A criminal record

KwackerJack

So the number of people in prison for non payment of fines has risen sharply!

To stop this you should commit a bigger crime and walk free but that's bad so you should always obey the law!

Say a person spends 1 day in prison and is back home in time for a late supper the same day, will that person have a criminal record that will be damaging for future travel or employment.

LowKeyReturn

KwackerJack wrote: »

So the number of people in prison for non payment of fines has risen sharply!

To stop this you should commit a bigger crime and walk free but that's bad so you should always obey the law!

Say a person spends 1 day in prison and is back home in time for a late supper the same day, will that person have a criminal record that will be damaging for future travel or employment.

Slightly flippant post but thats the pot calling the kettle black. The bit in bold, with my limited understanding, is actually a bigger issue than you highlight given that community service orders etc should only be imposed where a custodial sentence is likely. (Happy for a correction on that.)

AFAIK no criminal record beyond the one for the fine. Might be an issue ion answering visa questions though. Again happy for corrections.

BognarRegis

KwackerJack wrote: »

Say a person spends 1 day in prison and is back home in time for a late supper the same day, will that person have a criminal record that will be damaging for future travel or employment.

It could affect home and car insurance applications, possibly loan applications and eligibility for certain jobs.

KwackerJack

BognarRegis wrote: »

It could affect home and car insurance applications, possibly loan applications and eligibility for certain jobs.

Why home? I wasn't driving my house when it happened

Fred Swanson

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johnnyskeleton

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Usual scaremongering.

Being in the jail for a day will not affect your car insurance.

I think he was referring to the conviction, which could affect car insurance, rather than the actual day in jail for non payment of the fine.

KwackerJack

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I think he was referring to the conviction, which could affect car insurance, rather than the actual day in jail for non payment of the fine.

Well both really but how does a day in jail affect a persons record?

Not paying a fine and robbing a bank are obviously two different things but is jail just jail know matter what the offence

carzony

Is this even considered a conviction?

Fred Swanson

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Pro Hoc Vice

carzony wrote: »

Is this even considered a conviction?

No the conviction happened in court months earlier, the penalty imposed would have been a fine to be paid in X days, and if not paid then X days in prison. So going to prison is not a conviction its the penalty.

KwackerJack

But say the conviction was pretty minor like, tv license, no car tax stuff like that.

A person simply cant afford the fine so ends up in prison and does a day which in fairness cost the state a fortune!

Does the fact that they went to jail make it a whole lot worse as in red light flashing when a record is checked?

Would that person then be classed as a criminal??

Fred Swanson

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Pro Hoc Vice

KwackerJack wrote: »

But say the conviction was pretty minor like, tv license, no car tax stuff like that.

A person simply cant afford the fine so ends up in prison and does a day which in fairness cost the state a fortune!

Does the fact that they went to jail make it a whole lot worse as in red light flashing when a record is checked?

Would that person then be classed as a criminal??

That person has a conviction in court, and a penalty imposed. Serving time under that conviction instead of a fine changes nothing good or bad.

BognarRegis

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I think he was referring to the conviction, which could affect car insurance, rather than the actual day in jail for non payment of the fine.

Yes. On some proposal forms I've seen one is asked if one has a criminal conviction.

Think about it - if you don't pay lawful debts - are you an honest person or a good risk? They could decline cover or up your premium

Fred Swanson

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camphor

Some visa application questions are to enquire if the applicant has ever been arrested. To have been in prison means there must have been an arrest. To pay a fine there need not have been an arrest. I the cases of two people convicted of the same offence and given the same fine one may have to answer yes whereas the other can answer no. That would be one implication of not paying the fine.

coylemj

BognarRegis wrote: »

Yes. On some proposal forms I've seen one is asked if one has a criminal conviction.

Think about it - if you don't pay lawful debts - are you an honest person or a good risk? They could decline cover or up your premium

A fine imposed by a court after a conviction is not a 'debt' and whether you pay the fine or spend a few hours in Mountjoy in lieu makes no difference to your criminal record if any. I say 'if any' because I don't believe they bother recording things like convictions in court for parking offences.

Pro Hoc Vice

camphor wrote: »

Some visa application questions are to enquire if the applicant has ever been arrested. To have been in prison means there must have been an arrest. To pay a fine there need not have been an arrest. I the cases of two people convicted of the same offence and given the same fine one may have to answer yes whereas the other can answer no. That would be one implication of not paying the fine.

The question asked is arrest or conviction. The person would have to answer yes. Also in relation to the USA question it says have you ever been arrested or convicted of a crime involving moral terpetude not paying you TV licence is not a crime involving moral terpitude.

BognarRegis

coylemj wrote: »

A fine imposed by a court after a conviction is not a 'debt' and whether you pay the fine or spend a few hours in Mountjoy in lieu makes no difference to your criminal record if any. I say 'if any' because I don't believe they bother recording things like convictions in court for parking offences.

Very few parking offences end up in court.

The point being once you have to tick a box saying 'criminal conviction' on any application form that requests it, you're going to be flagged up and will have to do dome convincing and explaining. You might still get insurance, a loan or a visa though.

camphor

infosys wrote: »

The question asked is arrest or conviction. The person would have to answer yes.

That might be some jurisdictions. Some nuances get lost in translation as well as the variations between legal systems.

Pro Hoc Vice

camphor wrote: »

That might be some jurisdictions. Some nuances get lost in translation as well as the variations between legal systems.

Càn you link to any country in their questions only ask about arrest and do not ask about conviction.

KwackerJack

Well so we have gathered that a person must tick yes for a conviction be it petty or a serious conviction.

Also a day in prison was in lieu of the unpaid fine so my take is that the the in prison is not aseen to be done because of the conviction there for the day in prison will not be a mark on a persons record!

Yes/No

coylemj

BognarRegis wrote: »

Very few parking offences end up in court.

You must be joking, there are hundreds every week in Dublin alone. When you don't pay a parking ticket, a summons is issued.

BognarRegis wrote: »

The point being once you have to tick a box saying 'criminal conviction' on any application form that requests it, you're going to be flagged up and will have to do dome convincing and explaining. You might still get insurance, a loan or a visa though.

That is covered by the fact that most times the question (do you have any criminal convictions?) is asked, it is heavily qualified to exclude the trivial stuff.

For example, as outlined above, the US Embassy only concerns themselves with crimes involving 'moral turpitude' and most motor insurance questionnaires specifically exclude parking convictions.

coylemj

KwackerJack wrote: »

Also a day in prison was in lieu of the unpaid fine so my take is that the the in prison is not aseen to be done because of the conviction there for the day in prison will not be a mark on a persons record!

Yes/No

Yes, the criminal records database (if the conviction is recorded) will say that you were fined €10 or whatever and no more. The fine is unenforceable unless there is a jail term set down in default on the order made by the judge so I believe the District Court Rules contains a schedule outlining the appropriate jail terms for different ranges of fines unpaid.

corkboy10

quick question,if you have MINOR convictions will it automatically disqualify people from obtaining work in the public sector???the more help on this the better thanks in advance

carzony

corkboy10 wrote: »

quick question,if you have MINOR convictions will it automatically disqualify people from obtaining work in the public sector???the more help on this the better thanks in advance

I think ANY convictions rules you out for the garda anyway?

corkboy10

carzony wrote: »

I think ANY convictions rules you out for the garda anyway?

that much is true,but say the H.S.E,Bus Eireann or another similar state body?!?

KwackerJack

carzony wrote: »

I think ANY convictions rules you out for the garda anyway?

So if you don't pay your TV licence and go to court you cant join the Garda?

carzony

corkboy10 wrote: »

that much is true,but say the H.S.E,Bus Eireann or another similar state body?!?

you'd have to explain yourself but I wouldn't think it'd be to much of a hindrance.

carzony

KwackerJack wrote: »

So if you don't pay your TV licence and go to court you cant join the Garda?

I'm not to sure about that mate? I'm sure if your right for the job and make a good impression in interviews you'd be ok?

it'd be Crazy to think That if I got a fine tomorrow and couldn't afford to pay it I'd ruin my chances of a career in the police. To me that just doesn't make sense

Fred Swanson

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KwackerJack

carzony wrote: »

I'm not to sure about that mate? I'm sure if your right for the job and make a good impression in interviews you'd be ok?

it'd be Crazy to think, If I got a fine and couldn't afford to pay it I'd ruin my chances of a career in the police. To me that just doesn't make sense..

I've never been to court for a TV licence but I was for the driving offence ha.

Like you said I really couldn't afford it and only done literally 5 hours in Castlerea

I'm ex-Army, tons of conflict management/physical intervention training completed, weapons training, Advanced car and motorcycle courses and then to have all that training and be refused due to a fine

I really hope not

corkboy10

carzony wrote: »

I'm not to sure about that mate? I'm sure if your right for the job and make a good impression in interviews you'd be ok?

it'd be Crazy to think That if I got a fine tomorrow and couldn't afford to pay it I'd ruin my chances of a career in the police. To me that just doesn't make sense

i know it WONT exclude you from the garda reserve

KwackerJack

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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So there's not I bent copper in the whole of An Garda Siochana or one with criminals friend who happens to be straight?

carzony

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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For not paying a fine? lol Just because you have minor convictions doesn't make you a bad person.

This is a corrupt country and discriminating someone who hasn't a big bank account is wrong

KwackerJack

corkboy10 wrote: »

i know it WONT exclude you from the garda reserve

Can I have that on Garda headed paper

corkboy10

KwackerJack wrote: »

Can I have that on Garda headed paper

was told that from a garda sgt!thats the only basis i'm going on

KwackerJack

corkboy10 wrote: »

was told that from a garda sgt!thats the only basis i'm going on

Jasus I hope he's right ha

corkboy10

KwackerJack wrote: »

Jasus I hope he's right ha

i'll never know though,not a career choice i'd take,why not apply??? :-D

KwackerJack

corkboy10 wrote: »

i'll never know though,not a career choice i'd take,why not apply??? :-D

I did apply, past the first stage and went for my interview with the superintendent and now waiting on Background checks but I am wondering if the day in prison will go against me

corkboy10

KwackerJack wrote: »

I did apply, past the first stage and went for my interview with the superintendent and now waiting on Background checks but I am wondering if the day in prison will go against me

hopefully not,very best of luck with it though