the first trip has to be completed within 90 mins of issue.

If you got a return from 1 to 4, then on the way back walked from 1 to 3, got on at 3 to 4 I would presume you would be ok to do this. How can inspectors police people getting on at later stages unless

1) They see the person get off and back on
2) The person admits it

There was a case where a girl was prevented from reboarding: http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/girl-15-wins-5k-in-luas-ticket-row-27965325.html

The sentence about breaks in journey not being permitted is not part of the sentence about single tickets. It looks like a blanket prohibition but probably badly positioned in the paragraph.

No Pants

Tarabuses wrote: »

What do you mean by "the couple were passed over"? I thought the inspectors checked all passengers not just a sample?

I think they deliberately don't notice people who might be...difficult.

_Kaiser_

Tarabuses wrote: »

What do you mean by "the couple were passed over"? I thought the inspectors checked all passengers not just a sample?

I think he means the inspector chose to ignore the couple in question so as to avoid an argument/getting punched/glassed etc

Public transport eh?

TheChrisD

Tarabuses wrote: »

It looks like a blanket prohibition but probably badly positioned in the paragraph.

And it's that bad positioning which might help the OP's case here.

foggy_lad

Sefirah wrote: »

That's the really frustrating thing... I see that I was in the wrong (now.. :S) but I was sitting across the way from a really dodgy looking couple who, upon seeing the inspectors boarding the luas, started deliberating whether they should make a run for it or not (clearly had no ticket). And there was me like a fool thinking my ticket was perfectly acceptable and gave it to him, while the couple were passed over.

What exactly was "dodgy looking" about this couple, also did anyone else hear their alleged deliberations on "whether they should make a run for it or not" and do you know without a shred of doubt that they had no ticket?

Is it not more probable that this couple had free travel and showed their travel pass to the ticket inspector who gave it a cursory glance before moving on to someone else/you?

There's a clear distinction being made between 'problematic' passengers and those who are likely to not only accept the fine but provide ID and the correct address :S

If you feel discriminated because of your nice/attractive/non-dodgy appearance and friendly/mild-mannered demeanour you should probably address a complaint to Luas customer care

Sefirah

Tarabuses wrote: »

What do you mean by "the couple were passed over"? I thought the inspectors checked all passengers not just a sample?

No, he just went right on by them

Fratton Fred wrote: »

He took you (valid) return ticket off you so you had to pay again? I would complain about that.

Yeah, that part really made me angry- if anything, I wanted that ticket as evidence to support my appeal. I mentioned this fact in the letter of appeal I wrote to the people who deal with these issues in the Luas, but if they're really going to go ahead and fine me, it's rather tempting to ask that they cover the costs for my return fare which I was entitled to.

foggy_lad wrote: »

What exactly was "dodgy looking" about this couple, also did anyone else hear their alleged deliberations on "whether they should make a run for it or not" and do you know without a shred of doubt that they had no ticket?

Is it not more probable that this couple had free travel and showed their travel pass to the ticket inspector who gave it a cursory glance before moving on to someone else/you?

If you feel discriminated because of your nice/attractive/non-dodgy appearance and friendly/mild-mannered demeanour you should probably address a complaint to Luas customer care

I'm sure you know what I mean by 'dodgy'- or at least anyone who has travelled on the red line will be well aware of their kind. I don't remember who else was around us, even if they did hear. They certainly didn't produce any ticket, but that said the inspector was also rather preoccupied with telling me that I "should know better" after seeing that I had an old student card in my wallet. Needless to say, luas fares aren't really studied for a university degree...!

lau1247

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

If the OPS journey 2nd trip had been within the 90s misn I actually think they would have a case reading the T&Cs

Don't get me wrong, if it was within 90 mins then I agree.

The op have said that few interviews were attended. Coupled that with journey time from the time the ticket was bought to time to travel from zone 1 to 3. It would have exceeded the 90 mins mark logically hence my confidence regarding op not being able to wriggle out of the T&C

lau1247

Tarabuses wrote: »

The sentence about breaks in journey not being permitted is not part of the sentence about single tickets. It looks like a blanket prohibition but probably badly positioned in the paragraph.

Doesn't matter since op exceeded the 90 mins term

Onthe3rdDay

Terrontress wrote: »

The whole thing is a pain op. I'll probably add nothing to the thread by pointing out that, as you were attired for an interview rather than a methadone clinic, you were ripe pickings.

I've noted this when I'm on the Luas as I attempt to get from Busaras to Heuston. I,m usually in a suit and I am always asked for my ticket...but possible troublesome individuals appear to have a cloak of invisibility.

Twoandahalfmen

The Lucas employees are cowards anyway. Have no problem dining decent hard working people, but when in cones to druggies they don't go near them.

IMO Don't pay it and point of the above point

AlekSmart

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

The Lucas employees are cowards anyway. Have no problem dining decent hard working people, but when in cones to druggies they don't go near them.

IMO Don't pay it and point of the above point

"Decent Hard-Working People" such as this specimen.....Yes ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mugger-chased-down-in-busy-street-29455493.html

dowlingm

AlekSmart wrote: »

"Decent Hard-Working People" such as this specimen.....Yes ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mugger-chased-down-in-busy-street-29455493.html

I read that and thought - "his brief will find a way to say the LUAS lads did wrong and lob in a claim against them for that matter"

No Pants

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

The Lucas employees are cowards anyway. Have no problem dining decent hard working people

How do you get them to do that and do they offer a choice of establishment?

corktina

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

The Lucas employees are cowards anyway. Have no problem dining decent hard working people, but when in cones to druggies they don't go near them.

IMO Don't pay it and point of the above point

babelfish link please

Victor

OK folks, behave.

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