street fights

alyssum

Would you guys agree 80% of street fights go to ground grappling? Would martial artists not be able to stop the agressor while upright?

cowzerp

alyssum wrote: »

Would you guys agree 80% of street fights go to ground grappling? Would martial artists not be able to stop the agressor while upright?

No it's complete bs propaganda that actually came from stats that police took from their altercations where they are trying to apprehend people, obviously they are going to try take person down to handcuff them, 20% of the time they don't need too.

In reality most fights are like really bad Boxing matches with windmills aplenty thrown and the odd head lock, if a lad been dropped counts as going to ground that would bump up the %, actual grappling in street fights is rare bar that head lock i mentioned.

alyssum

cowzerp wrote: »

No it's complete bs propaganda that actually came from stats that police took from their altercations where they are trying to apprehend people, obviously they are going to try take person down to handcuff them, 20% of the time they don't need too.

In reality most fights are like really bad Boxing matches with windmills aplenty thrown and the odd head lock, if a lad been dropped counts as going to ground that would bump up the %, actual grappling in street fights is rare bar that head lock i mentioned.

I agree but it was not in police i saw it. i think it was in a book on self defence but the writer may have been policeman

I have not seen only two fights I recall. Both were the agressor spending 10-15 mins abusing and threatening and one slap ending it. In one of them the guy was knocked to the ground with theh slap. IIt seemed strange to me as i would have thought martial artista would fight in a more precise way. i dd a little king fu a long time ago and they used to emphasise speedy blows and not being caught to be grappled.

Alos does anyone know a good book on de escalating a potentially violent situation

Doug Cartel

I have a feeling the vast majority of streetfights end in shouting and posturing, with the odd bruised ego.

If you want a book on de-escalation, I've heard Verbal Judo is supposed to be good. I haven't read it myself, so I don't know. Also it's a book about negotiating in general, not specifically self defence situations, so maybe it's not exactly what you are looking for.

cowzerp

alyssum wrote: »

I agree but it was not in police i saw it. i think it was in a book on self defence but the writer may have been policeman

I have not seen only two fights I recall. Both were the agressor spending 10-15 mins abusing and threatening and one slap ending it. In one of them the guy was knocked to the ground with theh slap. IIt seemed strange to me as i would have thought martial artista would fight in a more precise way. i dd a little king fu a long time ago and they used to emphasise speedy blows and not being caught to be grappled.

Alos does anyone know a good book on de escalating a potentially violent situation

The Gracie's use the stat all the time, but it came from Police reports, Totally false and nothing to do with 1 on 1 street fights, but it suited their selling of their system

If a trained wrestler wants to take you down, he'll take you down, but like all martial arts, most trained people don't be in street fights, most street fights are just random scummers and the odd time they mess with trained fighters and get bashed.

alyssum

cowzerp wrote: »

The Gracie's use the stat all the time, but it came from Police reports, Totally false and nothing to do with 1 on 1 street fights, but it suited their selling of their system

If a trained wrestler wants to take you down, he'll take you down, but like all martial arts, most trained people don't be in street fights, most street fights are just random scummers and the odd time they mess with trained fighters and get bashed.

probably

Would a wrestler take down a martial arter?

Big Davey

In a street fight you always want to stay on your feet so other attackers can't kick you in the head. The last place I would want to be is on the ground. Most fights end very quick in my opinion the first man to land a decent shot usually a punch is almost always the winner. People like Cowzer know what they are talking about forget the films and the books street fights are ugly and brutal if the people know what they are doing and most of the ideas people preach about shots to the knee or groin shots etc don't land clean anyway on an aggressive opponent. Chin down try to pick a clean shot if you can, be first, if your reflexes are very good try to block punches with your elbows to cause the attacker to hurt or brake their hands etc

Big Davey

alyssum wrote: »

Would you guys agree 80% of street fights go to ground grappling? Would martial artists not be able to stop the agressor while upright?

I would say 80% of school yard fights go to the ground.

cletus

alyssum wrote: »

probably

Would a wrestler take down a martial arter?

Yes

Gumbi

I'd just like to point out, OP, that you seem to be viewing this issue in a very black and white manner. It's important to appreciate the larger picture.

alyssum

cletus wrote: »

Yes

would the martial art guy not be able to avoid being caught?

Doug Cartel

alyssum wrote: »

would the martial art guy not be able to avoid being caught?

Depends on how much practice he has at avoiding a committed take-down attempt by someone who knows what they're doing.

alyssum

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Depends on how much practice he has at avoiding a committed take-down attempt by someone who knows what they're doing.

Ok thanks my op was about streets anyway and not experienced wrestlers. I would have thought an experieced matrial arts person would not be taken to ground 80% of time

Doug Cartel

alyssum wrote: »

I would have thought an experieced matrial arts person would not be taken to ground 80% of time

Depends what they have experience in.

alyssum

Gumbi wrote: »

I'd just like to point out, OP, that you seem to be viewing this issue in a very black and white manner. It's important to appreciate the larger picture.

fair comment be free to add any shades of gray you think necesary

RainMaker

Check UFC 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc

If a person who has only trained stand-up comes up against somebody who wants to take the fight to the ground, the fight will go to the ground... most traditional martial arts do not train take-down defence, so they just wouldn't be able to stop it

In street fights it would be better to avoid the ground, but then again, if the fight ends up there, it's handy to know how to get back up!

arybvtcw0eolkf

alyssum wrote: »

would the martial art guy not be able to avoid being caught?

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Depends on how much practice he has at avoiding a committed take-down attempt by someone who knows what they're doing.

If you can kick harder & faster than a boxer can block, if you can throw quicker than a boxer can punch and if you can punch quicker than a Judoka/wrestler can clinch you're pretty much in with a shout

But regardless of all that in my experience whether a street fight goes to the ground or not, all else being equal the one who wants to win the fight is usually the one who wins the fight!.

Again in my experience kids/school yard fights go to the ground because wrestling comes pretty much natural to children ~ put a child in a Judo or BJJ class and they'll take it grappling like a duck to water... The learning curve for teaching children to strike is much steeper.

That said I don't full understand why adults stay standing, probably because at least one is sensible enough to not want to fight or has learned through bitter experience that going to the ground means taking a beating.

Plus kids are usually cheered on and the fight lasts longer (unless a responsible adult acts quickly), whereas an adult fight will normally be broken up by peacemakers (most groups have them).

alyssum

Gage Chilly Lamb wrote: »

If you can kick harder & faster than a boxer can block, if you can throw quicker than a boxer can punch and if you can punch quicker than a Judoka/wrestler can clinch you're pretty much in with a shout

But regardless of all that in my experience whether a street fight goes to the ground or not, all else being equal the one who wants to win the fight is usually the one who wins the fight!.

Again in my experience kids/school yard fights go to the ground because wrestling comes pretty much natural to children ~ put a child in a Judo or BJJ class and they'll take it grappling like a duck to water... The learning curve for teaching children to strike is much steeper.

That said I don't full understand why adults stay standing, probably because at least one is sensible enough to not want to fight or has learned through bitter experience that going to the ground means taking a beating.

Plus kids are usually cheered on and the fight lasts longer (unless a responsible adult acts quickly), whereas an adult fight will normally be broken up by peacemakers (most groups have them).

the problem in street fight is that all else isvnot equal. Self defense books often says that one with the will to do what ever needs doing to survive will win. I cannot agree as the thug may be fighting every weekend. I do not think it as simple as will

arybvtcw0eolkf

alyssum wrote: »

the problem in street fight is that all else isvnot equal. Self defense books often says that one with the will to do what ever needs doing to survive will win. I cannot agree as the thug may be fighting every weekend. I do not think it as simple as will

1. I've never read a self defence book, and never intend to either.

2. You're only repeating what I said, the one who wants to win the fight is usually the one who wins the fight.

3. So what if a thug is fighting every weekend, what is he (or she) fighting ~ in my experience its usually the weakest members of society they're fighting, ie muggins, bullying, punishments etc

If you're genuinely worried about self defence check out some local martial arts clubs and forget about learning from books, after that its a little bit of 'cop on ~ ie avoiding places you're likely to be attacked, don't wak down the streets chatting/texting on your expensive smart phone... That last one I can not stress enough, I work on a nightclub door on Dublin's quays and almost every weekend I witness someone who has been violently mugged for their phone.. Unlike most think there's no chat lead up to a mugging, mostly its a quick punch in the face and your phone is gone.

Thats just one example of a mugging, but a bit of common sense will get you out of more trouble than any amount of martial arts training will.

gimmick

In a drunken street fight, if someone goes to take you down, if you are anyway aware of the situation, you raise your knee and the fight is over.

Over simplified no doubt, but look at how many fight start, at least one fella will drop his head to a kneeable level.

Doug Cartel

gimmick wrote: »

Over simplified no doubt,

No doubt there at all.