Think we're being overcharged for a back patio

Danger781

Hey folks..

We're hoping to have a small patio done in back garden.. Bought the slabs and all the materials today but we never realised how much the lads are trying to charge us for labour..

There's a group of two lads. One is charging €100 pet day, the other €200 per day.. So in other words they're looking €300 per day for a patio that would be a little larger than a standard driveway. They said it will take two to three days.

Are we being overcharged or would this be around the going rate for masonry?

kkelliher

Danger781 wrote: »

Hey folks..

We're hoping to have a small patio done in back garden.. Bought the slabs and all the materials today but we never realised how much the lads are trying to charge us for labour..

There's a group of two lads. One is charging €100 pet day, the other €200 per day.. So in other words they're looking €300 per day for a patio that would be a little larger than a standard driveway. They said it will take two to three days.

Are we being overcharged or would this be around the going rate for masonry?

To give you a simple overview of legitimate costs in the indutry:

Minimum wage = 8.65 x 8 hours working day = €69.20. It is almost impossible to get anyone in the building trade to do something for the minimum wage even if they have no qualifications.

The lowest construction grade (general operative grade D) is by law entitled to €13.77 per hour (the highest general operative grade been €16.69 per hour) which again by an 8 hour day is €110.16 (highest being €133.52). This takes no account of any additional allowances of travel, etc etc that they are entitled to from their employer.

Any craftsman would be more.

Danger781

kkelliher wrote: »

To give you a simple overview of legitimate costs in the indutry:

Minimum wage = 8.65 x 8 hours working day = €69.20. It is almost impossible to get anyone in the building trade to do something for the minimum wage even if they have no qualifications.

The lowest construction grade (general operative grade D) is by law entitled to €13.77 per hour (the highest general operative grade been €16.69 per hour) which again by an 8 hour day is €110.16 (highest being €133.52). This takes no account of any additional allowances of travel, etc etc that they are entitled to from their employer.

Any craftsman would be more.

So you reckon that price-wise, they're actually on track? It seemed fairly high to me.. Then again, there is two of them I suppose.

€25 / hour and €12.50 / hour.

Uriel.

Danger781 wrote: »

So you reckon that price-wise, they're actually on track? It seemed fairly high to me.. Then again, there is two of them I suppose.

€25 / hour and €12.50 / hour.

It would seem to be about right and not too far off what I paid for similar enough jobs - although mine were done during boom times.

The going rate will usually be dictated by supply/demand. The only real suggestion I have for you is to shop around a little more if you can and get some more quotes. No harm in seeking a few more to get a flavour - (obviously just try to be as sure as possible in regards to competency/skill)

martinn123

Danger781 wrote: »

So you reckon that price-wise, they're actually on track? It seemed fairly high to me.. Then again, there is two of them I suppose.

€25 / hour and €12.50 / hour.

I presume, these craftsmen, have given you a copy of their Insurances, the above rates, do they include VAT.

The difference between 2 or 3 days is 50%, are they on a daily rate, or a rate for the job??

Sam Kade

Danger781 wrote: »

Hey folks..

We're hoping to have a small patio done in back garden.. Bought the slabs and all the materials today but we never realised how much the lads are trying to charge us for labour..

There's a group of two lads. One is charging €100 pet day, the other €200 per day.. So in other words they're looking €300 per day for a patio that would be a little larger than a standard driveway. They said it will take two to three days.

Are we being overcharged or would this be around the going rate for masonry?

Seems to be a big area, why is one man charging 100/day and another 200/day?

Zillah

Sam Kade wrote: »

Seems to be a big area, why is one man charging 100/day and another 200/day?

I would imagine master and apprentice, or whatever the masonry equivalent is. One likely has the expertise, the other is there to lift heavy things and learn.

Danger781

martinn123 wrote: »

I presume, these craftsmen, have given you a copy of their Insurances, the above rates, do they include VAT.

The difference between 2 or 3 days is 50%, are they on a daily rate, or a rate for the job??

To be 100% honest, I don't know. It's my father that is dealing with them. These lads have done jobs for relatives before they seem to be charging more this time around.

They mentioned a daily rate but I told my Dad to agree on a total cost. Big difference in €600 vs €900.

Sam Kade wrote: »

Seems to be a big area, why is one man charging 100/day and another 200/day?

It's two Polish lads. The one charging €200 / day is the stone mason, while the other is actually a tiler is a friend of his who helps him out and translates, since the stone masons English isn't the greatest.

As for the area, its something like this..

---

|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

---

The x area is currently concrete footpath and we are planning on putting slabs down. So they will need to come in and get rid of the path, dig up half the garden and expand the size of the path so that we would essentially be adding another row of X's. It's not a big garden at all. We are in the middle of a large housing estate.

They'll also be adding a very small wall around the edge of the slabs / grass to create almost like a boundary.

I can't remember how much slabs we picked up.. something like 20 - 25 m2 which seems like a HUGE amount of slabs for the area that it is..

JimsAlterEgo

Get a quote for total cost, if they can't do a fairly decent estimate on what you have told us run a mile. You should never get an open quote based on a time rate as there is no incentive to do under time, if anything opposite is true

650gs

Also you might note the the hourly rates given are for someone that is self employed and reg as so not someone screwing the dole too

Danger781

They seem to have verbally agreed on €600 but need to double check tomorrow. Seems fair enough.

hoodrats

Danger781 wrote: »

To be 100% honest, I don't know. It's my father that is dealing with them. These lads have done jobs for relatives before they seem to be charging more this time around.

They mentioned a daily rate but I told my Dad to agree on a total cost. Big difference in €600 vs €900.



It's two Polish lads. The one charging €200 / day is the stone mason, while the other is actually a tiler is a friend of his who helps him out and translates, since the stone masons English isn't the greatest.

As for the area, its something like this..

---

|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|+++++++++++++++++++xx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

---

The x area is currently concrete footpath and we are planning on putting slabs down. So they will need to come in and get rid of the path, dig up half the garden and expand the size of the path so that we would essentially be adding another row of X's. It's not a big garden at all. We are in the middle of a large housing estate.

They'll also be adding a very small wall around the edge of the slabs / grass to create almost like a boundary.

I can't remember how much slabs we picked up.. something like 20 - 25 m2 which seems like a HUGE amount of slabs for the area that it is..

a polish stonemason who cant speak english properly at 200 per day plus 100 per day for his translator, lol .
get out the golden pages and ring some local paving companys and get a few quotes , go look at a few jobs they have done etc.

sligo camper

For what it's worth, I'd get more quotations... What have you got to loose. Also as mentioned get a price for the full job start to finish...I don't believe you need a stone mason to lat a patio... Would you and your dad not try it yourself...also I would be wqry of dole cheats working the system...It does happen..