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Breach of housing standards in UCD accommodation

  • 26-07-2013 4:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 19


    Is anyone aware that UCD (Glenomena and possibly others) residences are in breach of the minimum rented accommodation standards by not providing an oven and a grill.

    Does anyone know if UCD are planning on rectifying this situation by installing ovens and grills in the residences?

    Perhaps it's just me, but I think that it's a sad state of affairs that our largest university is providing sub-standard accommodation to it's students.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    I think, and I'm open to correction on this, but on campus accommodation is not actually rented accommodation - this is why you pay a residential fee, rather than rent, and sign a license to reside, rather than a lease.

    What it that means is that they're under no obligation to keep to minimum rental standards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Maldesu


    Raphael wrote: »
    and sign a license to reside, rather than a lease.

    Fairly certain that's right. I remember reading up on the accommodation once and remember that there was a odd license to reside. Probably is done this way so they don't have to provide the minimum. Refitting the buildings is probably a cost they want to avoid so this is a way around it.

    *Off topic - Raph, there is a MLP forum now?! The bronies must be pleased.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Maldesu wrote: »
    Fairly certain that's right. I remember reading up on the accommodation once and remember that there was a odd license to reside. Probably is done this way so they don't have to provide the minimum. Refitting the buildings is probably a cost they want to avoid so this is a way around it.

    *Off topic - Raph, there is a MLP forum now?! The bronies must be pleased.

    Well, interestingly, pre-renovation apartments all had ovens, it's just since they did them up they went with just microwaves and hobs. Presumably they figured that would cover most student needs.

    And yes, there is and we are. =)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 pauliemck


    It seems they've thought of everything then. It's amazing how easy it is not to conform to legislation when you have a good legal team.

    I wonder if some landlords with sub-standard lettings are getting some ideas from this thread. Although, I imagine that they would find it slightly more difficult to get away with these things than UCD. Had a quick look there and it seems that none of the newer residences (Glenomena, Blackrock, Proby and Roebuck Hall) have ovens. That's four of the six non-catered UCD residences. That must have saved them a lot of money...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Yes, it's a licence to reside, not a private tenancy

    http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/license_to_reside.pdf

    Students living on residence are more akin to nursing home patients, or residential inmates than private tenants, in the eyes of the law:pac:

    Still though, bit daft not to give people ovens. They're effectively asking you guys to just eat a lot of pre-prepared junk.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    I would have gone with hotel or hostel guests, personally, but your examples work too.

    I doubt a landlord would try to pull such a stunt because, frankly, a tenant would walk away.

    There's still a hob, I believe, which is what I mainly cooked on when I was in college (mmm, pasta). Oven was mainly used for frozen pizzas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Alan_P


    <Hit submit twice>


  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Alan_P


    Yes, it's a licence to reside, not a private tenancy

    http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/license_to_reside.pdf

    Students living on residence are more akin to nursing home patients, or residential inmates than private tenants, in the eyes of the law:pac:
    Well that's certainly what UCD want students to believe. It's entirely possible that if the issue ever got in front of a judge, he'd rule that the "License To Reside" concept is a legal nonsense designed to deprive residents of their rights, and that student residents are in fact private tenants.

    Let's face it, any commercial landlord could try to avoid his legal responsibilies by claiming it's not a tenancy and issuing similar documents. The courts wouldn't entertain it for a second, and there's no guarantee they'd accept UCD's scheme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Tayto2000


    Yes, it's a licence to reside, not a private tenancy

    http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/license_to_reside.pdf

    Students living on residence are more akin to nursing home patients, or residential inmates than private tenants, in the eyes of the law:pac:

    Still though, bit daft not to give people ovens. They're effectively asking you guys to just eat a lot of pre-prepared junk.

    I had one of these when I was renting, the flat only had a hob and a sink.

    Taking the ovens out might have been related to the frequent fire alarms and near misses they were causing? Or maybe they were just end of life cycle and they decided not to replace them...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Alan_P wrote: »
    It's entirely possible that if the issue ever got in front of a judge, he'd rule that the "License To Reside" concept is a legal nonsense designed to deprive residents of their rights, and that student residents are in fact private tenants.
    No, it's completely legal. Leases, and most tenancy law only apply in the case when you rent a dwelling. If you just provide use of a room, they don't. Owner-occupiers always use a LtR, for instance.
    Alan_P wrote: »
    Let's face it, any commercial landlord could try to avoid his legal responsibilies by claiming it's not a tenancy and issuing similar documents. The courts wouldn't entertain it for a second, and there's no guarantee they'd accept UCD's scheme.
    If he was an owner occupier, or just renting the rooms to individual tenant separately, it would be legal to use an LtR over a lease. Difference is that in the real letting market, most renters would run a mile from that kind of arrangement.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Alan_P wrote: »
    Well that's certainly what UCD want students to believe. It's entirely possible that if the issue ever got in front of a judge, he'd rule that the "License To Reside" concept is a legal nonsense designed to deprive residents of their rights, and that student residents are in fact private tenants.
    No, 'license to reside' is a term that is known to law.

    License to reside is usually associated with nursing homes, half-way houses, and residential care facilities, but high dependency is obviously not a necessary ingredient of such a license.

    The residency revolves around a specific, common objective between the landlord and tenant, on a basis that is never intended to be permanent, and is not open to the public at large.

    There are of course legitimate concerns about privacy, and I seem to remember a specific concern about RAs videotaping the inside of student apartments. That is something that, if still ongoing, is legally dubious (even if mentioned in the license itself)


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 tebbie


    Put over 2,000 students in your accommodation.
    Let first drunken night out of the year ensue.
    Students come home.
    Pizza gets thrown in the oven.
    Guarantee you a fire in each of the residences.

    I know it sucks and the license to reside is bull, I live there, but you have to admit they kind of have a point...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    So why have there not already been fires in each of the residences where there are ovens?

    tebbie, pizzas (and worse) are flung in filthy ovens every night of the week, in student flats in every corner of Ireland, with no known fatalities.

    I would agree with Tayto2000 that this is a smoke alarm issue, and within that, I would say it is specifically a convenience issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 tebbie


    I meant more the inconvenience of the smoke alarms going off etc. Just more work than they're after, if you get what I mean.
    Easier for them to rule out all possibilities!


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Laserhead


    I briefly stayed in Trinity Halls before I transferred over to UCD (saw the light etc.). They had every apartment fully kitted out with ovens, grills, hobs, microwaves and toasters There were endless cases of fire alarms going off. In the first three weeks I was there the guys in the apartments below us managed to cause multiple evacuations by doing the following:

    1. Testing out their new toaster while drunk. Left it on full and went to the bathroom, smoke and heat set off the alarm.

    2. Getting back from a club and trying to reheat their takeaway in their microwave while still in the foil container. The sparks caused whatever crud they'd left in it to smoke, setting off the alarm.

    3. Setting their chip pan on fire and trying to put it out with water instead of the fire blanket. This was the most serious one, but they managed to use the giant hallway fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

    I would definitely trust students more with ovens more than any other kind of cooking appliance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Dapics


    Laserhead wrote: »
    I briefly stayed in Trinity Halls before I transferred over to UCD (saw the light etc.). They had every apartment fully kitted out with ovens, grills, hobs, microwaves and toasters There were endless cases of fire alarms going off. In the first three weeks I was there the guys in the apartments below us managed to cause multiple evacuations by doing the following:

    1. Testing out their new toaster while drunk. Left it on full and went to the bathroom, smoke and heat set off the alarm.

    2. Getting back from a club and trying to reheat their takeaway in their microwave while still in the foil container. The sparks caused whatever crud they'd left in it to smoke, setting off the alarm.

    3. Setting their chip pan on fire and trying to put it out with water instead of the fire blanket. This was the most serious one, but they managed to use the giant hallway fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

    I would definitely trust students more with ovens more than any other kind of cooking appliance.


    Hahaahahah Feckiin Buzzers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Laserhead wrote: »
    I briefly stayed in Trinity Halls before I transferred over to UCD (saw the light etc.). They had every apartment fully kitted out with ovens, grills, hobs, microwaves and toasters There were endless cases of fire alarms going off. In the first three weeks I was there the guys in the apartments below us managed to cause multiple evacuations by doing the following:

    1. Testing out their new toaster while drunk. Left it on full and went to the bathroom, smoke and heat set off the alarm.

    2. Getting back from a club and trying to reheat their takeaway in their microwave while still in the foil container. The sparks caused whatever crud they'd left in it to smoke, setting off the alarm.

    3. Setting their chip pan on fire and trying to put it out with water instead of the fire blanket. This was the most serious one, but they managed to use the giant hallway fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

    I would definitely trust students more with ovens more than any other kind of cooking appliance.

    Looks like they need to invest in a safety course... or just a dose of common sense, either either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Kiltennel


    Laserhead wrote: »
    I briefly stayed in Trinity Halls before I transferred over to UCD (saw the light etc.). They had every apartment fully kitted out with ovens, grills, hobs, microwaves and toasters There were endless cases of fire alarms going off. In the first three weeks I was there the guys in the apartments below us managed to cause multiple evacuations by doing the following:

    1. Testing out their new toaster while drunk. Left it on full and went to the bathroom, smoke and heat set off the alarm.

    2. Getting back from a club and trying to reheat their takeaway in their microwave while still in the foil container. The sparks caused whatever crud they'd left in it to smoke, setting off the alarm.

    3. Setting their chip pan on fire and trying to put it out with water instead of the fire blanket. This was the most serious one, but they managed to use the giant hallway fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

    I would definitely trust students more with ovens more than any other kind of cooking appliance.

    Problem with an oven is the food doesn't require constant monitoring while it's cooking. Student comes home pissed, throws something in the oven that takes 15-20 minutes to cook and passes out while waiting. Food begins to smoke and sets the alarm off. When you have 6 students sharing an apartment together this sort of stuff is more frequent than expected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Vorophobe


    Kiltennel wrote: »
    Problem with an oven is the food doesn't require constant monitoring while it's cooking. Student comes home pissed, throws something in the oven that takes 15-20 minutes to cook and passes out while waiting. Food begins to smoke and sets the alarm off. When you have 6 students sharing an apartment together this sort of stuff is more frequent than expected.

    How do these people make it past childhood xD


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