Local cycling associations and escort vans.. Are sirens allowed?

My name is URL

I was driving from Dundalk towards Drogheda on an old stretch of road this evening. There was a cycle on and they had a van and unmarked cars giving escort.

The van had quite a loud siren too.. was surprised to hear it coming up behind me as I was pulling onto the road. They sounded the thing and I assumed it was emergency services but couldn't see anything approaching. I safely moved to the hard-shoulder & stopped anyway and then a green van passed with a barely visibly amber light flashing and the siren set to 11.

What's the story with this? Should they be using sirens on relatively busy roads without any signage suggesting that a race is underway? It didn't strike me as all that safe tbh.. people assume there's an emergency if they hear a siren, and may react to it brashly in some scenarios.

Pataman

Nope. Legislation doesn't allow it. I suppose it comes under discretion by the Gardai

My name is URL

Pataman wrote: »

Nope. Legislation doesn't allow it. I suppose it comes under discretion by the Gardai

Thanks. I asked the same question in the Cycling forum but have not received any responses.. surprisingly!

How far does discretion go in these cases? I've no intention on reporting it but it did seem rather dangerous to me. The hard shoulder is quite narrow on certain parts of that road and it would be difficult for a motorist to safely slow down and move to allow the vehicle to pass... not to mention that a raft of cyclists are in pursuit of the van, and not exactly abiding to the rules of the road themselves.

seven_eleven

I'm seeing stuff like this more and more lately.

This year already, I've seen a security 4x4 with red flashing strobes.
A motorbike with red flashing lights, very similar to an american police harley davidson.

I'm almost certain the above arent allowed.
But to a larger extent I'm seeing construction vehicles with orange grill lights and orange lights done up like an ES vehicle. I presume thats legal, it just looks a bit strange.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

I was driving from Dundalk towards Drogheda on an old stretch of road this evening. There was a cycle on and they had a van and unmarked cars giving escort.

The van had quite a loud siren too.. was surprised to hear it coming up behind me as I was pulling onto the road. They sounded the thing and I assumed it was emergency services but couldn't see anything approaching. I safely moved to the hard-shoulder & stopped anyway and then a green van passed with a barely visibly amber light flashing and the siren set to 11.

What's the story with this? Should they be using sirens on relatively busy roads without any signage suggesting that a race is underway? It didn't strike me as all that safe tbh.. people assume there's an emergency if they hear a siren, and may react to it brashly in some scenarios.

Not allowed. Not the reg and report them. Only people who should be using sirens on an escort are AGS.

goldie fish

foreign wrote: »

Not allowed. Not the reg and report them. Only people who should be using sirens on an escort are AGS.

Define siren. (for making a complaint that is) Therein lies the difficulty. Because legally, the type of sirens these groups use are no different to that used by ice cream vans, heavy vehicles reversing or even gantry cranes moving around a site. (In Korean shipyards, many cranes use ice cream van music when cranes are moving, to single them out from the other machinery background noise).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0694.html

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

Define siren. (for making a complaint that is) Therein lies the difficulty. Because legally, the type of sirens these groups use are no different to that used by ice cream vans, heavy vehicles reversing or even gantry cranes moving around a site. (In Korean shipyards, many cranes use ice cream van music when cranes are moving, to single them out from the other machinery background noise).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0694.html

Section 2 clearly outlines who can and can't have a siren. An audible warning device is your car horn. You can also have whatever noise/siren you want off a public road. And Ice Cream vans play music to attract attention, like politicians and tannoys etc.

goldie fish

foreign wrote: »

Section 2 clearly outlines who can and can't have a siren. An audible warning device is your car horn. You can also have whatever noise/siren you want off a public road. And Ice Cream vans play music to attract attention, like politicians and tannoys etc.

Not arguing with you, but you still need to be able to prove it was a siren in court and not something else.

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

Not arguing with you, but you still need to be able to prove it was a siren in court and not something else.

And that's where you give your evidence or produce your witness.

the_syco

goldie fish wrote: »

Not arguing with you, but you still need to be able to prove it was a siren in court and not something else.

OP; take a video of the van if it happens again.

My name is URL wrote: »

I safely moved to the hard-shoulder & stopped anyway and then a green van passed with a barely visibly amber light flashing and the siren set to 11.

If you have the vans registration plate, you could always query the local Gardai about their green van with the Garda siren and flashing lights on whatever road it was, and give the registration plate; I can't see them being too pleased about it, and they may have had others complaining.

Capri

I'm seeing stuff like this more and more lately.

This year already, I've seen a security 4x4 with red flashing strobes.
A motorbike with red flashing lights, very similar to an american police harley davidson.

I'm almost certain the above arent allowed.
But to a larger extent I'm seeing construction vehicles with orange grill lights and orange lights done up like an ES vehicle. I presume thats legal, it just looks a bit strange.

Red lights, AFIK, are NOT legal when showing towards the front of any vehicle. And what about the strobe lights on bicycles (even the AGS ones don't have flashing front lights !) and 'blue' sidelights / headlights on some cars - trouble is a lot of motorists might think it was an emergency vehicle and cause an accident by pulling over or stopping suddenly as a lot of drivers do ?




Fine saying that it's at the discretion of the local Gardai, BUT when an accident is caused or occured then what ? WHO gets the rap ? Only a small step from 'discretion' to ....

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20130707-vietnam-steps-up-control-of-cop-uniforms-production-sale-use.aspx

The Ministry of Public Security has ordered police departments in cities and provinces to crack down on the illegal production, transport, trade and use of police uniforms.

A ministry circular last week also prohibited trainees at police schools and officers from trading or giving away their uniforms.

The ministry instructed its logistics and engineering division to ensure there is strict control over the production and distribution of uniforms.

It ordered the Hanoi police to investigate the origin of uniforms they seized recently from shops in Son Tay town and Le Duan, Nguyen Thiep, and Dai Mo Streets in the capital.

Earlier, on May 27, Tien Phong (Pioneer) newspaper had reported that the uniforms were sold on sidewalks at the Nguyen Trai-Khuat Duy Tien intersection for VND100,000-200,000 (US$4.7-9.4).

For several days local authorities had ignored it, the report said.

The ministry acted the next day, and authorities seized uniforms, caps, belts, stripes, and medals from shops in Son Tay and several streets.

In the recent past authorities around Vietnam have arrested and punished several people for wearing police uniforms and collecting "fines" from traffic violators

and

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20130703-vietnam-security-firms-under-strict-control-after-scandalous-escort.aspx


The Ministry of Public Security Security has ordered police agencies around the country to crack down on erring security firms after a Ho Chi Minh City-based operators was found violating a series of traffic rules while escorting an Australian motivational speaker in May.

It came on Tuesday when the ministry also announced the results of its investigation into the actions of Titan Security Company’s personnel while escorting Nick Vujicic’s car from Tan Son Nhat International Airport to his hotel in District 1 on May 22.

Guards, who drove large, powerful motorbikes, used sirens and clubs to clear traffic for the cavalcade, ran red lights, and drove in wrong lanes, and were filmed by someone in a clip that went viral, the ministry said.

The city police have fined four Titan motorbikes and one car for failing to produce registration papers and licenses.

Two other motorbikes with dubious papers have been seized for further investigations.

In Hanoi, Vujicic’s cavalcade consisted of eight large motorbikes and 10 cars, but they complied with the rules, the ministry said.

goldie fish

This is not Vietnam.