Minister 'embarrassed' after his speeding summons struck out.

mb1725

Minister Simon Coveney's car clocked by speed van in Cobh, but he was not driving:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/simon-coveney-embarassed-over-speeding-summons-for-his-driver-601763.html

BMJD

Why was it struck out? Shouldn't the driver get the fine and points instead? Why didn't he just nominate the driver when the original fine was sent to him?

Scortho

mb1725 wrote: »

Minister Simon Coveney's car clocked by speed van in Cobh, but he was not driving:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/simon-coveney-embarassed-over-speeding-summons-for-his-driver-601763.html

Surely the driver should have got the points then?

Fred Swanson

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Scortho

Fred Swanson wrote: »

How comes he didn't get the usual 4 points and €800 fine like any other peasant that would tender such a story in court?

It is great being a minister.

Because he wasn't driving. If you can satisfy the judge that you weren't driving the car, then why would he give you points.

Fred Swanson

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mb1725

Apparently the speed van operator gave evidence in court that he couldn't tell who was driving!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

6 and a half mile per hour over the limit......burn him......

mb1725

Mr Coveney was only listed on the summons because the gardai had not been notified within the requisite period about who the actual driver was.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/coveney-embarrassed-by-speeding-summons-29450022.html

Scortho

Fred Swanson wrote: »

But you see that line won't work in many courts where they just accept the RO was driving.

Seeing as he failed to complete the original paperwork he should be punished.

But he satisfied the judge that he wasn't.
I don't know how he satisfied the judge/what he said to the judge, all I can tell from that story was that he didn't get points because he was the person driving.

At the end of the day, loads of people in this country had points struck off because the letter never "arrived".
Just because it was a minister people want a witch hunt.
Now had he said that he was driving but was on ministerial business and had them wrote off, then I wouldn't be happy.

Valetta

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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If he wasn't driving then it's not tendering a story, it's just telling the truth.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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He had to pay €200 to a court nominated charity.

_Kaiser_

Fair enough he wasn't driving so the points/fine won't apply on his license...

.. but why was the driver not made take the hit? - y'know like anyone else would have to in the same circumstance?

Answer: He's a TD. The judges are appointed by the President/government... join the dots.

From Wikipedia ...

Judicial appointments are frequently thought to be politically motivated. In an interview in the Autumn 2012 edition of The Parchment, Mr Justice Peter Kelly head of the Commercial Court and head of the Association of Judges of Ireland said the appointments to the Supreme Court were "purely political".
He went on to say the creation of the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board (JAAB) in 1996 "was done to create the semblance of independence as to how judges were appointed" but "the JAAB by common consent, doesn't really work". He continued "We all know of cases of people who would be excellent judicial appointments and are passed over in favour of people who are not so well qualified." He called for an independent body to appoint judges.

Valetta

Because the relevant paperwork wasn't filled in by Coveney.

You may as well ask why I wasn't given the fine and points.

Nothing to do with who he is as far as I can see.

_Kaiser_

Scortho wrote: »

Now had he said that he was driving but was on ministerial business and had them wrote off, then I wouldn't be happy.

If that had been the case I highly doubt the case would have even seen a courtroom.

_Kaiser_

Valetta wrote: »

Because the relevant paperwork wasn't filled in by Coveney.

You may as well ask why I wasn't given the fine and points.

Nothing to do with who he is as far as I can see.

So if *I* get snapped for speeding, don't do anything when the paperwork arrives and get summonsed, I can just say "I wasn't driving Judge" and that'll be the end of it?

I wouldn't even take that as an e/w bet!

Valetta

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So if *I* get snapped for speeding, don't do anything when the paperwork arrives and get summonsed, I can just say "I wasn't driving Judge" and that'll be the end of it?

I wouldn't even take that as an e/w bet!

You'd be committing perjury.

Not to be recommended.

Fred Swanson

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_Kaiser_

Valetta wrote: »

You'd be committing perjury.

Not to be recommended.

You still haven't explained why the person who WAS driving wasn't made take the points/fine though.

Fred Swanson

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Mr Simpson

If his official driver was driving, then that would be a Garda, no?

Therefore, exempt from most of the Road Traffic Act while on duty

Valetta

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You still haven't explained why the person who WAS driving wasn't made take the points/fine though.

Because he wasn't nominated within the required space of time, and Coveney had to pay €200 as punishment.

Valetta

Mr Simpson wrote: »

If his official driver was driving, then that would be a Garda, no?

Therefore, exempt from most of the Road Traffic Act while on duty

Not sure, butI think that since state cars were done away with, Ministers could employ their own drivers.

Fred Swanson

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cast_iron

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Fair enough he wasn't driving so the points/fine won't apply on his license...

.. but why was the driver not made take the hit? - y'know like anyone else would have to in the same circumstance?

Answer: He's a TD. The judges are appointed by the President/government... join the dots.

This is nonsense. If the judge believes an ordinary Joe, then he will get off too.

I was caught speeding and somehow the payment was not received by the fines office. A summons to court later, and I explained that yes, I was 40km/h over the limit, but some administrative error occurred somewhere. Even though I was guilty, it was struck out and I was asked to make a donation to charity.

I'm not a minister, nor do I know any. Ordinary Joe soaps get off these sort of charges too if the judge believes them. Of course, the judge could have said I believe you, but tough luck, take double the punishment (ie. 4 points). That's the risk you run with such a strategy.

The person who was driving got off in this case because they weren't being prosecuted. The law works funny sometimes. It was a case of double the punishment for the car owner, or strike the whole thing out.

Valetta

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I think the Minister for Justice and the Tainiste still have official cars and garda drivers.

creedp

Valetta wrote: »

Not sure, butI think that since state cars were done away with, Ministers could employ their own drivers.

I think you're correct with the exception of the Taoiseach, Tanaiste, Minister for Justice and maybe also the President. So basically a serving Minister was able to ensure that his driver could avoid penalty points by not reporting his name to the Gardai in time .. cost €200 - I wonder how much mileage will he have to 'claim for' to pay for that.

I also wonder if this loophole is available to all citizens. I've heard people transferring points they got to a spouse/family member, i.e. naming them as the driver when the speeding offence took place but I've never heard of someone avoiding penalty points completely by simply keeping quiet and then claiming I wasn't the driver so don't be looking at me. I would have though if he couldn't prove he wasn't driving (e.g. by naming someone else) then he is presumed to be driving? Can see the incidence of 'perjury' increasing after this case - pull on that balaclava and go for a burn!!.

Mr Simpson

I'm pretty sure that even though they don't have full time drivers, ministers can apply for a driver from a pool for official duties

Guy:Incognito

Jemma Beautiful Hag wrote: »

6 and a half mile per hour over the limit......burn him......

Was there not another unit of measurement you could use to make the number sound smaller again? Its 11 kilometers per hour over. We use kilometers her and the notice was issued in kilometers.

MuppetCheck

So effectively €200 to get off the points. That's great value, sure a bribe would probably be more than that.

Corkbah

so the result is.... ignore the fine, get court date and inform the court [insert shaggy style voice] it wasn't me .... and no penalty points (no problem with taking the fine - as you'd get hit with a fine anyway)

I would like to know who was actually driving - if the Minister has said it wasn't him, but failed to notify the state of who it actually was then maybe the minister should be quizzed a bit more.....it looks to me like the minister has unveiled another loophole to avoiding penalty points, like Shatter with his ...I'm an asthmatic ...cant breathalise me, and while I'm here ... actually don't you know who I am, I'm outta here.

so being an asthmatic means you can avoid being breathalised (which if someone is over the limit could give them enough time to sober up, by the time they are eventually tested)

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Was there not another unit of measurement you could use to make the number sound smaller again? Its 11 kilometers per hour over. We use kilometers her and the notice was issued in kilometers.

I think using the smaller unit was kinda my way of demonstrating the low relaitve velocity in terms more people can relate to, and part of my savage wit and cutting cynical humour, this being a motoring forum for lovers of speed and all that. 11km is about a standard jogging rate, so if he hit a jogger in the back the combined speed of the impact would have been at the speedlimit.

On the topic of pointing out things that dont need pointing out, they use kilometers in america, here we use kilometres.

Valetta

MuppetCheck wrote: »

So effectively €200 to get off the points. That's great value, sure a bribe would probably be more than that.

What points?

The judge was satisfied that he wasn't driving.

The €200 is for a completely different offence.

Fred Swanson

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MuppetCheck

Valetta wrote: »

What points?

The judge was satisfied that he wasn't driving.

The €200 is for a completely different offence.

The wording is open to interpretation I suppose, I took it that he failed to send back the form saying who the driver was, proved he wasn't driving and for not returning it he got fined. I interpreted it that it was over and done with as it doesn't mention the offence being placed on the professional driver.

Fred Swanson

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