How much would I be looking at to become a private pilot?

BetterThanThou

I've been interested in aircraft and flying ever since I was young, I wanted to become an airline pilot as a young kid, but now, have realised that would not be the ideal career for me. However, the interest in aircraft still remains, the last few years, since I realised becoming an airline pilot was not for me, I've wanted to get a private pilot license, for something like a Cessna 172 or another small plane like that. How would I go about doing that in Ireland? Is it possible here? And what kind of fees would I be looking at roughly? Obviously it will vary depending on how well I take to the training, but roughly speaking. And I know if I do get qualified I'll be looking at at least 50 grand for an aircraft that's in anyway air worthy, even used, and that the mechanical bills will likely be large, hanger space will likely be expensive, as will fuel and landing charges.

Fully Established

BetterThanThou wrote: »

I've been interested in aircraft and flying ever since I was young, I wanted to become an airline pilot as a young kid, but now, have realised that would not be the ideal career for me. However, the interest in aircraft still remains, the last few years, since I realised becoming an airline pilot was not for me, I've wanted to get a private pilot license, for something like a Cessna 172 or another small plane like that. How would I go about doing that in Ireland? Is it possible here? And what kind of fees would I be looking at roughly? Obviously it will vary depending on how well I take to the training, but roughly speaking. And I know if I do get qualified I'll be looking at at least 50 grand for an aircraft that's in anyway air worthy, even used, and that the mechanical bills will likely be large, hanger space will likely be expensive, as will fuel and landing charges.

You would be best advised to budget around 12K minimum when you factor in the medical , exams , books , test fees and other necessary equipment .

Stovepipe

reading your post, you are jumping way ahead of yourself, by writing off a Commercial career before it's even started and decrying the cost of owning an aircraft before you even have a license??!! How did you realise that a Commercial career was not an option?..............right now, focus on getting a few quid together to have a few trial lessons to see if you can actually cope with flying a small aircraft. Not everyone gets it. Try anyway. Go and find out from all of the schools and clubs what their rates are and all the additional costs, as FE has pointed out. a lot of the flight equipment can be had cheaply from ebay or from PPls who have moved on. Every school or club will know her to get second hand stuff, as every PPL usually has stuff from his student days languishing in a locker or old flight bag. deal with the PPl first and then, and only then, think about an aircraft...

regards
Stovepipe

Jhcx

Was over in Weston the otherday looking this just just to get the ball rolling. The first 45hours will cost 12,700 because you use two aircraft. That pretty much gets you onto solo status. Don't forget your class 2 medical which is about 350 or I was told.

So there's your first option. Don't knock it till you try it and take a spin out there and start or act icing. Could be a career yet.

DownBeaten

Have you looked through the classified ads in some of the various General Aviation magazines like Pilot (www.pilotweb.aero) or Flyer (http://www.flyer.co.uk)? They all feature lists of flight schools in places like Florida where the weather and the facilities are very GA-friendly. The problem with our dear Emerald Isle is that logging hours consistently can be quite difficult!

logie101

Jhcx wrote: »

Was over in Weston the otherday looking this just just to get the ball rolling. The first 45hours will cost 12,700 because you use two aircraft. That pretty much gets you onto solo status. Don't forget your class 2 medical which is about 350 or I was told.

So there's your first option. Don't knock it till you try it and take a spin out there and start or act icing. Could be a career yet.

A class 2 medical should not cost any more than €150.

Jhcx

logie101 wrote: »

A class 2 medical should not cost any more than €150.

Well i was told the class 1 was 700 and 2 was half that. Im only doing what was said on the tin. :pac:

Stovepipe

jhcx, please tell me how you need two aircraft to do a PPL? what you might have been told is that you need an aircraft with a constant-speed propeller for differences training, which is not a strict requirement for a PPL. The IAA will supply you with a list of approved aeromedical doctors, not just the ones convenient for Weston. Anyone thinking about doing a PPL must consider the UK or the USA also. Some of the costs in Ireland are just ludicrous. If you are nearer any of the smaller airfields, like Trim or Birr, check out the local clubs there.

regards
Stovepipe

b757

Where are you located?

Jhcx

Stovepipe wrote: »

jhcx, please tell me how you need two aircraft to do a PPL? what you might have been told is that you need an aircraft with a constant-speed propeller for differences training, which is not a strict requirement for a PPL. The IAA will supply you with a list of approved aeromedical doctors, not just the ones convenient for Weston. Anyone thinking about doing a PPL must consider the UK or the USA also. Some of the costs in Ireland are just ludicrous. If you are nearer any of the smaller airfields, like Trim or Birr, check out the local clubs there.

regards
Stovepipe

How can i tell you that when i know FA myself. when nobody tells you anything and You only read whats on paper one starts guessing. You have your Cessna 152/150 at 217ph. wasnt really meant to say two aircraft but i wasnt exactly holding this sheet im holding now, earlier.i missed a lot of info im guessing you have a chosing of using either aircraft to which I should have said you can use two aircraft. I'm presuming your 4 exams and your flight test with an IAA examiner are included in the price of €12,686 because 45 lessons(1hr each) x €217 is still shy by €2,921

logie101

Jhcx wrote: »

Well i was told the class 1 was 700 and 2 was half that. Im only doing what was said on the tin. :pac:

My class 2 cost me €125 from a GP in Leixlip.

Xpro

Irelands PPL and hire rates are off the Richter scale at this stage. When i did my ppl, it was still expensive but not too bad. Now the prices are just pure crazy. Over 200€ to fly a 150/152 is just not right.

In the states you will pay about 125$ for the 152. Thats 85$ C152 Hourly rate + 40$ instructors fee. Work it your self.

Before there were things you had to consider, pros & cons, US vs Ire. Whether you can afford to go States for a few weeks, accommodation,transport, etc just to save a few quid or just stay here, pay little bit more and be done with it.

Now its not even worth thinking about training here, US will cost you significantly less!

Thats my 2p.

shooter69

Xpro wrote: »

Irelands PPL and hire rates are off the Richter scale at this stage. When i did my ppl, it was still expensive but not too bad. Now the prices are just pure crazy. Over 200€ to fly a 150/152 is just not right.

In the states you will pay about 125$ for the 152. Thats 85$ C152 Hourly rate + 40$ instructors fee. Work it your self.

Before there were things you had to consider, pros & cons, US vs Ire. Whether you can afford to go States for a few weeks, accommodation,transport, etc just to save a few quid or just stay here, pay little bit more and be done with it.

Now its not even worth thinking about training here, US will cost you significantly less!

Thats my 2p.

Hi guys , I'm in same boat as OP. would dearly love to get my PPL and could afford to take the time off to go the states and do it full time - yep I know I'm lucky !!
Anybody on here got some recommendations for flight schools in US that they have used?

Thanks

jmayo

BetterThanThou wrote: »

I've been interested in aircraft and flying ever since I was young, I wanted to become an airline pilot as a young kid, but now, have realised that would not be the ideal career for me. However, the interest in aircraft still remains, the last few years, since I realised becoming an airline pilot was not for me, I've wanted to get a private pilot license, for something like a Cessna 172 or another small plane like that. How would I go about doing that in Ireland? Is it possible here? And what kind of fees would I be looking at roughly? Obviously it will vary depending on how well I take to the training, but roughly speaking. And I know if I do get qualified I'll be looking at at least 50 grand for an aircraft that's in anyway air worthy, even used, and that the mechanical bills will likely be large, hanger space will likely be expensive, as will fuel and landing charges.

Fecking hell I don't know how I ever survived flying in all those under 50 grand aircraft.
Granted I did find out one had was ground by FAA for missing couple of engine bolts.

Jhcx wrote: »

Was over in Weston the otherday looking this just just to get the ball rolling. The first 45hours will cost 12,700 because you use two aircraft. That pretty much gets you onto solo status.

Ehh you should be solo in 10-15 hours if doing intensive day in day out training in somewhere like the states.
Over here it will probably take longer since you are relearning refamiliarising every flight since they could be spaced further apart timewise.
BTW number of aircraft should not matter unless you are bumped up to larger aircraft type with higher hourly rental rate e.g go from cheaper C152 to a C172.

BTW I don't think anyone has issued the standard financial warning to the wanabees.
Do not, I repeat do not, give over a huge wad of cash to any flight organisation.
It doesn't matter where they are and what they claim.
They can and often do go bust.
Try and pay as you go only coughing up at most a few grand.
They may claim that you have to fully pay up front or that you get huge saving if you pay upfront.
The dangers are that you can't complete your training or have to postpone some of it and then have issue of trying to get your money back.
Or the FTO goes bust overnight.

I would argue this advice applies if you are doing commerical training, hour building, additional ratings or a bog standard ppl.
It all involves a nice chunk of money which is not nice to lose.

Razor44

So its around the 13k mark here for a PPL, if you get a PPL in the states do you have probs with licences in Europe?

yaeger

Hey BetterThanThou

If you have decided not to pursue the career and just follow the PPL route I would be a huge advocate for training in a club!
There is a small but adequate choice to choose from all vary with aircraft types and costs but generally run cheaper, also nicely dotted in and around Dublin area.
There is pros and cons to clubs, but considering your just after PPL and cost conscious I suggest you strongly consider them all.

All the best in whatever you choose.

Razor44

So its around the 13k mark here for a PPL, if you get a PPL in the states do you have probs with licences in Europe?

jasonb

I did the maths a while ago and I spent just less than €15k getting my PPL in Weston. That includes everything, books, ground school, medical, exam fees, license fees, and of course flying costs! I got my PPL in 57 hours or thereabouts, I would have got it sooner (and cheaper) but I had to take nearly a full year out because of money issues, so that meant more flying to get back up to speed. Am delighted I did it, but it's a lot of money any way you look at it!

J.

happy_head

Razor44 wrote: »

So its around the 13k mark here for a PPL, if you get a PPL in the states do you have probs with licences in Europe?

Hey Razor, if you don't leave too much time in between each lesson you can do it a lot cheaper than 13k. The problem is people do a lesson and then leave 4 weeks until their next one, when you go to do the next lesson you spend half the time going over stuff you forgot from the previous lesson, this will quickly add up and you will go way above minimum hours.

Also if you are thinking Weston, I'd recommend taking a look at skyways aviation. They have very good rates and if you were to complete the training in minimum time you would only be €8325 out of pocket. The most popular school in weston is NFC, but they have recently bumped up their prices to a ridiculous amount, they will soon realise when they start losing customers and hour builders to cheaper places right across their corridor that the extra €40 p/h was not worth it.

As for going to the states, you can find EASA training schools there. That means that you follow the European syllabus with European licenced instructors and do you PPL test with an EASA examiner, and you will be issued an EASA PPL if you pass. If you go to an FAA school over there you can still convert your licence to use in Europe but there is a little bit of work involved.

It's an absolute fantastic hobby and achievment to have. Best of luck with it.

logie101

jasonb wrote: »

I did the maths a while ago and I spent just less than €15k getting my PPL in Weston. That includes everything, books, ground school, medical, exam fees, license fees, and of course flying costs! I got my PPL in 57 hours or thereabouts, I would have got it sooner (and cheaper) but I had to take nearly a full year out because of money issues, so that meant more flying to get back up to speed. Am delighted I did it, but it's a lot of money any way you look at it!

J.

Ye i reckon i spent about similar sort of money out in Weston getting my PPL. although it didnt seem so bad as it was spread out over 18 months.

Just curious jasonb how much flying have you done since getting the PPL? Due to finances I haven't done a lot. But the wife can say what she wants I worked hard enough to get it I am not going to let it lapse!

Stovepipe

Once you have got the PPL, the best way to keep it up and sustain the interest and enthusiasm is to have a look around the small airfields and get your name and face known to people, especially aircraft owners. Buy William Flood's airfield guide and just see how many airfields are out there, usually within a short drive of most people. Joining a club is a very good way to socialise with other pilots and to split the costs of flying and to get involved in touring flights. I'd also encourage fresh PPLs to do things like visit museums such as the Air Corps museum, the Flying Boat Museum, the UAS Museum in langford lodge, the Ulster Folk and transport museum, the glider boys up at Bellarena, the microlighters at Limetree in laois and so on. There are loads of fly-ins to attend and quite often , clubs make trips to the big shows and the great museums such as Duxford or Hendon or Cosford.

regards
Stovepipe

lomb

To avoid going above the 45 hours get a sticky note pad and write down the different lessons on sticky notes and then when you are happy with the notes ie neatness and clarity then staple them together. I can email anyone a copy of mine if they like. Just pm me. I think I have the whole PPL course on about 10 sticky notes. That includes emergencies. If the **** hits the fan and the engine fails(single engine piston aircraft are russian roulette and that always ends one way if you do it enough) you want the basics absolutely clear in your mind rather than trying to recall stuff. I would practice all the notes over and over again in your mind in your down time until they are second nature. Flying is very easy and great fun regardless of what anyone says and virtually anyone can do it safely who wants to.
Also find an instructor who has an interest in completing the course in the required hours. Generally these are the interested ones who are always pushing you and put alot of their energy into teaching.

logie101

lomb wrote: »

To avoid going above the 45 hours get a sticky note pad and write down the different lessons on sticky notes and then when you are happy with the notes ie neatness and clarity then staple them together. I can email anyone a copy of mine if they like. Just pm me. I think I have the whole PPL course on about 10 sticky notes. That includes emergencies. If the **** hits the fan and the engine fails(single engine piston aircraft are russian roulette and that always ends one way if you do it enough) you want the basics absolutely clear in your mind rather than trying to recall stuff. I would practice all the notes over and over again in your mind in your down time until they are second nature. Flying is very easy and great fun regardless of what anyone says and virtually anyone can do it safely who wants to.
Also find an instructor who has an interest in completing the course in the required hours. Generally these are the interested ones who are always pushing you and put alot of their energy into teaching.

100% agree with this post.

Get the most out of each lesson in the air by studying on the ground before you fly. Understand and rehearse as much on the ground before you fly. It will save a lot of wasted time in the air.

Steve.N

This all depends on what type of flying you'll do. I explored the GA route and found that most people don't own their own aircraft and are in syndicates which definately wouldn't suit me - I want to go flying when I want without having to book a slot so self ownership is the only way for me (and I definitely don't have a 50k budget!).
I opted to go the NPPL route for microlights. I travelled up to Tandragee in Northern Ireland where they use C42s which would be much more capable than something like a 150! It cost £100 per hr and had my license completely finished in 29hrs - adding on my exam, medical and traveling fees it cost me around £3500.
I'm now based in a predominately GA based airfield in Co-Meath and laugh at the boys taking their 150/172s out (usually only one up - max 2 up) burning around 15-20 gallons (57-75 Litres) of AVGAS where my microlight runs with my ultra reliable Rotax 912 sipping approx 11-15 litres of Mogas an hour. My aircraft has taken myself and my wife all around Ireland, Uk and to France. On a very modest budget I can therefore afford to do much more actual flying in my own machine than these other guys at my airfield (who all have to share aircraft). As I can squeeze my machine into almost any strip in Ireland (as I dont need 500m like the bigger boys - usually 250-300m suits me) meaning that the whole country is my playground.
There are more than one way to get yourself airborne!! My two flying companions are both professional airline pilots and wouldn't dream of going down the GA route due to all the hidden expenses that go with such a tightly regulated industry - my microlight gets permited every year for a couple of hundred euros but means that I can do all my own maintenance.

Best of luck whichever route that you decide to take!

lomb

What machine have you got Steve? I wouldnt be so sure about the Rotax. A new one is 12 grand so budget for that and one in the UFC seized just outside warranty and another one recently failed on approach as power was applied after full flap.
Other than that you are correct the maintainance on EASA aircraft is a rip off. It would be N reg or microlight if I was buying. Can you enter controlled airspace though in a microlight?

Steve.N

lomb wrote: »

What machine have you got Steve? I wouldnt be so sure about the Rotax. A new one is 12 grand so budget for that and one in the UFC seized just outside warranty and another one recently failed on approach as power was applied after full flap.
Other than that you are correct the maintainance on EASA aircraft is a rip off. It would be N reg or microlight if I was buying. Can you enter controlled airspace though in a microlight?

Hi Lomb,

Any engine could seize but worldwide the 912 is definitely the engine of choice in the UL world. When they were 1st manufactured in 1999 they had a TBO of 1200hrs, but as time has went on they have been proven to be so reliable this has now increased to 3000hrs! Just perform basic maintenance every 50-100hrs and it'll give you no trouble at all.
Yes, you can enter controlled airspace in a microlight- why wouldn't you? The RT is not part of the NPPL, but complete the course and get your full RT licence and you should get passage through any controlled airspace.

I've just moved over to fly flexwing microlights - I've recently purchased a 912 powered machine (this machine was flown to France regularly as well as all over the UK). I got hooked on the 'exposed flying experience!'

My point to the OP was that there's other options out there rather than just going the GA route to get himself into the air - after-all they are all fun and a great life-skill.
(A couple of my flying companions flew back two machines over the summer - one from Greece and one from Portugal with no issues, so these machines are well capable of covering distances).