Jobsbridge

fairypants

I know there are some older threads similar to this, so apologies if I should have just posted a reply.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=ukqxgQ00ljWtagHSaoCkS8LF8cr+DV96CGHyDG3HXTbaAiB7ojTKZ9fJIoCiD3vtOWYUq6k+Y23OeR4glFmDn2DzCYsd1+/m6YYU3bWRuFL6L7Qxl/xVTGu2om0dkL6XjDopmy77VcRkHaxGVqZ5Aoe1J/75TZB8flm9rzXs9fXdHCz3tU8P6PvFKuQIkbWL2Usbja46wRZYjnv8n5WiwqzGFxc82DBBJ6m2/QbT4cD0H3AAXEEcMv8TxJjwnGX1p7JxgK8sC5DROfoGaK9SNVART1fVcelp/LY1a1GOPN17DH45ECvK5be7l1+145v3h/H/cQCjHyb/WVaq4gShSqvA1GIqXsCI7wPpj9oJU+UxyxcwXvHv1llwJ2GH2UlhfbDn8DjgsY/X1zUGy9f/sYTYvxBmzs1lMxmWfWvMXNzAjg3DpaGqYr4xZdkUksBfp/PDOUZOeYmFXDBRgcjvnZZHo7cnMTQm

Saw this advertised on jobsbridge. There is also an article in the Irish times about it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/teaching-position-advertised-on-jobbridge-1.1476383

I cannot believe that this is allowed
It actually scares me that they are allowed to fill primary teaching positions in this manner. What happened to panels and jobs being advertised? I don't know whether to be relieved or outraged that the skills requirement is a qualified primary teacher.
If this is the way teaching is going, where teachers are paid an extra €50? rather than the appropriate salary according to the salary scale then it is a complete lack of respect for teachers and students alike.

I think this completely takes advantage of teachers, in particular those who are only starting out and need the experience. In fact anyone who is qualified might be tempted by it if only to get their foot in the door. I personally think it is horrible and the unions should act strongly and quickly to block this. Not entirely sure how they could but this does not bode well for the profession of teaching.

Miss Lockhart

Lack of respect for teachers and teaching is nothing new unfortunately.

There is already an INTO directive in place on not participating in or facilitating jobsbridge.

RealJohn

That's utterly, utterly disgraceful. The worst thing is that some poor newly qualified teacher will probably take it, just to get the foot in the door as you said.
And as if to add insult to injury, it's still only 9 months so they won't even get their extra €50 (an insult in itself under the circumstances) for the summer.

dory

I'm sure they will have a lot of applicants unfortunately. I know a lot of people who just want to do their dip and if they're able to do it while doing this internship they will.

Crazyteacher

Have the Asti or TUI ever issued a directive on this?

Fear_an_tarbh

Disgraceful punctuation in the first ad by whoever placed the ad (presumably the Principal).

In order to qualify for this internship, you would first need to have completed several unpaid internships as part of your training (teaching practice).

The ad specifies that you will receive on-the-job training in several areas. (which you don't need as you are already fully trained and qualified).
Who will provide this? Will the Principal stay on after hours to train you in these areas. I doubt it. Or more likely, will this 'training' consist of brief exchanges over tea in the staffroom? The latter, I'd say.

Are the parents happy that their kids are being taught by someone who can only legally work 30 hours per week and will thus be unable to provide full planning/preparation for the job. The kids in the classroom next door are being taught by a fully paid professional who likely works 50-60 hours.

This is the second time I've seen all of this in a Jobsbridge ad. Name and shame the school/Principal. They're trying to scam everyone - the parents, teachers and most importantly, the kids.
Its a joke.

Edit: found the school via the email address, its this one: http://www.schooldays.ie/school/ard-na-gcraith-n-s-rollnumber-18764H

StillWaters

I'd imagine the jobbridge person will be resource/floating.
As a parent I would be perfectly happy with this.

Pang

Complete and utter exploitation. This is disgraceful. Our status is so bad at the moment and we are trying to fight off Haddington and then this. This will do nothing except further erode our reputation.

byhookorbycrook

Looking at the job description ,it seems the sucker intern will be doing a lot of paperwork on school self evaluation and researching stuff for the teacher to use on the IWB.

I am thinking of emailing the contact given to register my disgust.

rainbowtrout

StillWaters wrote: »

I'd imagine the jobbridge person will be resource/floating.
As a parent I would be perfectly happy with this.

Really? Do you value your child's education so little that you think it's ok to exploit a young graduate on the dole and give them the dole + €50 instead of the proper wage that the other teachers in the school will be getting for doing the same job???

Put it in perspective. There are lots of minimum wage jobs out there that pay 8.65 an hour = €346 per week for work that does not require much in the way of skills and qualifications. Primary teaching requires a teacher training degree. Are you putting the value of that job at 188+50 = €238 per week at less that shelf stacking, sweeping floors etc????




What I'm most disgusted by in this advert is that a Principal and BOM sat around and decided to go ahead with this advert. This hasn't come from the Dept of Ed. This has come from within the school. What message is this principal sending out to the other staff and to the students in that school that they are will to exploit a new graduate. If I had children and found that the school I was sending them was willing to exploit graduates in such a way I'd be pulling them out and sending them elsewhere where ethics and morals weren't so loose.

teacherhead

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Really? Do you value your child's education so little that you think it's ok to exploit a young graduate on the dole and give them the dole + €50 instead of the proper wage that the other teachers in the school will be getting for doing the same job???

Put it in perspective. There are lots ofoil minimum wage jobs out there that pay 8.65 an hour = €346 per week for work that does not require much in the way of skills and qualifications. Primary teaching requires a teacher training degree. Are you putting the value of that job at 188+50 = €238 per week at less that shelf stacking, sweeping floors etc????




What I'm most disgusted by in this advert is that a Principal and BOM sat around and decided to go ahead with this advert. This hasn't come from the Dept of Ed. This has come from within the school. What message is this principal sending out to the other staff and to the students in that school that they are will to exploit a new graduate. If I had children and found that the school I was sending them was willing to exploit graduates in such a way I'd be pulling them out and sending them elsewhere where ethics and morals weren't so loose.

Agree 100%. It's an appalling situation. If the into have any balls at all they should ballot the teachers in tat school for industrial action.

byhookorbycrook

It's ok to exploit someone in resource teaching??Children with SEN should not be used as a justification for yellow pack jobs. That's selling everyone short.

doc_17

Remember how active the INMO were when the government tried to introduce yellow pack jobs! We just issued a directive so far. The INMO had a great campaign!

doc_17

South Tipp VEC advertising for job bridge now. Gym and practical subjects classroom assistant. I suppose there're looking for qualified teachers for those

RealJohn

doc_17 wrote: »

South Tipp VEC advertising for job bridge now. Gym and practical subjects classroom assistant. I suppose there're looking for qualified teachers for those

Depending on what they mean by classroom assistant, there might be nothing that wrong with this. If the candidate is to be routinely involved in the running of classes and interacting directly with students, it's not ok. If it's stuff like setting up the cones (or whatever) for a PE teacher, organising and tidying science labs or woodwork rooms etc. then that's probably ok and in keeping with the spirit of what job bridge is supposed to be.
Describing them as classroom assistants suggests the former though, which would be a worry.

Miss Lockhart

I really don't think it's ok at all. There is no such thing as a classroom assistant in Ireland. No job can possibly come of this placement. What is this candidate actually training in?

Pang

It's basically free labour. They probably won't be assisting. They'll be 'team teaching'.

I would imagine that the gym intern would end up taking half the class or say all the girls in the class and the real teacher the boys, if it was co-ed.

Or in a practical class seeing as they are usually mixed ability, that they would be split higher and ordinary level.

doc_17

If only qualified teachers are interviewee an accepted for those positions then it will be a problem

amen

It is totally wrong and unacceptable that teaching jobs are advertised on Job Bridge.

That said

The kids in the classroom next door are being taught by a fully paid professional who likely works 50-60 hours.

this isn't true either or are you saying that teachers are working nearly twice their contracted hours ?

teacherhead

Planning and preparation plus marking etc. included. I would imagine this is what the poster was referring to....

Fact remains - yellowpack jobs. If there is a need for these positions they should be filled by the DES and funded properly.

In a way you can almost sympathise with a Principal - Limited resource allocation, trying to keep the ship afloat, do the best for the kids etc. etc. the unions must be strong. I would support an all out strike over this.

If you work for nothing you will always be busy.

rainbowtrout

Pang wrote: »

It's basically free labour. They probably won't be assisting. They'll be 'team teaching'.

I would imagine that the gym intern would end up taking half the class or say all the girls in the class and the real teacher the boys, if it was co-ed.

Or in a practical class seeing as they are usually mixed ability, that they would be split higher and ordinary level.

I imagine also that as PE teachers tend to be involved in extra curricular sports, football teams etc that the poor unfortunate who gets hired could get roped into extra curricular stuff after school and possibly covering PE classes while a teacher was away at a match. How do you say no in that position.

Again as has already been said we don't have these type of classroom assistants in Ireland so this can't lead to a job. More exploitation.

Pang

There appears to be a big number of classroom assistant positions up on Jobsbridge, predominantly in the primary sector. I even noticed one special needs assistant position. This is not on at all.

Rightwing

This is happening in the private sector all the time and no one seems to say it's 'exploitation'

The power of unions I suppose.

teacherhead

Rightwing wrote: »

This is happening in the private sector all the time and no one seems to say it's 'exploitation'

The power of unions I suppose.

Haven't you read the thread in after hours? HERE

Rightwing

teacherhead wrote: »

Haven't you read the thread in after hours? HERE

No, thanks, may take a look later, I'm in favour of it, so long as it is used fairly.

Fear_an_tarbh

amen wrote: »

It is totally wrong and unacceptable that teaching jobs are advertised on Job Bridge.

That said



this isn't true either or are you saying that teachers are working nearly twice their contracted hours ?

Yes, its quite true, come spend a week with me and see! Your contracted hours are only the contact hours. You work at least double that, sometimes more.

Rightwing

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

Yes, its quite true, come spend a week with me and see! Your contracted hours are only the contact hours. You work at least double that, sometimes more.

How can that be the case?

RealJohn

Rightwing wrote: »

How can that be the case?

Marking students' work involves more than a tick at the end of the page and class preparation involves more than saying "we're on chapter three so the plan is to read chapter three and answer the questions at the end." In a nutshell.

Rightwing

RealJohn wrote: »

Marking students' work involves more than a tick at the end of the page and class preparation involves more than saying "we're on chapter three so the plan is to read chapter three and answer the questions at the end." In a nutshell.

Teachers tend to get carried away on that stuff.

Keep all your notes and use them every year, that'll cut down on work.

seavill

Is there no mods that control trolling anymore?

spurious

Not 24 hours - please use the report button.

I was actually in work today.
On my 3 month holidays??? Nay!!

amen

Why were you in work on your holidays ?

Rightwing

seavill wrote: »

Is there no mods that control trolling anymore?

If my post is considered trolling, I am unfollowing this thread, and let the Jack O Connors chat amongst one another.

spurious

amen wrote: »

Why were you in work on your holidays ?

I had work to do in preparation for next term. I don't get anything like three month's holidays - three of my colleagues were in there today too. It's what teaching is really like.

Once the LC results are out, I'll be back in and out until the official start of term.
I have to laugh when teacher bashers go on about three month's holidays and half days. It's like thinking Jean Byrne works three minutes a day doing the weather.

spurious

Rightwing wrote: »

If my post is considered trolling, I am unfollowing this thread, and let the Jack O Connors chat amongst one another.

It wasn't, but that one is coming closer to trolling.

RealJohn

Rightwing wrote: »

Teachers tend to get carried away on that stuff.

Keep all your notes and use them every year, that'll cut down on work.

I do keep my notes and use versions of them every year. It doesn't save as much time as you seem to think. Like I said, there's more to class preparation than deciding what chapter to read. The same goes for what notes to use.

But you're definitely either trolling or have no idea what you're talking about so I'm not sure if there's much point in engaging with you.

implausible

Rightwing wrote: »

Teachers tend to get carried away on that stuff.

Keep all your notes and use them every year, that'll cut down on work.

Yep, because you teach the same amount of students who all have the same ability the exact same stuff and they hand in the same work every single year. Oh, and the syllabus and the assessments never change either. To be honest, I don't teach at all, just leave "the notes" out for them, job done:rolleyes:

seavill

spurious wrote: »

It wasn't, but that one is coming closer to trolling.

Really???? it wasn't???
"Keep all your notes and use them every year, that'll cut down on work." not off topic or condescending at all no??

And before you tell me to keep it to PM you two are openly discussing it here on the thread

evolving_doors

Rightwing wrote: »

Teachers tend to get carried away on that stuff.

Keep all your notes and use them every year, that'll cut down on work.

AH is thataway fella, theres a thread on teachers 3 months holidays etc...yould love it...

Now...wheres my sombrero...

Sin City

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Really? Do you value your child's education so little that you think it's ok to exploit a young graduate on the dole and give them the dole + €50 instead of the proper wage that the other teachers in the school will be getting for doing the same job???

What does exploiting a teacher have to do with my childs education? Will they not give 100 % when teaching, or will they only teach by pay rate?

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Put it in perspective. There are lots of minimum wage jobs out there that pay 8.65 an hour = €346 per week for work that does not require much in the way of skills and qualifications. Primary teaching requires a teacher training degree. Are you putting the value of that job at 188+50 = €238 per week at less that shelf stacking, sweeping floors etc????

Its a recession, the money just isnt there. Dont just think its teachers that are suffering. There are a few graduates who work in Tescos on a minimum wage job as its all they can get. At least the teacher who took up the internship would be working in their field. They could always quit if they found an actual position

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What I'm most disgusted by in this advert is that a Principal and BOM sat around and decided to go ahead with this advert. This hasn't come from the Dept of Ed. This has come from within the school. What message is this principal sending out to the other staff and to the students in that school that they are will to exploit a new graduate. If I had children and found that the school I was sending them was willing to exploit graduates in such a way I'd be pulling them out and sending them elsewhere where ethics and morals weren't so loose.

Would you take business away from other employers who do the same?
Most companies in the state are using this, rightly or wrongly. Will you boycott these companies too? Im sorry I dont want to come accross as anti teacher or anything but its a recession and if a school has to cut back on expenditure they will

If a graduate doesnt want to take it they can always not apply for it or find work in another area

rainbowtrout

Sin City wrote: »

What does exploiting a teacher have to do with my childs education? Will they not give 100 % when teaching, or will they only teach by pay rate?

Its a recession, the money just isnt there. Dont just think its teachers that are suffering. There are a few graduates who work in Tescos on a minimum wage job as its all they can get. At least the teacher who took up the internship would be working in their field. They could always quit if they found an actual position

Would you take business away from other employers who do the same?
Most companies in the state are using this, rightly or wrongly. Will you boycott these companies too? Im sorry I dont want to come accross as anti teacher or anything but its a recession and if a school has to cut back on expenditure they will

If a graduate doesnt want to take it they can always not apply for it or find work in another area

Ok, here are a few facts about teaching. The Jobsbridge initiative was supposedly designed to allow people to gain experience in whatever area they apply for, the idea being that there might be a job at the end of it. The position of classroom assistant does not exist in Ireland, so the person taking this job, cannot be hired as a classroom assistant in the manner that is being described in the advert.


If the teacher is being hired as an actual teacher, then the school is creating an extra class, maybe splitting a large class or splitting a combined class where there are two year groups in one class as is common in smaller schools. This intern job is not a department of education sanctioned position. Schools get an allocation of teachers based on the number of students they have enrolled. So keeping it simple if a school gets a teacher for every 20 pupils and have 100 pupils, they get five teachers, so a primary school might decide to put junior and senior infants together, first and second class together, third and fourth together and have separate fifth and sixth class with the allocation they've been given.

So this school might decide to hire this 'intern' to create an extra teaching position and allow separate third and fourth classes. But because it's not department sanctioned, the class technically doesn't exist as the teacher position doesn't exist. So any day that the intern doesn't show up for work, through sickness for example the school cannot hire a sub for that teacher because they are not department sanctioned. So what do you that day? Dump them back in with fourth class? Very disruptive for both sets of pupils and the teacher from the other class, particularly if they had a completely different program of work. Also if the intern ups and leaves mid year because they've had the offer of a maternity leave or their own contract in another school again that class is left high and dry without a teacher.

Is that what you want for your child???? Your comparison of this situation to graduates working in Tesco is not a fair comparison. Tesco employees get paid minimum wage because they are doing unskilled work. If I left my teaching job in the morning and got a job in Tesco I wouldn't expect to be paid my current wage because the experience and skills necessary to stack shelves don't warrant it. However if I leave my teaching job and apply for another teaching job I expect to be paid on the same scale as any other qualified teacher doing the job.


Something else you may not understand. Schools don't pay teachers. It doesn't come out of the school budget. The Dept of Education/VEC pay teachers. Schools budgets are used for heating, electricity, equipment for sports, science labs, books, etc etc. So it's not a cost saving measure on the part of the school. The school is saving no money by hiring the intern to teach. It's exploitation.

You want the best and brightest teaching your children, if teaching becomes a yellow pack job where you can only earn €250 a week in it, it will not attract those graduates and standards will drop. Again, is that what you want for your child?


The average length of time a teacher stays in teaching in UK is 5 years before they bail out due to pay and conditions. Irish teachers have no problem getting work over there at the moment, there are so many jobs. In some subject areas there is a 'golden hello' which is a €5,000 bonus for taking a teaching job, such is the difficulty in finding people to fill the positions. Graduates are not being attracted to teaching in the UK anymore. It would be a very bad thing if our education system went the same way.