People shooting birds of prey

Mark Spilane

I was playing golf at Roganstown today and just happened to mention that I havent seen the buzzards or red kites in a couple of weeks.
One of they guys told me that people had been seen people shooting at them in the field behind on a few different days the week before. At least one was killed and the others seem to be gone.
Disgusting. Between that and poisoning these birds will disappear again.

downonthefarm

Do the kites hover like the kestrel? seen some bird of prey the other day.it was actually feeding and i disturbed it.it took off making a high pitched call

Mark Spilane

downonthefarm wrote: »

Do the kites hover like the kestrel? seen some bird of prey the other day.it was actually feeding and i disturbed it.it took off making a high pitched call

I havent seen them hover. They turn in tighter circles than buzzards and have a V shaped tail. Dead easy to spot.

OpenYourEyes

Mark Spilane wrote: »

I was playing golf at Roganstown today and just happened to mention that I havent seen the buzzards or red kites in a couple of weeks.
One of they guys told me that people had been seen people shooting at them in the field behind on a few different days the week before. At least one was killed and the others seem to be gone.
Disgusting. Between that and poisoning these birds will disappear again.

I hope you encouraged them to report it to the Gardai and the local NPWS ranger - or even mention it to John Lusby (Birdwatch Ireland Raptor Officer). Even if it was too late to catch them, they'll have a better idea where to keep an eye out, they might have an idea who did it, or they might find some evidence in the area that helps get a prosecution.

Even an anonymous tip off to an NPWS Ranger I'm sure could be helpful, but people really need to be encouraged to report these types of things if we're ever going to stop them!

The worst thing is, Buzzards eat mostly Crows and Rats - they're great to have around the place! Some farmers are under the wrong impression that they'd take a lamb or something like that, but thats not true - they couldn't even if they wanted to! They're much too light to be of any danger to any livestock.

downonthefarm wrote: »

Do the kites hover like the kestrel? seen some bird of prey the other day.it was actually feeding and i disturbed it.it took off making a high pitched call

Buzzards can hover in a somewhat similar way to Kestrels, but they need more of a wind to do it!

Bsal

That's a bloody disgrace, are you sure that it was birds of prey that were being shot at?

Half-cocked

There's a lot of pigeon shooting this time of the year that could have been mistaken for shooting BOP's. I've had buzzards drop down onto shot pigeons and steal my dinner. It's easy to hear shots and not see what is being targeted. However, if anyone even suspects BOP are being shot at it needs to be reported. I really hope the OP's friend was mistaken.

tittybiscuits

Was the word put out to farmers/gun clubs in the area when red kite were reintroduced? I used to live about a mile from the "secret location" where 13 birds were released not too far from Roganstown (well a few miles at most) and never heard anything about it until after. Just wondering if they've been reassured they're not a threat. I used to see them hunt regularly in close proximity to sheep and there's no way they'd take a lamb or anything. My mates dad is a sheep farmer and says there's more threat to lambs from hooded crows.

I mean I just can't understand why anyone would consider them a threat to anything bigger than a rabbit. Plus therer's enough rats and rabbits around to keep them fed without them going for anything else

Birdnuts

tittybiscuits wrote: »

Was the word put out to farmers/gun clubs in the area when red kite were reintroduced? I used to live about a mile from the "secret location" where 13 birds were released not too far from Roganstown (well a few miles at most) and never heard anything about it until after. Just wondering if they've been reassured they're not a threat. I used to see them hunt regularly in close proximity to sheep and there's no way they'd take a lamb or anything. My mates dad is a sheep farmer and says there's more threat to lambs from hooded crows.

I mean I just can't understand why anyone would consider them a threat to anything bigger than a rabbit. Plus therer's enough rats and rabbits around to keep them fed without them going for anything else

AFAIK there was an info campaign allright and the Golden Eagle Trust has regularly thanked farmers and other landowners for their co-operation with the project in North County Dublin.

I think HC is right about what probably happened. There is a lot of tillage farming in North County Dublin and people will be out with shotguns keeping crows and pigeons in check what with the run-in to the harvest. I can understand people being concerned hearing gun-shots in the vicinity of regular
BOP haunts, but I think(or at least hope!!) this was just a wrong impression by the observer.

JustAThought

Last year Fingal county council put down rat poison next to the protected wildlife/bird sanctuary in Turvey. All allotment holders in turvey were notified of it - Red Kites etc eat the rats as they die from the poison .... Unbelievable stuff. It's a miracle there are any left at all.

Birdnuts

JustAThought wrote: »

Last year Fingal county council put down rat poison next to the protected wildlife/bird sanctuary in Turvey. All allotment holders in turvey were notified of it - Red Kites etc eat the rats as they die from the poison .... Unbelievable stuff. It's a miracle there are any left at all.

I believe there were discussions between FCC and the GET about this issue last year. I don't know were things resolved but AFAIK no more Red Kites have been picked up since the unfortunate deaths of a number of kites from secondary poisoning early last year.

Capercaille

JustAThought wrote: »

Last year Fingal county council put down rat poison next to the protected wildlife/bird sanctuary in Turvey. All allotment holders in turvey were notified of it - Red Kites etc eat the rats as they die from the poison .... Unbelievable stuff. It's a miracle there are any left at all.

Doesn't surprise me in this Country. One Department releases the bird the other Department kills them.....

OpenYourEyes

Capercaille wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me in this Country. One Department releases the bird the other Department kills them.....

The Department of Agriculture aren't being particularly helpful either when it comes to Raptor poisonings by not investigating cases and not being too eager to share veterinary resources (for post mortem etc.) with the NPWS (Dept. of Arts,Heritage,Gaeltacht) because they feel they shouldn't be doing anything against "their own" i.e. farmers.

In my opinion they're doing the majority of proper, honest, hard-working farmers a disservice by not helping to weed out the ignorant, bad-minded minority of farmers who give the whole community a bad name. Not to mention that farmers responsible for shooting/poisoning raptors are more than likely in receipt of EU single farm payment and possibly other funds paid for with public money - money they don't deserve if they're not complying with the rules/law.

magicbastarder

Capercaille wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me in this Country. One Department releases the bird the other Department kills them.....

the GET are not a government organisation though.

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

The Department of Agriculture aren't being particularly helpful either when it comes to Raptor poisonings by not investigating cases and not being too eager to share veterinary resources (for post mortem etc.) with the NPWS (Dept. of Arts,Heritage,Gaeltacht) because they feel they shouldn't be doing anything against "their own" i.e. farmers.

In my opinion they're doing the majority of proper, honest, hard-working farmers a disservice by not helping to weed out the ignorant, bad-minded minority of farmers who give the whole community a bad name. Not to mention that farmers responsible for shooting/poisoning raptors are more than likely in receipt of EU single farm payment and possibly other funds paid for with public money - money they don't deserve if they're not complying with the rules/law.

The Dept of Agriculture have always been behind the curve on these and many other issues affecting the rural environment. However pressure from Europe and various conservation bodies has helped estaiblish a protocall where any suspicious raptor carcasses can now be tested in a state lab(I think this is mainly done in the one in Sligo).

There are also tougher cross compliance measures in terms of various EU Enviro directives coming down the track concerning farmers SFP. Up to now enforcement of these measures has been "patchy" but again pressure from concerned parties is helping to concentrate minds in various government departments. As you say the majority of farmers are law-abiding and decent so weeding out the rotten apples can only be good for an industry that is widely marketed on the back of Irelands supposed "green" image

OpenYourEyes

Birdnuts wrote: »

The Dept of Agriculture have always been behind the curve on these and many other issues affecting the rural environment. However pressure from Europe and various conservation bodies has helped estaiblish a protocall where any suspicious raptor carcasses can now be tested in a state lab(I think this is mainly done in the one in Sligo).

This is what I was alluding to alright - I think any increase in their co-operation with the new protocols is down to the enthusiasm of a few individuals working for the Dept of Ag with regards wildlife and wildlife crime, rather than an overall enthusiasm from the Dept of Ag unfortunately, but its certainly a start!

downonthefarm

I have been seeing kestrel /or buzzards in my area since 2006.would love to get a few pictures up to get positive ID.they are beautiful creature's and don't understand why people would want to kill them

Half-cocked

Just getting back to the OP first post, the BOPO may have been forced to move elsewhere due to the long dry spell. Kites and Buzzards eat a lot of invertebrates that would have become scarce in the parched conditions (earth worms for example). The Kites in north Dublin are very well monitored so I doubt if anyone shooting them would have gone unnoticed and action taken.

Capercaille

magicbastarder wrote: »

the GET are not a government organisation though.

True, but The Golden Eagle Trust Limited also established a partnership with the National Parks and Wildlife Service, to implement the White-tailed Eagle Reintroduction project and the Red Kite Reintroduction project.

Mark Spilane

Was at the golf course again today so asked my friend if he knew anymore.
The guy who saw it saw a buzzard get shot. By shot I mean gunshot, feathers everywhere and then falling bird to the ground behind the trees.

He called the authorities there and then from the the golf course and got "Oh thats awful, but we dont have the manpower to do anything about it."

Birdnuts

Mark Spilane wrote: »

Was at the golf course again today so asked my friend if he knew anymore.
The guy who saw it saw a buzzard get shot. By shot I mean gunshot, feathers everywhere and then falling bird to the ground behind the trees.

He called the authorities there and then from the the golf course and got "Oh thats awful, but we dont have the manpower to do anything about it."

I assume you mean the Gardai - In that case your friend should contact the NPWS with details of the incident. They have the power to question the landowner and any other relevant people in order to ascertain who was shooting on the land, gun licences in the locality etc.. I would also contact the GET and John Lusby of the BWI who will take up the matter with the local Gardai and discuss their response,since it was clearly clearly unacceptable and in breach of their duties under the law.

Did your friend locate the carcass or get a pic of the crime scene??

Mark Spilane

Birdnuts wrote: »

I assume you mean the Gardai - In that case your friend should contact the NPWS with details of the incident. They have the power to question the landowner and any other relevant people in order to ascertain who was shooting on the land, gun licences in the locality etc.. I would also contact the GET and John Lusby of the BWI who will take up the matter with the local Gardai and discuss their response,since it was clearly clearly unacceptable and in breach of their duties under the law.

Did your friend locate the carcass or get a pic of the crime scene??

Hes not bothered anymore after the treatment he got tbh.

On another note. Saw two red kites today, so they are safe. I just hadnt seen them in a week, so was worried about them.

If anyone wants to see plenty of birds of prey I recommend sitting outside for your lunch at Kettles inn. You are almost guaranteed to see them every day there usually from about midday. A kestrel, 4 buzzards and 2 red kites today. All in the sky at the same time. Very nice sight. A fairly common one there two.

There is a great spot for birdwathers too not far away from there. If you sit at the end of the cul de sac there around midday and look south over the field below you, you can see them swooping over the field in front of you. You can actually see them from above and from about 20 - 30 feet away. Glorious.

Here is a map.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sxfcqqgg7wxd&lvl=19.14&dir=357.89&sty=b&sp=Point.sxfcrcgg7wxb_Raptors%20Lookout____&q=rolestown,%20dublin&form=LMLTCC#Y3A9c3hmY3FxZ2c3d3hkJmx2bD0xOS4wNyZkaXI9MzU5LjE5JnN0eT1iJnE9cm9sZXN0b3duJTI1MkMlMjUyMGR1Ymxpbg==

Click on the "Raptors Lookout" link.

I often sit there and look at them when I have time after a game of golf.

downonthefarm

seen it again today. it had the classic streamlined shape and it's underside was a blueish grey colour

mr lee

buzzards swooping down to steal pigeons that were shot,thats a good one alright,did they have ear protection so the gunshots wouldn't scare them?

Half-cocked

mr lee wrote: »

buzzards swooping down to steal pigeons that were shot,thats a good one alright,did they have ear protection so the gunshots wouldn't scare them?

They appear when there is a lull in the shooting if you don't pick up the pigeons straight away. Not sure if this is widespread behaviour - I hope not, I don't like the idea of them hanging around shooters, too may cowboys out there. The buzzards I encounter are very used to human activity, they roost right next to the farm house. I've had foxes running out to grab shot pigeons too and once had a young sparrowhawk slam into one of the plastic decoys thinking it was a free dinner!

When there are crow bangers firing all the time, I'd imagine the buzzards get used to loud bangs so the shooting wouldn't scare them off.

JustAThought

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

The Department of Agriculture aren't being particularly helpful either when it comes to Raptor poisonings by not investigating cases and not being too eager to share veterinary resources (for post mortem etc.) with the NPWS (Dept. of Arts,Heritage,Gaeltacht) because they feel they shouldn't be doing anything against "their own" i.e. farmers.

In my opinion they're doing the majority of proper, honest, hard-working farmers a disservice by not helping to weed out the ignorant, bad-minded minority of farmers who give the whole community a bad name. Not to mention that farmers responsible for shooting/poisoning raptors are more than likely in receipt of EU single farm payment and possibly other funds paid for with public money - money they don't deserve if they're not complying with the rules/law.

I agree.

However for the " environmental" officer paid for by that oublie to be actively responsible for putting down extensive rat poison in the allotments at turveyHANS right next to the bird sanctuary is simply disgusting.

As is their shrug-it-off no interest response. Simply disgusting.

For that breach alone should not be in that job.
Appalling Attitude & disregard for the country he is supposed to be protecting. Simply disgusting.

dodderangler

mr lee wrote: »

buzzards swooping down to steal pigeons that were shot,thats a good one alright,did they have ear protection so the gunshots wouldn't scare them?

Here you go smart arse
Happened more than you'd think
Fast forward it to 4:20
http://youtu.be/vlC3uMdesFU

Half-cocked

dodderangler wrote: »

Here you go smart arse
Happened more than you'd think
Fast forward it to 4:20
http://youtu.be/vlC3uMdesFU

Birds seem to get used to gunfire, we've had house sparrows nesting in the roofs of covered firing points on clay shooting grounds, blackbirds nesting in the skeet houses. They'll go about their business oblivious to all the close proximity gunfire. Hunted species do seem to have an instinct to steer clear though.

dodderangler

I do plenty of hunting and see buzzards quite alot and anyone else I know does nothing but admire them.
Any lad that raises a gun to a buzzard is nothing more than a trigger happy a55hole and shouldn't e allowed anywhere near a firearm.

cd07

If I saw some arsehole shooting a Buzzard I would completely flip. OP you`re`friend needs to get in touch with the fingal wildlife officer ill PM you his details shortly. I know hes in regular contact with the Golden Eagle Trust and I know he`l`take it seriously.

tittybiscuits

JustAThought wrote: »

I agree.

However for the " environmental" officer paid for by that oublie to be actively responsible for putting down extensive rat poison in the allotments at turveyHANS right next to the bird sanctuary is simply disgusting.

As is their shrug-it-off no interest response. Simply disgusting.

For that breach alone should not be in that job.
Appalling Attitude & disregard for the country he is supposed to be protecting. Simply disgusting.

Looking at it cynically the council are making money off the allotments and not the nature reserve so if the allotment owners kick upa fuss about the rodent problem they'll put poison down. But as far as I know the kites poisoned in north county Dublin were all found around Lusk which is a good bit away, wouldn't stop other BOP's getting poisoned though, like kestrels and sparrowhawks. I'm no expert of course, correct me if I'm wrong...

I wouldn't even refer to Turvey as a bird sanctuary as the amount of people ignoring the ONE sign about keeping dogs on leads is ridiculous. Not to mention the guy I've seen there shooting on SAC/SPA...

Half-cocked

tittybiscuits wrote: »

. Not to mention the guy I've seen there shooting on SAC/SPA...

Hunters with historic shooting rights are allowed to continue shooting in some SAC/SPA's - this is quite common. They are supposed to operate within an agreed framework (bag limits, maximum number shooting days per season, restrictions on species shot etc). However, there is a small group of cowboys who shoot around Rogerstown and Malahide estuaries who ignore all the rules and are quite brazen about it. The local NPWS ranger has been after them for a while but won't tackle them unless he has Garda back-up, which is usually unavailable. These yahoos are shunned by the larger shooting community.

tittybiscuits

Thanks Half-cocked, I didn't realise there was an agreement for some people to hunt those places. I've been in contact with the ranger about it (indirectly) who said he needed proof like photos/car reg, which I couldn't get. This particular guy is often down there and has been challenged before (once by myself) but he really doesn't care.

I don't mean to tar the hunting community all with the same brush - I have a mate who's a shooter and he'd love to hunt a local pNHA where he says there's loads of snipe but he wouldn't dare. I'd imagine he could lose his licence if he was caught doing it...

Capercaille

http://www.irelandswildlife.com/2013/07/peregrine-falcons-shot-in-co-tipperary/
http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/News/PeregrinesshotatnestsinSouthTipperary/tabid/1344/Default.aspx

Three more peregrines shot in this article:(