letter from Dept saying i over claimed SFP in 2009 WTF

NewBeefFarmer

got a letter from the dept,
from the bad english it looks like they are trying to say that we over claimed in 2009, yet this is the same acreage that has been used for as far back as i can remember. . .and we even had an inspection going back 7 8 yrs

they are now looking for approx €500 back in relation to same.

i rang them up, asking where you getting this from, they said oh maps should have been sent out first. and that they are aware that they havent gone out. maps to be sent out with break down of details. . .

how the f can they do this now , just because they are short of money. . . I look at the maps each year. .. i cant wait to see what they have come up with. the maps are correct that ive been submitting. . .

First the DAS last year, then CAP Reform (which i will loose a bit) and now this. . . .

driven insane. why the F would anyone start farming is beyond me.

then to see the headline on last weeks journal, that 79 farmers will be coming out with a nice increase and could take home over 200k a yr. . .

Very Very Cheesed off. my third year in, and the second battle im having with the Dept. . .

ill quit in a yr or two if this keeps up
NBF. . .

grazeaway

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

got a letter from the dept,
from the bad english it looks like they are trying to say that we over claimed in 2009, yet this is the same acreage that has been used for as far back as i can remember. . .and we even had an inspection going back 7 8 yrs

they are now looking for approx €500 back in relation to same.

i rang them up, asking where you getting this from, they said oh maps should have been sent out first. and that they are aware that they havent gone out. maps to be sent out with break down of details. . .

how the f can they do this now , just because they are short of money. . . I look at the maps each year. .. i cant wait to see what they have come up with. the maps are correct that ive been submitting. . .


First the DAS last year, then CAP Reform (which i will loose a bit) and now this. . . .

driven insane. why the F would anyone start farming is beyond me.

then to see the headline on last weeks journal, that 79 farmers will be coming out with a nice increase and could take home over 200k a yr. . .

Very Very Cheesed off. my third year in, and the second battle im having with the Dept. . .

ill quit in a yr or two if this keeps up
NBF. . .

Whoever you are taking to get their name, get everything they say in writing like saying they should have sent out maps or made errors in not contacting you sooner. It may be 500 but fight them all the way.

NewBeefFarmer

dont worry, if it goes like the DAS it will be worth the long battle!. . . Cheek of them. . . .

Dont be daft

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

dont worry, if it goes like the DAS it will be worth the long battle!. . . Cheek of them. . . .

If every farmer they've fined/penalized fights them, it'll turn into a very expensive lesson in how not to stir up a hornets nest.

I'm only itching for them to send me out something.

NewBeefFarmer

personally, I just think there are so so so many government works trying to justify there jobs right now.. . .

where was this letter 5 years ago. .

LivInt20

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

got a letter from the dept,
from the bad english it looks like they are trying to say that we over claimed in 2009, yet this is the same acreage that has been used for as far back as i can remember. . .and we even had an inspection going back 7 8 yrs

they are now looking for approx €500 back in relation to same.

i rang them up, asking where you getting this from, they said oh maps should have been sent out first. and that they are aware that they havent gone out. maps to be sent out with break down of details. . .

how the f can they do this now , just because they are short of money. . . I look at the maps each year. .. i cant wait to see what they have come up with. the maps are correct that ive been submitting. . .

First the DAS last year, then CAP Reform (which i will loose a bit) and now this. . . .

driven insane. why the F would anyone start farming is beyond me.

then to see the headline on last weeks journal, that 79 farmers will be coming out with a nice increase and could take home over 200k a yr. . .

Very Very Cheesed off. my third year in, and the second battle im having with the Dept. . .

ill quit in a yr or two if this keeps up
NBF. . .

See link below.
http://www.ifa.ie/IFAInformation/tabid/586/ctl/Detail/mid/2202/xmid/5833/xmfid/23/Default.aspx

theaceofspies

NOBODY has mentioned the real cuts coming down the line for the SFP. The pot/'envelope' is even smaller than the 2002-era CAP deal before we even adjust for 11 years of inflation! Unfortunately farmers are now seen as an easy target by the current Government.

Any one who thinks that the current Minister represents farmers is seriously misguided. He is only one of a number of high ranking Fine Gael members with their eyes on the top job and all we get from the Department and the IFA is spin and more spin.

Dampintheattic

I got a letter telling me I didn't claim enough. Cheques expected any day now. -;)

NewBeefFarmer

am i right reading that link from the ifa site, that im been penalised for yr 2009 because i reduced my area in 2010 because i built a house on it? . . . in 2009 there was cattle on it, . . uck sake, I cannot wait to get this letter /maps. . . what a circus we have in charge.

manjou

Had an inspection on the area i claimed on and it took 2 days to do it about a month ago went round place with measuring tape and measured every bush and briar and fence line in place and now having another one to make sure other inspector is correct.the detail on new maps are unreal and problem is that when maps were done first lines were done with pen and so were not as accurate.Will not know result until reportts done and maps re digitilsed again but will be getting one of these letters and long delay in these payments. Now they are saying people are over claimed in previous years and penalising them but what is happening is technology has got more accurate and so area is reduced and was not a mistake so why are they looking for money back when all they should do is reduce future payments by that much.

Figerty

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

got a letter from the dept,
from the bad english it looks like they are trying to say that we over claimed in 2009, yet this is the same acreage that has been used for as far back as i can remember. . .and we even had an inspection going back 7 8 yrs

they are now looking for approx €500 back in relation to same.

i rang them up, asking where you getting this from, they said oh maps should have been sent out first. and that they are aware that they havent gone out. maps to be sent out with break down of details. . .

how the f can they do this now , just because they are short of money. . . I look at the maps each year. .. i cant wait to see what they have come up with. the maps are correct that ive been submitting. . .

First the DAS last year, then CAP Reform (which i will loose a bit) and now this. . . .

driven insane. why the F would anyone start farming is beyond me.

then to see the headline on last weeks journal, that 79 farmers will be coming out with a nice increase and could take home over 200k a yr. . .

Very Very Cheesed off. my third year in, and the second battle im having with the Dept. . .

ill quit in a yr or two if this keeps up
NBF. . .

Any chance you built a slatted shed and didn't take it out of the claimform area? I had them take about €30. There was no indication that the shed was the caused. I queried it, and made them justify it; I'm sure it cost them more than €30 to issue maps and letters. Everyone should query the changes and swamp them with legitimate questions.

On the face if it, going back to 2009 is ridiculous, but if they can set your new payment on a reduced area, then you will be getting less for the new cap deal... they do this with 5000 farmers and they have a nice little pot of money for the foreseeable future.

Figerty

manjou wrote: »

Had an inspection on the area i claimed on and it took 2 days to do it about a month ago went round place with measuring tape and measured every bush and briar and fence line in place and now having another one to make sure other inspector is correct.the detail on new maps are unreal and problem is that when maps were done first lines were done with pen and so were not as accurate.Will not know result until reportts done and maps re digitilsed again but will be getting one of these letters and long delay in these payments. Now they are saying people are over claimed in previous years and penalising them but what is happening is technology has got more accurate and so area is reduced and was not a mistake so why are they looking for money back when all they should do is reduce future payments by that much.

How accurate was the tape by comparison with the old maps? Did you question that? The old maps were of exceptional quality.
Don't forget that the digital maps need to have an interpretation of a fence line or a watercourse either applied automatically or with human intervention; neither of which are 100% reliable.

I can see errors on my own maps but the pretty much balance out.

countryjimbo

You'll know more when you get the maps but one issue might be that your neighbouring farmers claims are crossing into your land. This may not be deliberate on their part but the dept will just write to all and say you have overclaimed and let you sort it out!

I have a problem where the old maps were perfect and when they digitised them I lost over a hectare! It was a very straightforward boundary and there was a house they could use for reference. In the old map the boundary lined up one side of the house and in the digital maps it was about 50 meters to the other side. Sent in photos clearly showing that the boundary was where I was claiming it to be. The amount of agro I had to go through to sort it. Couldn't get talking to the maps areas (they don't take calls :rolleyes:), dealt with a lad in the dept who agreed with me yet it took about 6 months to sort it as the mapping area just wouldn't change it.

Don't give up, keep at them !

blackdog1

I got the same letter once turned out the red marker I used to mark my boundaries on the map was too thick. ..pain in the arse where common sense should have prevailed.

Conmaicne Mara

Are the maps to follow the letters automatically? The ould fella got two letters yesterday dated 11th July looking for immediate payment or else interest & deductions - nothing mentioned about the three weeks they sat around in an orifice somewhere, or how many man hours it cost to figure this out and process from start to finish.

Jobs for the boys.

NewBeefFarmer

Mine dated 11th also.
They told me ignore the penalty bit. . As its all gone belly up. .

The bit i dont like is where they say they will take it on next sfp if its not paid.

whelan1

i am taking the wait and see approach.... will wait for 2 weeks and see then.. milk cheque will be in then

Milton09

I've been checking my 2013 online SFP application "land details" for the past few months. Nearly all parcels have been re-digitised down by a few hundredths of a Ha but one parcel has been reduced by over 10 Ha. I'm just waiting for the letter in the post, I sense a battle of epic proportions ahead!

Conmaicne Mara

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

They told me ignore the penalty bit. . As its all gone belly up. .

The bit i dont like is where they say they will take it on next sfp if its not paid.

You lost me on the bit in bold, what's gone belly up?

Taking money out of future cheques is standard practice for them, had that before.

bob charles

I would fight it all the way if you think you are right down as far as a tennor:). Just to show some jumped up prick that your not going to be pissed down on, I had a lovely snotty letter today from the Dept, one that your not supposed to reply to, just them laying down the law. They will have a lovely letter on their desk tuesday morning with a clear reply date, if they dont I will take it further. If some wants to act the c**t with me I will unduly be twice the prick back.

once you get someone to roll over when tickled and admit they are wrong they will take you from behind again. They are acting judge and jury

merryberry

bob charles wrote: »

I would fight it all the way if you think you are right down as far as a tennor:).

And be absolutely satisfied with ur interpretation of the rules first. So a word of advice – if ur fighting back then familiarise urself with comm. regs. and the relevant text to ur situation. When it comes to the nitty gritty, that’s what they will quote you.

Figerty

merryberry wrote: »

And be absolutely satisfied with ur interpretation of the rules first. So a word of advice – if ur fighting back then familiarise urself with comm. regs. and the relevant text to ur situation. When it comes to the nitty gritty, that’s what they will quote you.

You are correct there, but sometimes the Dept. don't know the nitty gritty either. The go on custom and practice.

I brought in a car a few years ago and had to quote their own rules to the them. I was amazed at how far I had to go to get them to implement their own rules. Be careful and be right!

bob charles

Most of these chaps will hide behind there organization, most arent the brightest stars in the sky and dont know the legislation themselves. If your going to fight your case make sure your 110% right in the first place.

In the past I have being told to do some peculiar things by the department, best not list them on here.

Has anyone that gotten these letters have a area aid inspection in the proceeding years to which they are referring too? ie the land walked and measured?. I had it done in 09 and since then I have taken there figures to be 100% correct. Could they now go back and say their own inspector was incorrect?

20silkcut

I have a lawn area that is now part of my grazing rotation for my calves. I am farming it 100%.
I have an old roadway running through my farm from my fathers time milking which I kept for ease of movement of cattle but which is also part of the grazing area. Both the lawn and the roadway are long digitised out of my reference area despite having a good carpet of grass on both.
This is all just bull**** that they are making up as they go along.

manjou

They are getting more accurate now with the maps and that is the reason that the areas are changing.But they are trying to claw back money because of this and that is problem wonder has anyone got a cheque whose land area has increased i would think not so when get results of inspections and get letter will be sending letters back also and o0ther means i can to cause trouble.

theaceofspies

manjou wrote: »

They are getting more accurate now with the maps and that is the reason that the areas are changing.But they are trying to claw back money because of this and that is problem wonder has anyone got a cheque whose land area has increased i would think not so when get results of inspections and get letter will be sending letters back also and o0ther means i can to cause trouble.

They need the money. There areonly 2 sources:
Farmers=easy target (IFA not properly representing the real farming community) - we'll hit them!
Public service=no go area (SIPTU in bed with Government partner i.e The Labour Party)