Help! How to improve sprint tri cycle?

kneejerk

I am currently around the 42min mark for the 20km cycle in races and have hit a plateau.

I use a road bike without aerobars or an aero helmet.

I am just looking for advice on the best kind of training to improve speed and whether I should get clip-on aero’s and an aero helmet?

Should I be pushing a big gear all the way or am I better trying to up the cadence and change the gears?

I train alone and do not have a cadence counter on the bike.

Trig1

I train alone also and always train alone which isnt a problem..on i good day i'll get 20k done in training in anything from 31mins to 33mins...the first thing is to try get as aero as possible...I got a set of clip on aero bars for my road bike when I first started tri and they increased my speed straight away by around 2-3kph...they will definitely get you below the 40min mark, I wouldn't be going away getting an aero helmet yet as it will only give you perhaps 20secs over 20km, A tt bike is probably too much of an expense...I always push a big gear but you need to be clever about it..theres no point pushing a big gear if your legs cannot handle it, especially going uphill, if pushing the big gear isn't working for you try a lighter gear and get your cadence up..again no need for a cadence counter...if you dont already have them the best ways to increase speed on the bike I think would be....1. Bike Shoes 2. Aero bars 3. Mileage (get more mileage into the legs) 4. once all that is done and you still have a need for speed invest in a tt bike (I picked uo a 2nd hand one for 700 euro so you dont need to break the bank) oh and 5. get a turbo trainer and some sufferfest videos for the winter..great training...hope this was a bit helpful..
Trig

kneejerk

Thanks Trig.

I will get clip on bars and push it as hard as I can in training.

Am I better doing 3 20k runs a week or 1 20k run and a 70k cycle?

longshank

kneejerk wrote: »

I am currently around the 42min mark for the 20km cycle in races and have hit a plateau.

I use a road bike without aerobars or an aero helmet.

I am just looking for advice on the best kind of training to improve speed and whether I should get clip-on aero’s and an aero helmet?

Should I be pushing a big gear all the way or am I better trying to up the cadence and change the gears?

I train alone and do not have a cadence counter on the bike.

buy The Triathletes Training Bible by joe friel rather than taking dubious advice on the internet!
or do lactate threshold intervals :P

Oryx

longshank wrote: »

buy The Triathletes Training Bible by joe friel rather than taking dubious advice on the internet!
or do lactate threshold intervals :P

That book can be a bit deep in parts if you're just starting off.

gilleek2

kneejerk wrote: »

Thanks Trig.

I will get clip on bars and push it as hard as I can in training.

Am I better doing 3 20k runs a week or 1 20k run and a 70k cycle?

Thats the brute force and ignorance approach to training. Numerous research studies suggest that around 80% of your training should be low intensity(say 65-75% perceived exertion) about 15% in the 75-85% effort level and then about 5% of time or maybe less in the 90-95% effort level. It's counterintuitive but it seems you have to train slow (a lot) in order to go fast!!

Most of these studies tend to be in elite or sub elite athletes so draw your own conclusions from that.

BennyMul

without knowing details like how long are you cycling, whats your current training like etc its is hard to say or give direction or bad advice;)
but if you have hit a plateau then you need to change whatever training you're doing.
The body adapts to stress and repeating the same training will not repeat the same benefits.

mrbungle

Lose poundage and get free speed.
Leaner, meaner, faster.

Oryx

I was the same as you training alone. You need to find someone faster than you and have them drag you along a few times. You'll work much harder with someone to chase and stay with.

pgibbo

Oryx wrote: »

I was the same as you training alone. You need to find someone faster than you and have them drag you along a few times. You'll work much harder with someone to chase and stay with.

This is indeed a good way to improve. However, be careful. I adopted this approach and ended up injured. Just be careful.

Nwm2

gilleek2 wrote: »

Thats the brute force and ignorance approach to training. Numerous research studies suggest that around 80% of your training should be low intensity(say 65-75% perceived exertion) about 15% in the 75-85% effort level and then about 5% of time or maybe less in the 90-95% effort level. It's counterintuitive but it seems you have to train slow (a lot) in order to go fast!!

Most of these studies tend to be in elite or sub elite athletes so draw your own conclusions from that.

You are drawing the wrong conclusions yourself and misunderstanding the implications of the studies, if the studies are the observational ones on elite athletes as you seem to suggest.

An elite athlete training 20-30 hours a week will typically have intensity distributions close to what you have said.

You say that this distribution should therefore apply to everyone? Nope.

Take an elite level cyclist training 30 hours per week on the bike, and now say to them they are allowed to train for 5 hours only. You think the intensity distribution will be the same?

The OP I'm guessing trains under 10 hours per week in total, with a fraction of this on the bike.

OP - if you want to stay slow, take the advice offered in the post I quoted.

Nwm2

longshank wrote: »

buy The Triathletes Training Bible by joe friel rather than taking dubious advice on the internet!
or do lactate threshold intervals :P

No to the TTB, for now anyway, big yes to the LT intervals.

BTH

Nwm2 wrote: »

You are drawing the wrong conclusions yourself and misunderstanding the implications of the studies, if the studies are the observational ones on elite athletes as you seem to suggest.

An elite athlete training 20-30 hours a week will typically have intensity distributions close to what you have said.

You say that this distribution should therefore apply to everyone? Nope.

Take an elite level cyclist training 30 hours per week on the bike, and now say to them they are allowed to train for 5 hours only. You think the intensity distribution will be the same?

The OP I'm guessing trains under 10 hours per week in total, with a fraction of this on the bike.

OP - if you want to stay slow, take the advice offered in the post I quoted.

Last year I averaged something like 10/11 hours training a week and never above 15hours. I would certainly have followed an intensity breakdown similar to what gilleek has posted, probably even less intensity. My times improved a ridiculous amount.

Don't knock it until you try it.

gilleek2

Nwm2 wrote: »

You are drawing the wrong conclusions yourself and misunderstanding the implications of the studies, if the studies are the observational ones on elite athletes as you seem to suggest.

An elite athlete training 20-30 hours a week will typically have intensity distributions close to what you have said.

You say that this distribution should therefore apply to everyone? Nope.


-
All i've suggested is that theres a lot of research to say that the OP's idea of going hard 100% of the time perhaps aint the way to go unless he/she wants to line the pockets of his/her local physio.




Take an elite level cyclist training 30 hours per week on the bike, and now say to them they are allowed to train for 5 hours only. You think the intensity distribution will be the same?


-
I could be wrong but i think that whats known as a strawman argument?? How do you reckon the elite level athlete got to his level?
Does the OP only have 5 hours available to him/her? I must have missed that in my haste to reply. Applogies.



The OP I'm guessing trains under 10 hours per week in total, with a fraction of this on the bike.


-
Great guess. Based on any information given by OP? OP has not suggeted that they have any particular limits on their time so even if they currently train less than 10 hours a week there's nothing to say they couldnt train more than that in order to achieve their goal.



OP - if you want to stay slow, take the advice offered in the post I quoted.

-
Essentially the OP has given no information about their sporting history. We have no real info to go on hence me merely throwing out what appears to be pretty well accepted as the distribution of training required to go fast.
OP may not make huge jumps in speed in the short term but by working diligently on building their aerobic capacity aswell as their anaerobic system over the medium to long term they will be in a much better position.
Up to you OP, short term satisfaction or long term world domination ;o)

gilleek2

gilleek2 wrote: »

-
Essentially the OP has given no information about their sporting history. We have no real info to go on hence me merely throwing out what appears to be pretty well accepted as the distribution of training required to go fast.
OP may not make huge jumps in speed in the short term but by working diligently on building their aerobic capacity aswell as their anaerobic system over the medium to long term they will be in a much better position.
Up to you OP, short term satisfaction or long term world domination ;o)

My above post is a bit messed up in between Nwm2's post. I clearly dont know how to reply to different sections of a post.

longshank

Nwm2 wrote: »

No to the TTB, for now anyway, big yes to the LT intervals.

and how do you suggest the OP finds out what a LT interval is?
What his LTHR is?
What intervals he should be doing?
How often he should do them?
etc etc.
Either buy TTB or similar and educate yourself with something other than unproven info from dodgy internet sources or get a coach.

Nwm2

longshank wrote: »

and how do you suggest the OP finds out what a LT interval is?
What his LTHR is?
What intervals he should be doing?
How often he should do them?
etc etc.
Either buy TTB or similar and educate yourself with something other than unproven info from dodgy internet sources or get a coach.

All I said was not to buy TTB specifically. There are lots of ways to get the information and I don't recommend TTB as the first book to buy on the subject.

pgibbo

Have a read of this

Might be helpful.

BTH

pgibbo wrote: »

Have a read of this

Might be helpful.

Not much top end LT intensity sessions advised there either. :P

A lot of high intensity training is a recipe for burnout and injury. Particularly as the OP appears to be a relative beginner, without the years of base work done to build a body able to withstand that level of intensity.

OP, to see real improvement, November to April is when the work is done. 2.5-3hour long easy spin at the weekend (every weekend), and a 60-90min turbo (given our weather) with 2/3*20min reps at a target HR (presuming no power meter) roughly 30-40bpm below Max HR, or 25 below expected race HR as per Gibbos article. Do this every week, obviously taking a couple of weeks to build up to that, and you WILL see massive improvement. If you can squeeze in another 45-60min easy turbo during the week then all the better. Hard hill reps, and faster shorter intervals are the icing on this 6 month long cake and should be done as a tune up coming into race season.

peter kern

I think it’s a mistake to fall into the trap of saying, “So-and-so runs really fast, run like him.” For any successful exemplar of a particular form you can find a counterexample.

just read it and it reminded me of this thread ;-)