Pancreatitis ?!?

tk123

Does anyone have experience with pancreatitis in dogs? My dog was in last week for X-rays (all prefect thank god) I asked for a blood panel to be done on him while he was under (just to get a baseline in case he needs to be medicated to treat his sep. anxiety)...my vet called yesterday saying some of the results are slightly higher than they should be and wanted to double check it was ok to request specific tests for pancreatitis. TBH it was like an episode of The Simpsons where somebody is talking to Homer and all he hears is 'blah blah blah'! - I couldn't take in what she was saying. We'll find out tomorrow if he needs to go back over to have more blood drawn which I'm dreading because he's so frightened when he goes over.

He seems fine in himself - was wresting playing with his friend yesterday and today as well as playing with the pup so I don't think he's in pain. Hasn't lost a dramatic amount of weight - I thought he'd put a little on while he was on chicken backs so switched to leaner duck necks and scrape all the fat off them and he's lost a small amount. I'm doing my best to not google and freak out but from what I googled I'm not sure what it means if he has it? Is it something he lives with and we manage or is it going to kill him?

DBB

One of my dogs has pancreatitis.
First of all, does your vet know that Bailey is raw fed? If he had a meaty meal in the hours before the bloods were drawn, it can elevate some of the parameters.
Pancreatitis causes dogs not to be able to process fats: the bloods are centrifuged to separate plasma from blood cells, and you'll see that the plasma is cloudy from the suspended fats in it, when it should be clear.
It can be serious, and yes, a dog can die of he consumes a glut of fat in one sitting, or can get really ill and sore if they eat small amounts of fatty foods.
However, it is very manageable via the diet, and you have to be really fussy about what they eat. You need to cut the fat as much as you can, I aim for below 8% fat (that's what the prescription dry food for pancreatitis contains, so that's my guideline!).
That means feeding low-fat cuts of meat: skinned chicken/turkey breast, skinned chicken legs with any fat cut off (I don't give turkey bones at all, they've very hard). Fish. Low-fat beef. Low fat yoghurt. And of course veg and spuds have no fat at all. Eggs are probably a little too high in fat, and I'd strenuously avoid any of the fattier cuts of chicken, including backs and wings.
I have managed it well, she was achey and sore around easter, when she was finally diagnosed (we'd had an episode the previous easter too), but now is fully back to her old self, really for the first time in quite a while. My vet feels that her pancreatitis is an autoimmune version that Cocker Spaniels are prone to... my dog is a Cocker x.
So, try not to worry. It would be a pain for such a youngster to have this condition hanging over him, but it is manageable, and no better woman than yourself to dedicate yourself to doing it right

tk123

She knows he's raw fed but fasted for the bloods. He's on a low fat diet already to keep weight off his joints but it could go lower. I fed chicken necks for a couple of months and to my shame didn't skin them..until he put on a little weight! I always scape the fat off the duck necks so hopefully they're ok to feed because he loves them so much. I think atm I'm more worried about the lab not having enough blood because I know he'll stress out going over to the vets let alone having the blood taken!

boomerang

For dogs prone to pancreatitis the recommended dietary guideline is less than eight per cent fat.

I know this because Boo has been lipaemic on her last two blood tests and I'm having a lot of trouble with her vomiting and gagging. Vet tomorrow. The problem with the diets for kidney disease is that they tend to be high in fat. :P I've noticed she has grown increasingly intolerant of anything fatty. I don't give her green tripe anymore because she just can't handle it. Same with lamb shanks and raw chicken breast on the bone.

Hope he'll be grand tk123. I have some excellent articles on managing pancreatitis and healthy home-prepared low-fat diets, if you'd like me to post them on. But hopefully it won't come to that.

Have some good websites too to buy digestive enzymes, if it happens he needs them. Hugs.

boomerang

Snap on the 8% DBB, just spotted that!

How was your lady diagnosed?

DBB

boomerang wrote: »

Snap on the 8% DBB, just spotted that!

How was your lady diagnosed?

Hey Boomerang,
She was sore and achy in her abdomen, wanted food but couldn't eat it ("liverish", I think is what to call it), and her plasma was very opaque. I can't remember the results of her bloods, but that's pretty much how it was diagnosed.
I'd love to see your recipes for low fat diets! Any chance you could pass them on?
That's rather a quandary you've got, trying to reduce fat when kidney patients need more of it... The joys, huh?
Funny you mention it, my little one is now repulsed by fatty foods. She will not eat any piece of meat with fat on it, positively turns her nose up at it. I often wonder is her body protecting her from eating fat? My old GSD was the same, after being diagnosed with liver cancer, she spurned fatty foods too.

tk123

Well crappy crap crap! I fed him this morning in my sleep (thanks to the pup ) without thinking - I probably should have remembered to fast him on the off chance he needs more bloods taken. GAH!!!
I'd love to see the articles as well pls

boomerang

I will get that to you, DBB and tk123.

I was up a few times during the night with Boo, she kept wanting out to the loo and during the night she did lots of little pees with blood in them on the kitchen floor. She vomited again, too. My vet is hoping this is all attributable to the Metacam I've been giving her the last few days, as she has spondylosis and her back end is getting weaker - she stumbled a few times in the last week. She hasn't needed pain relief in years. Vet said to stop the Metacam and we might look at putting her on a more renal-friendly NSAID. Any ideas, folks? Cimalgex seems okay-ish.

She is still lipaemic too so she's going on an officially low-fat diet and I hope I can come up with some recipes myself that won't be too high in phosphorus.

Her appetite is fine, but to me she seems queasy. Eating a lot more grass than usual and intermittent retching and the occasional vomit! Actually I was surprised today when my vet didn't suggest pancreatitis but she has so many different things going on. He also diagnosed a heart murmur.

It's been a really traumatic day!

tk123

he needs to get an ultrasound because the tests results where so high. Have a bad feeling now guys

boomerang

Will you PM me your email address, DBB and tk123, and I will email on the articles.

Try not to be downhearted tk123, from everything I'm reading, it can be successfully managed through diet.

Going home now to give my own lady a very big hug.

Cocolola

Fingers crossed for him here tk, hope it's not too bad.

DBB

boomerang wrote: »

Vet said to stop the Metacam and we might look at putting her on a more renal-friendly NSAID. Any ideas, folks? Cimalgex seems okay-ish.

Have you thought about Cartrophen? Or tried it already? That's what I use for my little lady... not so much for joint issues, but because it gives general pain relief whilst being pretty organ-friendly! I'm not sure of it's licensed as an analgesic, but it apparently has analgesic properties?

Her appetite is fine, but to me she seems queasy. Eating a lot more grass than usual and intermittent retching and the occasional vomit! Actually I was surprised today when my vet didn't suggest pancreatitis but she has so many different things going on. He also diagnosed a heart murmur.

Aw feck What a crap day indeed.
That queasiness is like what my lady gets... my vet has described it as being like a hangover. She feels ick, wants to eat, but just can't decide what it is she wants. We haven't had much in the way of vomit or diarrhoea though, so I think thus far she's gotten away quite lightly. I think she's in the same sort of age group as Boo? She's about 12.

Will PM you now re diet!

@tk, I know, worry, worry, worry But try not to worry too much, as you will be able to manage this. Kudos to your vet too, they're being very thorough

boomerang

Boo's just turned 11, DBB.

Some other friends suggested Cartrophen too. I will look into it, for sure.

She is gagging and retching but has managed to keep down a tin of Hills' i/d divided into several small meals. She has lost a bit more weight in the last few weeks - nearly another half kilo. She is now below her lowest ever adult weight. Between that, the falling over, the heart murmur and the blood in her pee, I'm in a right state, never mind poor Boo!

I'm just trying to work out a low-fat recipe for her that is also low-phos over on www.nutritiondata.com but it keeps berluddy crashing, stoopid site! I have ordered some Hill's low fat i/d dry food from the vet and will have that tomorrow as a stop gap. The only thing about the home-prepared recipe is that it is a massive amount of rice, potato and carrot to reach the required calorie count - she'll be eating little and often for sure or she won't be able to move, lol!

What do you feed, DBB?

DBB

Jeez, she's having a hard old time, huh? Poor Boo. I hope she responds soon to what you've done so far. My vet uses Cartrophen a lot for dogs who can't/shouldn't use other painkillers. In Boo's case, I'd imagine it'd be well worth considering.

I rarely feed any veg or spuds to my lady, because I want to keep her carb intake right down to keep the weight off her. So, she gets chicken breast (I think that's about 4-5% fat?), turkey breast, salmon (other oilier fish are a no-no for her... she won't eat them), occasionally some low fat beef mince (the stuff that has "less than 10% fat"), and offal. Bones-wise, an occasional chicken neck or two with as much fat trimmed off as I can, or a skinned and de-fatted wing. I don't like to overdo bones.
She might eat these meats raw, but more often than not prefers them lightly cooked. She tends to be very faddy, and sometimes won't eat any of these things, in which case I have the low-fat/diet Barking Heads on standby. I believe it's important not to let dogs with pancreatitis go too long without food, to try and keep the meals small but regular so that there's always food in the system. So if Barking Heads is all she'll eat, so be it.
Treats-wise, dried tripe (it's about 4% fat), and raw carrots
She'll also get low-fat yoghurt.
This seems to be working really well, I haven't seen her in such good form for a couple of years now. We've had no bouts of soreness or ickiness since I made a concerted effort to cut right back on the fat.

What sort of foods do you have to avoid because of high phos levels?

boomerang

Anything with bone in it has phos through the roof. This table from my favourite website is really handy:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneytable.html

We're big fans of dried tripe and low-fat yoghurt in this house!

tk123

Posted in the chillout zone but we went along today and the vet (well student I think) and his supervisor both agreed that as he has no clinical signs there was no point in repeating the bloods or doing the scan. They're saying he should go on a 'commercial' food to reduce fatty acids...I had been feeding chicken backs and drumsticks both with skin on for a few months so blame this on the weight gain...switched to duck necks but ran out and was using up and old stock of skinned chicken backs when he would have had the bloods taken so think they added to the blood results. I'd love to stick with the duck necks with fat/skin trimmed off (will feed less meat and more veg) but not sure if they're too fatty?

misschoo

Hi my Mums dog had Chronic pancreatitis in March. She nearly died BUT this was due to the face that it was picked up late. She had lost piles of weight & was nearly like a skeleton so she was nearly at end stage. In ICU in vet hospital very touch & go but she pulled through thank god. She is now diabetic as a result of it but managing very well. Your dog may be suffering from acute pancreatitis so this wouldn't be as bad as my Mums as its caught quicker. Best of luck xx