Want to change from oil to gas - but we have a backboiler we use

oinkely

Hi All,

Looking for a bit of advise.

We currently have oil central heating and we also have a back boiler stove (charnwood slx 45).

The backboiler heats all the rads in the house and produces lovely piping hot water too.

Our oil boiler is out in the shed and is looking pretty tatty. Lots of rust and the like so possibly is not going to last much longer. The oil boiler pump does not heat one rad, which is the furthest from it.

The shed is about 5 metres from the house and we have a lovely strip of green among the snow when the heat is on.

I want to replace the boiler and bring it into the house as i can only imagine how much waste there is heating the grass on the way in!

we have a small garden so getting rid of the oil tank would be great too.

i had a RGI installer come out recently and he has come back to say there is no way we can have gas and the back boiler together. He says there is no way he can sign off on an install with our back boiler as it reduces the efficiency of the system too much.

I don't want to lose the back boiler as we have a good supply of timber for free and we light the fire every evening (that the temerature outside warrants i). He suggested just using the fire as a space heater and gas for the rest of the house. I think he may have missed the point about free heat there!

Anyway, looking to see if anyone has an opinion on how we could combine gas and back boiler.

I'm in the north wicklow area so if anyone is qualified in this area and would like to discuss taking on this project then please pm me.

all advice gratefully received.
thanks

kscobie

Fit a Outdoor Heatpac or a Vortex module (both oil) up against the external wall, connecting onto the heating pipes before they cross to the shed. No heatloss, and very little changing

shane0007

Solid fuel & gas can go together but I personally would not put them together. Solid fuel will destroy a gas boiler heat exchanger.
Gas boiler for efficiency would be best. You can link then with a new system very well. Also no need to change the cylinder for a twin coil.
So you would be sealing the gas boiler & rads but leaving the solid fuel open vented. It also will meet all the new building regs requirements for solid fuel when they come out later this year.
There are other options available to you also.
You can PM me if you wish to discuss further.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Solid fuel & gas can go together but I personally would not put them together. Solid fuel will destroy a gas boiler heat exchanger.
Gas boiler for efficiency would be best. You can link then with a new system very well. Also no need to change the cylinder for a twin coil.
So you would be sealing the gas boiler & rads but leaving the solid fuel open vented. It also will meet all the new building regs requirements for solid fuel when they come out later this year.
There are other options available to you also.
You can PM me if you wish to discuss further.

Wouldn't a magnaclean at the gas boiler protect the heat exchanger?

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

Wouldn't a magnaclean at the gas boiler protect the heat exchanger?

It would help but not protect it completely. It would eventually get the better of it.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

It would help but not protect it completely. It would eventually get the better of it.

Even if the system was properly flushed and treated too?

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

Even if the system was properly flushed and treated too?

Yup. The system will still oxidise over time. Magnet will catch a fair bit but it won't catch all.
I'm not saying you can't & that you won't get years happy boilering but it will eventually catch up with it.
Also how many are properly maintained? How many are cleaned annually? How many are correctly dosed with protection? How many are re-treated after a drain down?
How many solid fuel systems do not pitch from overheating?

As I said, it's not my cup of tea, there are better ways of doing things IMHO.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Yup. The system will still oxidise over time. Magnet will catch a fair bit but it won't catch all.
I'm not saying you can't & that you won't get years happy boilering but it will eventually catch up with it.
Also how many are properly maintained? How many are cleaned annually? How many are correctly dosed with protection? How many are re-treated after a drain down?
How many solid fuel systems do not pitch from overheating?

As I said, it's not my cup of tea, there are better ways of doing things IMHO.

So what's this new system yer on about? Can both gas and solid fuel heat the water and rads using a single coil cylinder?

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

So what's this new system yer on about? Can both gas and solid fuel heat the water and rads using a single coil cylinder?

Yup. Boiler & rads & coil are sealed. Solid fuel is open vented on its own.

(That'll get ya thinking, lol)

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Yup. Boiler & rads & coil are sealed. Solid fuel is open vented on its own.

(That'll get ya thinking, lol)

Is that the heat genie?

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

Is that the heat genie?

Nup. The new Building Regs when they are out state that the heat dissipation unit from the solid fuel must hold a minimum of 20 litres in volume. This unit is 22 litres.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Nup. The new Building Regs when they are out state that the heat dissipation unit from the solid fuel must hold a minimum of 20 litres in volume. This unit is 22 litres.

What is it called? Or is that a silly question!

shane0007

HTT

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

HTT

When is it on the market? Any idea of pricing?

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

When is it on the market? Any idea of pricing?

Officially next month but can be got now.
A lot cheaper than other equivalents. Will PM you.

kscobie

shane0007 wrote: »

Officially next month but can be got now.
A lot cheaper than other equivalents. Will PM you.

That sounds very interesting Shane, would u PM me when your at it?

scudo2

oinkely wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for a bit of advise.

We currently have oil central heating and we also have a back boiler stove (charnwood slx 45).

The backboiler heats all the rads in the house and produces lovely piping hot water too.

Our oil boiler is out in the shed and is looking pretty tatty. Lots of rust and the like so possibly is not going to last much longer. The oil boiler pump does not heat one rad, which is the furthest from it.

The shed is about 5 metres from the house and we have a lovely strip of green among the snow when the heat is on.

I want to replace the boiler and bring it into the house as i can only imagine how much waste there is heating the grass on the way in!

we have a small garden so getting rid of the oil tank would be great too.

i had a RGI installer come out recently and he has come back to say there is no way we can have gas and the back boiler together. He says there is no way he can sign off on an install with our back boiler as it reduces the efficiency of the system too much.

I don't want to lose the back boiler as we have a good supply of timber for free and we light the fire every evening (that the temerature outside warrants i). He suggested just using the fire as a space heater and gas for the rest of the house. I think he may have missed the point about free heat there!

Anyway, looking to see if anyone has an opinion on how we could combine gas and back boiler.

I'm in the north wicklow area so if anyone is qualified in this area and would like to discuss taking on this project then please pm me.

all advice gratefully received.
thanks

There is no reason why you can't have proper dual heating with gas.
Pipe work might have to be changed a bit to bring it up to current safety standards.
Hopefully one of the RGI lads on this board that covers north Wicklow will get back on to you.
If not contact a few more installers localy.
Again, there is no problem having dual or as many sources of heat that you want.
Once its correctly installed.

shane0007

scudo2 wrote: »

There is no reason why you can't have proper dual heating with gas.

Erm.... What about HE gas boiler heat exchanger?
It would never handle the muck in a system from solid fuel over time.
Most manufacturer's would not stand over their warranty on their heat exchanger or other boiler components on the wet side of the boiler when installed in conjunction with solid fuel.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

Solid fuel & gas can go together but I personally would not put them together. Solid fuel will destroy a gas boiler heat exchanger.
Gas boiler for efficiency would be best. You can link then with a new system very well. Also no need to change the cylinder for a twin coil.
So you would be sealing the gas boiler & rads but leaving the solid fuel open vented. It also will meet all the new building regs requirements for solid fuel when they come out later this year.
There are other options available to you also.
You can PM me if you wish to discuss further.

The BIG over riding factor here is that he has a free supply of solid fuel and the gas will only be a small factor here. Does it have to be a HE boiler?
I know plenty of people with a bog standard duel heating with no pitching problems and trouble free.

ps Shane please do not reply with a load of techinical gobbly de gook, I do respect your knowledge.:)

shane0007

scudo2 wrote: »

ps Shane please do not reply with a load of techinical gobbly de gook, I do respect your knowledge.:)

Apologies if you do not understand "technical gobbly de gook", but you have elected to work in a "technical gobbly de gook" profession, therefore I will keep this simple for you:

You are wrong.

scudo2

OMG, Your to polite, even though you never think your wrong, was going to add "also" but that would be slandering my good name.

At least I showed some respect for your opinion. We all try to give our best professional opinion.

shane0007

Well your last post was a bit insulting & I felt it deserved the reply it got.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

Well your last post was a bit insulting & I felt it deserved the reply it got.

This is a public sorry/apoligy to Shane0007

In responce to your PM. I didn't mean to offend with my previous post. Sorry you were offended, only trying to point out that dual heating is ok. I'm at fault for the offence I've caused you to feel and if a mod decided I was out of order please take what action you need as I shouldn't have said somethings that could cause offence if taken up the wrong way which I didn't mean it to be.
My fault MD

oinkely

oinkely wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for a bit of advise.

We currently have oil central heating and we also have a back boiler stove (charnwood slx 45).

The backboiler heats all the rads in the house and produces lovely piping hot water too.

Our oil boiler is out in the shed and is looking pretty tatty. Lots of rust and the like so possibly is not going to last much longer. The oil boiler pump does not heat one rad, which is the furthest from it.

The shed is about 5 metres from the house and we have a lovely strip of green among the snow when the heat is on.

I want to replace the boiler and bring it into the house as i can only imagine how much waste there is heating the grass on the way in!

we have a small garden so getting rid of the oil tank would be great too.

i had a RGI installer come out recently and he has come back to say there is no way we can have gas and the back boiler together. He says there is no way he can sign off on an install with our back boiler as it reduces the efficiency of the system too much.

I don't want to lose the back boiler as we have a good supply of timber for free and we light the fire every evening (that the temerature outside warrants i). He suggested just using the fire as a space heater and gas for the rest of the house. I think he may have missed the point about free heat there!

Anyway, looking to see if anyone has an opinion on how we could combine gas and back boiler.

I'm in the north wicklow area so if anyone is qualified in this area and would like to discuss taking on this project then please pm me.

all advice gratefully received.
thanks

I would agree with your RGI.

Adding a back boiler to a gas heating system is rarely given the respect it deserves which can lead to tears, nearly all of the combined systems iv been called to have had issues due to system design.

Have a look here for further info on combining the two http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Linked-systems-&-Linkup.html

gifted

gary71 wrote: »

I would agree with your RGI.

Adding a back boiler to a gas heating system is rarely given the respect it deserves which can leads to tears, nearly all of the combined systems iv been called to have had issues due to system design.

Have a look here for further info on combining the two http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Linked-systems-&-Linkup.html

Friend of mine recently installed one of those heat exchangers with a solid fuel boiler and an oil boiler, couldn't believe how good they worked, think his one set him back €100.

JohnnieK

shane0007 wrote: »

Officially next month but can be got now.
A lot cheaper than other equivalents. Will PM you.

Don't be keeping your cards to your chest. PM me too