Wedge grooves

Moggaman

I have mizuno mx 24s and have played them for about 6 years . They are in good nick but recently I won a 50 degree mizuno mp t4 wedge and I notice that the spin it creates way out performs my pw which is 45 degree. My question is how do I know if the grooves in my wedges / 9 iron are good or need replacing ?

gcurran97

the best thing to do is to practice with them. Take note of the ball flight.Does it come out low with a lot of spin, or does it launch high with little spin? if the ball has very little spin and you no longer feel in control i would think about replacing them.

kingcobra

Well with a full swing, you'd tend to get more spin with a 50 degree club than a 45 degree club, a specially built wedges tend to spin more than irons/wedges that come in irons sets. Really all it takes is a quick look at the club, see if there is much wear marks on it, are the grooves still sharp etc. When you're noticeably not getting spin with a club, and where this lack of spin is evidently putting you at a disadvantage, you should get a new club.

John Divney

I really wouldn't worry about grooves in a 9 iron unless they are in total bits. A good lie on a fairway, the grooves are not what gives spin, it's how you hit the ball, angle of attack, and how much spin your swing naturally puts on the ball,

From the rough, grooves take water and grass, preventing 'flyers'


Depending on the angle you hit down on a 9 iron, because it is a full shot with power, it should be stopping near it's pitch mark on a soft green. With a high ball flight which most amaterus have with their 9 irons, the spin is irrelvant anyway as the roll out is very little.

DuckSlice

John Divney wrote: »

I really wouldn't worry about grooves in a 9 iron unless they are in total bits. A good lie on a fairway, the grooves are not what gives spin, it's how you hit the ball, angle of attack, and how much spin your swing naturally puts on the ball,

From the rough, grooves take water and grass, preventing 'flyers'


Depending on the angle you hit down on a 9 iron, because it is a full shot with power, it should be stopping near it's pitch mark on a soft green. With a high ball flight which most amaterus have with their 9 irons, the spin is irrelvant anyway as the roll out is very little.

Grooves give you spin. It's what grips the ball as you hit it. It's why you get minimal spin out of rough because the ball doesn't contact the grooves as much.

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

Grooves give you spin. It's what grips the ball as you hit it. It's why you get minimal spin out of rough because the ball doesn't contact the grooves as much.

Nope, he was right.
Grooves are there to allow the clubface to grip the ball when there is non-ball junk in the way of the contact.
i.e. the rough

Benny Cake

etxp wrote: »

Grooves give you spin. It's what grips the ball as you hit it. It's why you get minimal spin out of rough because the ball doesn't contact the grooves as much.

Incorrect. The primary function of the grooves is to remove interference between the clubhead and the ball (grass, moisture etc.)

Think formula 1 where they use "slicks" for best grip and only bring out the grooved tyres in wet conditions.....

DuckSlice

GreeBo wrote: »

Nope, he was right.
Grooves are there to allow the clubface to grip the ball when there is non-ball junk in the way of the contact.
i.e. the rough

i know they are to take moisture and crap away when in the rough, but surely they have some impact on what spin goes on the ball. i bought a new wedge recently and there was a noticable difference on the way the ball stops, and i havent changed my swing. i am aware that the manufactures will hype things up a bit, like spin-milled grooves, and zip grooves, but they must have some impact on spin.

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

i know they are to take moisture and crap away when in the rough, but surely they have some impact on what spin goes on the ball. i bought a new wedge recently and there was a noticable difference on the way the ball stops, and i havent changed my swing. i am aware that the manufactures will hype things up a bit, like spin-milled grooves, and zip grooves, but they must have some impact on spin.

New spin milled faces are much more uniform than the old faces, thus there is more contact on the ball and it will spin more.
Off a clean lie a spin milled face with no grooves will spin more than a face with groove, but as soon as you get other crap involved (grass, water, etc) then the no grooves face wont fly the ball at all (think slicks during the rain in F1)

DuckSlice

GreeBo wrote: »

New spin milled faces are much more uniform than the old faces, thus there is more contact on the ball and it will spin more.
Off a clean lie a spin milled face with no grooves will spin more than a face with groove, but as soon as you get other crap involved (grass, water, etc) then the no grooves face wont fly the ball at all (think slicks during the rain in F1)

Learn something new everyday. Never thought to compare them to tyres!

Senecio

This is all true on full & 3/4 shots. However grooves do aid in adding spin on short chips where there isn't enough club head speed to compress the ball against the face. Even from a perfect lie with no water/grass to clear away from impact.

GreeBo

Senecio wrote: »

This is all true on full & 3/4 shots. However grooves do aid in adding spin on short chips where there isn't enough club head speed to compress the ball against the face. Even from a perfect lie with no water/grass to clear away from impact.

If there ball isnt being compressed then how are the grooves coming into play at all?
The clubface is essentially smooth, with gaps. Without the ball being squished against it I dont see how the grooves are coming into play on "slow" shots...?

Senecio

GreeBo wrote: »

If there ball isnt being compressed then how are the grooves coming into play at all?
The clubface is essentially smooth, with gaps. Without the ball being squished against it I dont see how the grooves are coming into play on "slow" shots...?

When there is compression, a flat surface and a grooved surface will grip and spin the the ball the same amount, that we agree on.

Without compression, the physics are different and surface friction comes into play.

From experience, I have two 56* wedges. One new, the other is >5 years old with very little grooves left. They both spin the same on full shots, no noticeable difference between the two. On shots of less than 25 yards, the new wedge spins more.

GreeBo

Senecio wrote: »

When there is compression, a flat surface and a grooved surface will grip and spin the the ball the same amount, that we agree on.

Without compression, the physics are different and surface friction comes into play.

From experience, I have two 56* wedges. One new, the other is >5 years old with very little grooves left. They both spin the same on full shots, no noticeable difference between the two. On shots of less than 25 yards, the new wedge spins more.

Surface friction is always in play...otherwise what is happening?

Are they both the same wedge?
Both spin-milled faces for example?

Senecio

GreeBo wrote: »

Surface friction is always in play...otherwise what is happening?

Are they both the same wedge?
Both spin-milled faces for example?

Not identical, but same make. Arguably my 5+ yr old TM Y-Cutter wedge had more aggressive grooves than today's conforming wedges when it was new.

Friction is always in play, but in the case of a high speed impact where the ball compresses against the club face it become a negligible contributor. As speeds decrease and compression is almost non existent, it starts to play more of a role in spin generation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it would be the difference between a chip that releases through the back of the green and one that stops dead. But in my experience it does produce a small, but noticeable difference.