Plea to Wedding photographers - Put some thought into your site!

fret_wimp2

Im in the throws of wedding planning and my job is finding a wedding photographer I like.

Im approaching it like I approach purchasing anything, lots of research, viewing sites, offerings, comparing and contrast of quality, packages and pricings.

Of all the things ive ever had to research ( and I do this as part of my job) wedding photographer is so far the most frustrating. The reason - weeding photographers seem to put either zero, or way to much thought into their sites, and the fact is I have looked at about 40 sites today and more than a few potentials have lost my custom.

Your site is the ONLY way you will first engage me and make me interested in booking you. When this is your main connection with your customer and gaining new business, you should spend time and effort ensuring its perfect.

This is a bit of a rant, but hopefully it will help some guys to fix some real issues im seeing:

1. use lo res jpgs for thumbnails. im viewing a lot of photographer sites, if your gallery takes more than 20 seconds to load, you have a problem as im likely to just close your site.

Likewise for larger images, only make them as big as they need to be. I was shocked to see some photos of over 1mb! that should never be required on a website.

2. Flash. don't use it. it doesn't work on my mobile devices, and its slow as hell to load. again, if your site doesn't work on my device or load quickly, im gone, you have lost my custom. this may sound impatient, but I have a lot of potential photographers to view. im not hanging about watching a website load one photo at a time.

3. Too many photos or two few.
Galleries of 100+ photos are no good. Im not going to look at 100 photos. likewise, 5 photos is not a good representation of your work. 20-30 of your best photos across many events is enough to let me see if I like your style.

4. Adds on your site.
Don't do them. im there to potentially book you, not a hotel, chauffeur or anything else.

5.Navigation
No menus and submenus. Keep it brutally simple. page for each area you cover. A gallery of your best 20-30 in each area, a bio and a pricelist ( if you put up a pricelist). it can be simple and still tasteful. again, if I have to spend a minute or more searching for what im looking for, im very likely to move on to another photographer site.

5. Pricing
This is more controversial and I appreciate many don't want to put up prices, and that's fair enough. but im planning based on your style, quality and if you fit into my budget. if like your photos, but have to wait days to see if you have a package that could fit in my budget im much less likely to follow up with you. Again, this is quite subjective, but its how I work.


That's all so far. sorry for the rant, but I can tell you for a fact that there are more than a few pro irish photographers who have lost my business today for some very silly and easy to resolve reasons.

pete4130

You do know that only about 1 or 2 users on this forum actually shoot weddings regularly because believe it or not....there is more to photography and being a photographer than taking photos of weddings!

It sounds like most of the sites you've looked at would be the type of "photographer" that got a digital SLR camera not so long ago, a flash gun and thought they'd give weddings a go. They got paid some money for it and now make it their business. These types usually have no real idea what they are doing in regards to using a camera, capturing a wedding, let alone building a site that looks professional.

It brings down the overall standard of wedding photography as a whole and makes it harder for the good, experienced wedding photographers that have done the hard yards over the years to get noticed and make a living.

So what you've ranted about is basically true but not uncommon at all. Posting about it on boards photography forum definitely won't change anything but it might make you feel better knowing you've had some stern words with us photographers (that don't shoot weddings).

magicbastarder

i don't think the post comes across as a go at boards posters at all, but a general rant at wedding photographers out there 'in the cloud'. why any one poster or photographer here would think it was aimed at them (unless they were actually someone who lost business as per the OP) is beyond me.

fret_wimp2

Im aware there are a few wedding photographers on these board, since posting this up a few mins ago ive gotten a few private messages from people asking for me to review their sites.

so I wont get the message to all irish photogrphers, but it will hit home with some, and you never know, might help future ones on their photography site development.

Also, most of the sites ive had issues with came from the wedding photography thread here on boards.

tricky D

All those 5 points are bang on the money. They are common mistakes on many similar websites, not just for photography ones, and their occurrence has little to do with the competency and professionalism of the tog.

fret_wimp2

tricky D wrote: »

All those 5 points are bang on the money. They are common mistakes on many similar websites, not just for photography ones, and their occurrence has little to do with the competency and professionalism of the tog.

I agree completely, the photographers could be very very capable. unfortunately i will have closed their site and so will probably never know.

Wabbit Ears

pete4130 wrote: »

You do know that only about 1 or 2 users on this forum actually shoot weddings regularly because believe it or not....there is more to photography and being a photographer than taking photos of weddings!

It sounds like most of the sites you've looked at would be the type of "photographer" that got a digital SLR camera not so long ago, a flash gun and thought they'd give weddings a go. They got paid some money for it and now make it their business. These types usually have no real idea what they are doing in regards to using a camera, capturing a wedding, let alone building a site that looks professional.

It brings down the overall standard of wedding photography as a whole and makes it harder for the good, experienced wedding photographers that have done the hard yards over the years to get noticed and make a living.

So what you've ranted about is basically true but not uncommon at all. Posting about it on boards photography forum definitely won't change anything but it might make you feel better knowing you've had some stern words with us photographers (that don't shoot weddings).

I honestly do not think that you read the same post I just read...

@ OP. Good post, good points well made.

Wabbit Ears

So, Out of curiosity I went over to teh wedding Photographer thread and thought I'd see if any of the photographers were local.

Practically NONE of the photographers websites say where there catchment area is. I don't want to open a discussion with someone and find out they are in cork and I'm in Dublin. The contact page should give a business address, not just one of those godawful webpage forms.

Also stating video games as a personal interest will make me never hire you, ever. ever.

AnCatDubh

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

etc..., etc..., etc...

Wait a minute. Are you seriously suggesting that photographers should move with the times? Holy flock batman, the industry just wouldn't be the same. Don't forget to book the ole "happy couple in the glass looking down on the guests". Its a killer shot. Gets them every time. :pac:

More seriously, Interesting post.

Future = mobile = change of approach needed for photogrpahers, and seeing as the professional photographer model hasn't really changed in the last maybe 50-60 years.

To summarise your 'rant' (which is mostly reasonable i think) - "would ya ever feicin outsource your online presence you feckin eejit to someone who knows sh1t about this stuff". Yes, seriously. I agree.

thebaz

if I was looking for a wedding photographer , I would use reliable word of mouth recommendations , rather than randomly search the web - seams a bit of a random rant to me - wedding photographers are like most professions - there is the very good, the average and the bad.

dinneenp

Theres a thread in website/design forum
where you can ask people to review your site.

fret_wimp2

thebaz wrote: »

if I was looking for a wedding photographer , I would use reliable word of mouth recommendations , rather than randomly search the web - seams a bit of a random rant to me - wedding photographers are like most professions - there is the very good, the average and the bad.

I would only use word of mouth as a supplement to some proof, I.e. some real images that I am impressed with.

I say this as 2 relations recommended a photographer who is a local. The photographer in question is moderately affordable to be sure, but I don't rate any of the albums or work I have viewed by them. I could do better and I consider myself a rank amateur.

But as the photographer is pretty cheap, and gave passable photos they come highly recommended.

Proof of a good photographer starts with good images that I would be happy to receive.

Corkbah

OP .... the problem here as I see it is you are searching incorrectly.

firstly you need to know what you want from a wedding photographer ? you need to know about different styles, etc ....then ask a photographer if he/she can provide what you want within your budget, and look at their portfolio and see if they are capable of providing consistent good images.

arrange to meet with the photographer and see if you get along .... no point in hiring someone if you cant follow his/her directions or if he won't pose you up properly...if you cant get along .... dont hire him/her.

Wabbit Ears

Corkbah wrote: »

OP .... the problem here as I see it is you are searching incorrectly.

.

Thereis no such thing as an average internet user doing it 'incorrectly' and is kind of the point of the whole thread..

What you just described is what the OP does when he has narrowed down his list to a much smaller number of photographers.

So think of the site like a CV. A lot of CVs just get binned for any number or small reasons and a choice, vetted, few get called for interview. All the OP is saying is reasons why many of the websites get binned.

Corkbah

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Thereis no such thing as an average internet user doing it 'incorrectly' and is kind of the point of the whole thread..

What you just described is what the OP does when he has narrowed down his list to a much smaller number of photographers.

So think of the site like a CV. A lot of CVs just get binned for any number or small reasons and a choice, vetted, few get called for interview. All the OP is saying is reasons why many of the websites get binned.

he is searching without knowing what he wants first .... which means his search to find a photographer is pointless unless he knows what he wants from the photographer.

he can make a list of photographers all he wants but if none of them are able to re-create the style of images that he(and his bride to be) wants ...then the entire list is ruined.

its very common amongst people hiring photographers that they do not actually know what they want ... someone to take pics !! many of us on here have had it from PR companies and different commercial briefs throughout the years.... and many of us have told the various people .... how can you expect me to take the right image when you wont tell me what image you want !!

different photographers have different styles, some will only shoot formal, some will only do "reportage/candid" ...some will do a mix....some post process the hell out of it.(in my opinion)

magicbastarder

Corkbah wrote: »

its very common amongst people hiring photographers that they do not actually know what they want ... someone to take pics !!

when you are dealing with a customer who has usually never sought such a service before, it's hardly surprising that they're often not sure what to ask for.

a photographer who understands this and caters for this sort of customer would do better (i expect) than one who rolls their eyes at a customer who is trying to decide what they want.

fret_wimp2

I know exactly what I am looking for. In fact I know the photographer that I want but he is based in the UK and so budget doesn't allow to bring him over.

But I know his style as I attended a wedding he did, I can view his site, view his photos, and I am looking for something similar. And I have found one photographer in Ireland who is excellent and has a similar style and attitude to weddings as the guy I really want so there is currently 1 irish tog on my shortlist.

but regardless, even if I wasn't sure of what I want, by looking at a select gallery of a phogographers best shots, I can quickly tell if I like their personal style or not. I don't see that in the majority of sites.

Again as a photographer, your only way to engage me is when I first click on your site to see your work and style. if that's not represented well, your site is crossed off the list. next. so you can say im doing it wrong. but im the customer. im looking for a good example of your work and style. if you don't make that easily available to this ignorant customer, its you, the photographer who loses out, not me.

Corkbah

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

I know exactly what I am looking for. In fact I know the photographer that I want but he is based in the UK and so budget doesn't allow to bring him over.

But I know his style as I attended a wedding he did, I can view his site, view his photos, and I am looking for something similar. And I have found one photographer in Ireland who is excellent and has a similar style and attitude to weddings as the guy I really want so there is currently 1 irish tog on my shortlist.

but regardless, even if I wasn't sure of what I want, by looking at a select gallery of a phogographers best shots, I can quickly tell if I like their personal style or not. I don't see that in the majority of sites.

Again as a photographer, your only way to engage me is when I first click on your site to see your work and style. if that's not represented well, your site is crossed off the list. next. so you can say im doing it wrong. but im the customer. im looking for a good example of your work and style. if you don't make that easily available to this ignorant customer, its you, the photographer who loses out, not me.

right so you have your guy ...but cant afford him and want a cheaper alternative, chances are his prices are out of your range because his style is out of your range and even if you get a similar style photographer over in Ireland ... he wont be the same so you may end out disappointed.

have you asked the English guy if he is willing to travel or if he can provide you with a discount or payment plan so you can have the guy you want for your wedding.

you could post a link to his website and let us here help you find a similar style photographer or post in the weddings section of boards.

fret_wimp2

Corkbah wrote: »

right so you have your guy ...but cant afford him and want a cheaper alternative, chances are his prices are out of your range because his style is out of your range and even if you get a similar style photographer over in Ireland ... he wont be the same so you may end out disappointed.

have you asked the English guy if he is willing to travel or if he can provide you with a discount or payment plan so you can have the guy you want for your wedding.

you could post a link to his website and let us here help you find a similar style photographer or post in the weddings section of boards.

I have chatted with him, gotten a price but it is much more than I can afford.

So basically yes, budget is tight and to pay for travel and accommodation pushes him out of the allotted budget.


I totally get that another photographer wont be the same. But another photographer that has a similar style will be fine. Like I said I have found one who's style is something I like. I have to meet with him to see if he agrees with what im looking for.

Id like to have had a few other options.

All this is beside the point of the thread though. IF I go to a site and its taking ages to even see your style or a good representation of your work, I wont be even considering hiring you. that's the point.

PixelTrawler

What the OP is basically saying, and it applies not just to photographers is "I looked at your brochure (which is all a website is in this space), and it sucks"

Bar word of mouth, which will probably lead to wanting to check out the photographers site to see a portfolio, the website is the primary marketing tool to people and if its not up to scratch, you probably wont get the business.

Thats a pretty simple message from a potentially paying customer.

(I've been a web developer now for 12 years and this is all too common still which is unforgivable in 2013. Even small businesses need a digital strategy. Its even worse for a photographer in what is a visual business, and they probably have lovely content to fill a site!)

ImagenEstilo

Fret, I think this is an excellent post and an excellent set of observations. Something that all web site owners should take on board. To me this is common sense. If you cannot nail your shop window then you might as well throw your hat at it.

So, a simple site that is easy to navigate, a quick to load gallery with a suitable number of web sized images (now that I think of it I really need to update my galleries), no flash, no adds.

Yep, this all sounds pretty logical stuff to me. What is the issue to everyone else, I don't get it.

Great post

Corkbah

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

Fret, I think this is an excellent post and an excellent set of observations. Something that all web site owners should take on board. To me this is common sense. If you cannot nail your shop window then you might as well throw your hat at it.

So, a simple site that is easy to navigate, a quick to load gallery with a suitable number of web sized images (now that I think of it I really need to update my galleries), no flash, no adds.

Yep, this all sounds pretty logical stuff to me. What is the issue to everyone else, I don't get it.

Great post

he is complaining about not being able to afford the photographer he wants and cant find a cheap alternative (although he might have one) .... in the meantime he wants to complain about the standard of websites created by people who claim to be photographers.

The reality is that he is searching online - in a place where anyone can create testimonials and anyone can use another persons images ....in a place where websites are made using wordpress etc because its cheap...many "photographers" starting out use a cheap way to create a website and cut corners rather than paying a couple of thousand to create a bespoke website which will be functional and creative.

has he made contact ...physical contact ..an actual meeting ...with any of the "bad website" photographers ...to actually see if they are bonefide photographers or just someone with a camera trying to start a sideline business earning money ?

if someone wants to complain about themselves not being able to afford the photographer that they want ... let them....as long as they dont tar us all with the same brush when they make sweeping statements about photographers websites - when he is unable to 100% confirm that the websites are actual full-time working photographers and not someone with a sideline business.

fret_wimp2

Corkbah wrote: »

he is complaining about not being able to afford the photographer he wants and cant find a cheap alternative (although he might have one) .... in the meantime he wants to complain about the standard of websites created by people who claim to be photographers.

The reality is that he is searching online - in a place where anyone can create testimonials and anyone can use another persons images ....in a place where websites are made using wordpress etc because its cheap...many "photographers" starting out use a cheap way to create a website and cut corners rather than paying a couple of thousand to create a bespoke website which will be functional and creative.

has he made contact ...physical contact ..an actual meeting ...with any of the "bad website" photographers ...to actually see if they are bonefide photographers or just someone with a camera trying to start a sideline business earning money ?

if someone wants to complain about themselves not being able to afford the photographer that they want ... let them....as long as they dont tar us all with the same brush when they make sweeping statements about photographers websites - when he is unable to 100% confirm that the websites are actual full-time working photographers and not someone with a sideline business.

Corkbah, I don't know what thread your reading. I never once complained about not being able to afford one photographer or another.

When you asked why I was searching online for a photographer, I gave you my reason. No complaining.

You continually seem to miss the point of this thread. I'm a customer, with money to spend. On looking for a photographer to give my money too, I find it very difficult to rate their work and narrow down a selection of togs to meet due to badly laid out sites.

I then have pointers on what I found wrong, in hope it will help people in future.

Simple as.

If these sites are not legit photographers, it doesn't matter. Fact is they are bad sites. And I went through about 50 sites, they all can't be amateurs.


Your telling me I'm doing it all wrong. It's 2013 dude, your site is your shop window. If it's a mess, you have a problem.

Did I hit a nerve or something? Do you have a site that needs work but won't admit it? Or are you unwilling to adapt to the reality that you need a good site in today's online world?

If you can't see the real point of this thread as everyone else can, I'm not going to waste time explaining it again.

Wabbit Ears

Corkbah wrote: »

he is complaining about not being able to afford the photographer he wants and cant find a cheap alternative (although he might have one) .... in the meantime he wants to complain about the standard of websites created by people who claim to be photographers.

The reality is that he is searching online - in a place where anyone can create testimonials and anyone can use another persons images ....in a place where websites are made using wordpress etc because its cheap...many "photographers" starting out use a cheap way to create a website and cut corners rather than paying a couple of thousand to create a bespoke website which will be functional and creative.

has he made contact ...physical contact ..an actual meeting ...with any of the "bad website" photographers ...to actually see if they are bonefide photographers or just someone with a camera trying to start a sideline business earning money ?

if someone wants to complain about themselves not being able to afford the photographer that they want ... let them....as long as they dont tar us all with the same brush when they make sweeping statements about photographers websites - when he is unable to 100% confirm that the websites are actual full-time working photographers and not someone with a sideline business.

WTF did I just read.. talk about a random rant about things completely unrelated to anything discussed in this thread.

TTWNF

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

I know exactly what I am looking for. In fact I know the photographer that I want but he is based in the UK and so budget doesn't allow to bring him over.

can you post a link to this photographers website? just curious to see the style & standard of the wedding photographer you are looking for

i'm a student myself so this thread is brilliant to see how commercial photography works from a customer point of view!

fret_wimp2

I'm afraid not. I'm not out to single out photographers in this thread, be they good, bad or other.

Thread is a general observation on sites for Irish photographers that I've been considering.

TTWNF

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

I'm afraid not. I'm not out to single out photographers in this thread, be they good, bad or other.

Thread is a general observation on sites for Irish photographers that I've been considering.

fair enough but the photographer is in the UK and you've already said a lot of these irish photographers are listed in the wedding photography thread so you have singled them out!

thefizz

Surely if the UK's web site is as good as you say, there shouldn't be a big deal about providing a link? It may help the togs here see how they can improve their poor sites.

mamabear82

Did you choose a photographer yet or are you still looking? I can recommend someone if you are