PRT (Personal Rapid Transit). Could this be done in Ireland?

patrickbrophy18

I've been watching some very interesting documentaries in relation to sustainable travel patterns. A few of them have mentioned PRT (Personal Rapid Transit). It utilizes small pods (sort of like miniature trams) that are propelled by magnetic guide ways on various routes. More importantly, it uses a form of artificial intelligence which is independent of human input. I know that the concept is in its infancy in many countries. The question is, could PRT be a suitable replacement for the car over the next 30-50 years in Ireland (given the finite supply of oil on the planet)?

corktina

what will replace the petrol car when oil STARTS to run out, is more efficient petrol cars followed by alternative types of fuel in cars. There is no way you could run guided ways to even one percent of the destinations served by cars. Should any form of transport emerge to REPLACE cars, it will not be trams or trains or anything else needing massive investment in track infrastructure.

Cookie_Monster

you'll get automated gps and radar guided cars before anything else. The S class at this point has most of this tech already in it, not too much of a step to keep it going whilst lightening and improving efficiency of the current basic car layout.

FanadMan

We can't get enough motorways for the long distance. We can't get reliable train services for the outward living. We can't get proper bus lanes for local(ish) commuters or fast enough inner routes (Luas or Dart). How could this country get a real PRT service going? By the time we got it working, Star Trek transporter technology will be common in the rest of the world

Cookie_Monster

FanadMan wrote: »

We can't get enough motorways for the long distance.

There's motorways everywhere now and they're underused if anything.

endacl

I'm thinking 'no', especially on a micro scale.

For example, today I needed to drive from Terenure to Glasnevin and back. Nearly back and I remembered I needed to pick something up from near Nutgrove. I then decided to pop up to the Ma's for a cuppa. At the other end of Rathfarnham. A straightforward A-B-A journey suddenly went random. But still took less than an hour and a half.

Very simple in a car, but would tie a 'pod on a track' system into knots. We'll just never be that organised here. Nor should we want to be. Random makes life, well.... life.

T'would be a good system for robots.

Or Germans.

FanadMan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There's motorways everywhere now and they're underused if anything.

Motorways everywhere? Not one in here in Donegal - think there is only one dual carriageway and the rest is single lane each way. And where I live, you'd be pushed to get that

There is no way this country could afford to build the infrastructure needed for a proper PRT system. They can barely keep the national roads in useable condition.

But would really love to see a real PRT system up and running - imagine travelling like in the movies or the cartoons

bk

No

However in the long term I do think we will see a revolution in public transport.

Basically small electric cars, which drive themselves using GPS/radar, etc.

I can imagine a situation where people don't own a car, instead they rent one when they need it. They simply use an app on their iPhone and a one seater electric car will be dispatched (drive itself) from a local garage to your house, you get in it and go where you want to go and when finished the car drives itself back to the closest garage where it recharges.

You could also opt to rent larger vehicles, such as a four seater to take the whole family on a more long distance weekend trip or an electric van vehicle to buy gardening supplies, etc.

Of course this would have a big effect on a number of industries. Obviously taxi's would be wiped out. Also bus based public transport would probably be wiped out too.

Qualitymark

Or people could just cycle. Also efficient personal transport.

corktina

bk wrote: »

No

However in the long term I do think we will see a revolution in public transport.

Basically small electric cars, which drive themselves using GPS/radar, etc.

I can imagine a situation where people don't own a car, instead they rent one when they need it. They simply use an app on their iPhone and a one seater electric car will be dispatched (drive itself) from a local garage to your house, you get in it and go where you want to go and when finished the car drives itself back to the closest garage where it recharges.

You could also opt to rent larger vehicles, such as a four seater to take the whole family on a more long distance weekend trip or an electric van vehicle to buy gardening supplies, etc.

Of course this would have a big effect on a number of industries. Obviously taxi's would be wiped out. Also bus based public transport would probably be wiped out too.

gocar.ie in effect then? with added GPS radar of course (although they do do automatic cars, although I'm pretty sure you still have to steer them.

bk

Qualitymark wrote: »

Or people could just cycle. Also efficient personal transport.

I'm a cyclist myself and don't own a car (out of choice, not cost reasons *).

I see such a system as I describe being complimentary to a bike. You can't always take or depend on a bike (going out drinking, buying heavy items, etc.) and being able to rent an electric vehicle for those times can be very handy.

* Well I suppose if some one was to give me a car for free and pay from my tax, insurance, petrol, etc. I'd take it, but instead of buying a car, I've opted to save my money and spend it on going out and holidays, etc. instead.

corktina wrote: »

gocar.ie in effect then? with added GPS radar of course (although they do do automatic cars, although I'm pretty sure you still have to steer them.

Yes, in fact I think we today have a lot of different technologies which are the pre-cursors to this:

- gocar.ie rent a car as you need it.
- Hailo, order a car to your current location and the whole billing system.
- Electric vehicles like the leaf.
- Self driving cars currently being developed by the likes of Google in the US.

Judgement Day

bk wrote: »

No

However in the long term I do think we will see a revolution in public transport.

Basically small electric cars, which drive themselves using GPS/radar, etc.

I can imagine a situation where people don't own a car, instead they rent one when they need it. They simply use an app on their iPhone and a one seater electric car will be dispatched (drive itself) from a local garage to your house, you get in it and go where you want to go and when finished the car drives itself back to the closest garage where it recharges.

You could also opt to rent larger vehicles, such as a four seater to take the whole family on a more long distance weekend trip or an electric van vehicle to buy gardening supplies, etc.

Of course this would have a big effect on a number of industries. Obviously taxi's would be wiped out. Also bus based public transport would probably be wiped out too.

You've been watching too much sci-fi.:D

Qualitymark

bk wrote: »

- gocar.ie rent a car as you need it.

Can someone tell me what the price structure is in gocar.ie? I've looked at the website, but it doesn't give any prices until you sign up, and my desire to do so drains away under those conditions.

bk

Judgement Day, non of what I've written is particularly difficult, most of the technology to make it happen already exists today, it just needs to be refined, tested and brought down in price.

Do you honestly believe we won't have something like this in 100 years from now?

Hell I'd be surprised if this isn't the norm 50 years from now.

Much safer, more convenient, efficient, faster and environmentally friendly way to travel.

I think 50 years from now people will look back in horror at the idea of people driving their own massive car that has gas explosions going off in the front of it!

It will be much safer as you no longer have to worry about drunk or drugged drivers, the computer drives the vehicle.

More convenient as kids, elderly people and disabled people can use it to get to their destination, as they don't actually have to drive it themselves. Also more convenient for adults as they can work, watch TV, etc. while been driven to their destination.

More efficient as these vehicles would be more like the size of a bike, so take up much less road space then a car. It really is crazy that most days, most people are driving around in a large car with space for four people when, normally there is only one person in it! You could probably increase the capacity of our roads 4 to 5 fold by moving to a system like this.

It would be much faster because it is all computer controlled and all the electric vehicles would be communicating with one another, they can travel faster and closer together then a human can and they can also automatically plan the quickest route based on all the other vehicles.

And of course it would be more environmentally friendly as it would all be electric vehicles.

My question is, why wouldn't you want that?

bk

Qualitymark wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the price structure is in gocar.ie? I've looked at the website, but it doesn't give any prices until you sign up, and my desire to do so drains away under those conditions.

Err, the prices (Rates) is linked right on the front page:

http://www.gocar.ie/for-you/rates/

Qualitymark

bk wrote: »

Err, the prices (Rates) is linked right on the front page:

http://www.gocar.ie/for-you/rates/

Ah, last time I looked I don't think the rates were up at all. But even now, it's not clear: from the page:

When joining GoCar there is a once off fee of €50 and then a monthly fee of only €5. After that you simply pay for the trips you make.

On what basis is this calculated?

Is it financially feasible to use this for, say, your big weekly shop, and your winter buy of 10 bales of briquettes every couple of weeks?

How does the insurance work?

foggy_lad

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah, last time I looked I don't think the rates were up at all. But even now, it's not clear: from the page:



On what basis is this calculated?

Is it financially feasible to use this for, say, your big weekly shop, and your winter buy of 10 bales of briquettes every couple of weeks?

How does the insurance work?

Says fully comp insurance is included along with all fuel and also you pay €40-€50 per 24hours but also 45cent per Kilometre which is presumably to cover the fuel?

bk

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah, last time I looked I don't think the rates were up at all. But even now, it's not clear: from the page:

Really, it is all there very clearly laid out on the page:
- €50 sign up
- €5 per month subscirption

And then depending on the type of car you want, for instance:

Ford Fiesta type car:
Between 08:00 and 20:00 €4.99 per hour
Between 20:00 and 08:00 €2.49 per hour
or €40 for 24 hours
plus 45 cent per km

All fuel, tax and insurance is included in the above costs.

I really don't know how you couldn't see this on the site!!

Qualitymark wrote: »

Is it financially feasible to use this for, say, your big weekly shop, and your winter buy of 10 bales of briquettes every couple of weeks?

To be honest, for the big weekly shop, I find it easier, quicker and cheaper to use one of the grocery delivery services from Tesco or Superquinn.

Qualitymark

bk wrote: »

To be honest, for the big weekly shop, I find it easier, quicker and cheaper to use one of the grocery delivery services from Tesco or Superquinn.

Superquinn or Tesco are far too dear. The GoCar service sounds rather expensive as well. Nice idea; I might catch up with it if the price comes down.

Thanks for the price information.

Woofstuff

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah, last time I looked I don't think the rates were up at all. But even now, it's not clear: from the page:



On what basis is this calculated?

Is it financially feasible to use this for, say, your big weekly shop, and your winter buy of 10 bales of briquettes every couple of weeks?

How does the insurance work?

Why do you ask all these questions when the answer is on the page, read past the first two lines on the page!!

monument

Judgement Day wrote: »

You've been watching too much sci-fi.:D]

And you have not seen the Google self-driving car work yet?

http://youtu.be/cdgQpa1pUUE

Can't see why one would not be able to drive from a depot to somebody's home on its own. There's no tech reason for it anyway.

bk

Qualitymark wrote: »

Superquinn or Tesco are far too dear.

Don't know about Tesco, but Superquinn delivery is between €4 and €8 depending on what day you want the delivery.

I almost never pay delivery as their is normally a voucher for free superquinn delivery on the net. Often there is also a voucher for 20% off too, I'd say at least every second time I get a delivery, making it fantastic value for money.

Then you also have to take into account your time savings and fuel savings. The first time or two ordering online can be slow, but once you have built up a history of items it only takes about 5 minutes to do the weekly shop!

Judgement Day

bk - at least we agree on home delivery but sadly living in the bog, with 5 almost equally useless supermarkets and trying to buy organic, it isn't a practical option. Shanks' mare for me - at least it keeps me fit.

Qualitymark

bk wrote: »

Don't know about Tesco, but Superquinn delivery is between €4 and €8 depending on what day you want the delivery.

I almost never pay delivery as their is normally a voucher for free superquinn delivery on the net. Often there is also a voucher for 20% off too, I'd say at least every second time I get a delivery, making it fantastic value for money.

Then you also have to take into account your time savings and fuel savings. The first time or two ordering online can be slow, but once you have built up a history of items it only takes about 5 minutes to do the weekly shop!

I use a bike mostly, and shop in Aldi and Lidl. The cost is stupendously cheaper, and the quality generally higher.

bk

Qualitymark wrote: »

I use a bike mostly, and shop in Aldi and Lidl. The cost is stupendously cheaper, and the quality generally higher.

Do you use some sort of cargo bike or carrier to do that?

My closest Aldi/Lidl is 6km away!

I typically get a superquinn delivery once a month of the heavy, non-perishable items (water, juice, toilet paper, etc.) and go to my local shop weekly for fresh fruit and veg.

The quality of food from Superquinn is superb, second to non. But it is more expensive, but then I get 20% off often, which really helps bring down the price.

Qualitymark

bk wrote: »

Do you use some sort of cargo bike or carrier to do that?

My closest Aldi/Lidl is 6km away!

I typically get a superquinn delivery once a month of the heavy, non-perishable items (water, juice, toilet paper, etc.) and go to my local shop weekly for fresh fruit and veg.

The quality of food from Superquinn is superb, second to non. But it is more expensive, but then I get 20% off often, which really helps bring down the price.

I don't! Just a bike with a basket. I've three Lidls and two Aldis within a mile. So I generally pick up this and that as I need it. The problems are any big shops, especially if they include things like the 12 litres of fizzy water (€2.59 in Aldi), for instance - undoable on the bike; even on the bus difficult as you have to hoik a wheelie up on to the platform, along the bus, up on to the luggage shelf and down and down again when you get off.

Then in winter there's the heating problem; I could get €100 worth of briquettes (around 30 bales where I get them) and have them delivered for another €10. Oh, wait, though, there's an extra €1 on each bale under the Government's tax-the-poor-inequitably initiative, so that'll be €130 for those bales, plus the tenner for delivery. (Sorry, just mumbling there.)

Aldi drops the price of six chosen fruit and vegetables to 35c or 39c every week, and I usually load up on these - https://www.aldi.ie/en/product-range/super-6/

However, we're drifting off topic a little here. The Go-Car sounds great, if you'd use it regularly.

bk

Qualitymark wrote: »

Then in winter there's the heating problem; I could get €100 worth of briquettes (around 30 bales where I get them) and have them delivered for another €10.

€10 seems reasonable as does €4 - €8 for grocery deliveries.

Just think how much it would cost to own and operate a car in comparison.

corktina

how did we get here? :-)

Qualitymark

corktina wrote: »

how did we get here? :-)

I think we hired a PRT with a dodgy satnav!

Edit: Returning briefly to the thread-creep, I'm very cautious about delivery payments, asking the careful questions:

* What percentage of the price of a batch of groceries and fuel is worth paying for delivery, and
* Will having to pay this make me spend uneconomically.

Bike trailers look interesting. There's a nice one on Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skiiddii-Single-Yellow-Trailer-Delivery/dp/B007D34WHO/ref=sr_1_1?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1375097246&sr=1-1&keywords=Skiiddii though it's not delivered to Ireland. I might consider getting one and bringing it back next time I go over (I generally take the ferry and trains).

I see that Heathrow had PRTs running two years ago http://www.gizmag.com/heathrow-ultra-prt-system/19493/ - anyone used them, and are they still on the go?

L1011

bk wrote: »

Don't know about Tesco, but Superquinn delivery is between €4 and €8 depending on what day you want the delivery.

I suspect he meant their products. Which they are - everyday basics are horrendously dear in both of them. Far more than 20% dearer - how do you think they can offer that discount so easily?

Local Lidl, butchers, greengrocers etc are all within cycling distance of me but there's far too much to carry on a bike.

Qualitymark

MYOB wrote: »

I suspect he meant their products. Which they are - everyday basics are horrendously dear in both of them. Far more than 20% dearer - how do you think they can offer that discount so easily?

Local Lidl, butchers, greengrocers etc are all within cycling distance of me but there's far too much to carry on a bike.

For the small stuff it's doable - go to the butcher and get belly of pork, to Aldi for apples, oranges and onions, brown sugar, olive oil and cider, to the Asian shop for star anise and cinnamon stick, and to Dunne's or Superquinn for rice and wine vinegar. That's dinner for the night, and a freezer treat for next week. If you need lentils, you could even go to Tesco - they're cheaper for lentils, and, oddly, good for flash drives (got this cute little one in a 16GB version last month http://www.tesco.com/direct/sandisk-cruzer-facet-usb-flash-drive-silver-8gb/170-0729.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=170-0729 ).

It's the heavy stuff where you need the car. That and the occasional treat like taking the dog to Killiney or Glenasmole for a long walk. And that's where something like GoCar will be great if economies of scale bring the prices down.