Vented Low Pressure System Boiler - Filter

danjo-xx

In a clean water area is it adviseable to have a filter fitted, like magnaclean when getting this new boiler in.

Being advised its not really necessary as in a clean water area and anyway there is a gauze filter in the boiler which can be cleaned. But I'm worried about any gunk that might be in the old system even after power flushing.

thanks

Outkast_IRE

danjo-xx wrote: »

In a clean water area is it adviseable to have a filter fitted, like magnaclean when getting this new boiler in.

Being advised its not really necessary as in a clean water area and anyway there is a gauze filter in the boiler which can be cleaned. But I'm worried about any gunk that might be in the old system even after power flushing.

thanks

Yes its a good idea to fit a magnaclean or similar.
It may not be necessary, but it is certainly recommended, I would always recommend one and its only on jobs where every penny counts for the client when they aren't fitted.

I don't think anybody should fit magnacleans or similar filters thank you. It would really worry me if they did start fitting them as this would have a massive impact:( on the longevity of a gas boiler.

As I work for a boiler manufacture I think it's great most installers don't see the value in them and householders have decided they are a waste of money, I would be very disappointed if this was to change.

scudo2

gary71 wrote: »

I don't think anybody should fit magnacleans or similar filters thank you. It would really worry me if they did start fitting them as this would have a massive impact:( on the longevity of a gas boiler.

As I work for a boiler manufacture I think it's great most installers don't see the value in them and householders have decided they are a waste of money, I would be very disappointed if this was to change.

Hi Garry.
What are the pro's and con's for fitting one please.
I'm not convinced as I think that if the system is ok and inhibitor used. I've only found problems when system had a leak or pitching in the exp tank causing sludge and internal rusting.

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

Hi Garry.
What are the pro's and con's for fitting one please.
I'm not convinced as I think that if the system is ok and inhibitor used. I've only found problems when system had a leak or pitching in the exp tank causing sludge and internal rusting.

Biggest killer of gas boilers is sludge.

I'm impressed with the faith RGI's show with heating systems/boiler longevity, certainly with power flushing you can get a heating system extremely clean but that's just a snapshot in time, how long will it last?.

Heating systems leak more often than not reducing the ability of the inhibitor to do its thing, other "tradesmen" can come in after you drain down and not replenish the inhibitor, customers can accidentally drain a system losing the protection of the inhibitor.

Long story short there are many factors to why a system can start sludging again destroying a boiler. Something as simple as a filter can protect the boiler and if it's checked yearly can identify the problem before it ends in tears, I think if these filters were fitted there would be less boilers swapped out after 4 years(ish) of service, less chance of a installer pulling his/her hair out over a sludged up system that had been flushed and more importantly customers wouldn't be put in the position of having to replace newish boilers.

I think you'd have to be mad not to fit them as a given.

shane0007

gary71 wrote: »

I don't think anybody should fit magnacleans or similar filters thank you. It would really worry me if they did start fitting them as this would have a massive impact:( on the longevity of a gas boiler.

As I work for a boiler manufacture I think it's great most installers don't see the value in them and householders have decided they are a waste of money, I would be very disappointed if this was to change.

But you said you "DON'T" think anybody should fit them.
Confused!!!

shane0007

shane0007 wrote: »

But you said you "DON'T" think anybody should fit them.
Confused!!!

Its called "reverse psychology":cool:


Another one would be " Shane please ring me, our conversations are so witty and intellectual". Reverse psychology;) see, its the opposite of what you want.

shane0007

gary71 wrote: »

Its called "reverse psychology":cool:


Another one would be " Shane please ring me, our conversations are so witty and intellectual". Reverse psychology;) see, its the opposite of what you want.

Hmmm...
Mind now. I can see you ending up hypnotising yourself lying on that couch!

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

Hmmm...
Mind now. I can see you ending up hypnotising yourself lying on that

U been sniffing the gas again ? There's a lonely plumber in Cork you should talk to.

DGOBS

Even with a clean system and good inhibitor levels some electrolytic corrosion will take place, so if metal (Hr4 type black steel) rads are used, a magnaclean can only help!

scudo2

DGOBS wrote: »

Even with a clean system and good inhibitor levels some electrolytic corrosion will take place, so if metal (Hr4 type black steel) rads are used, a magnaclean can only help!

As ye know I only deal with lovely big solid oil boilers rather than gas with flimsy heat exchangers that ye all love. I know magiclean will help but if I find a system sludging ill look for the cause first. There should be feck all sludge in system properly installed and working properly.
Again I'm talking about my personal experence with oil as I haven't had to lower my standards and do gas.
Please do not reply with a load of waffel please if you have been sniffing gas lately .

DGOBS

As someone who worked for an oil boiler manufacturer in engineering for 12+ years and on oil installations for 20+ years I am pretty sure you don't mean me :rolleyes:

If you believe that the laws of physics and the properties of materials used in the manufacture of boilers and radiators in your area through some divine intervention in your area don't apply, well done, you should publish a paper (FLUSH)

And also given the restrictions now found in condensing OIL boiler heatexchangers, they are now more at risk of sludging issues, or maybe Stevie up in Grant got that wrong, and he also lacks your knowledge and experience, and the fact they agree with the fitting of magnetic filters for their appliances is also incorrect.

ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER:cool:

scudo2

DGOBS wrote: »

As someone who worked for an oil boiler manufacturer in engineering for 12+ years and on oil installations for 20+ years I am pretty sure you don't mean me :rolleyes:

If you believe that the laws of physics and the properties of materials used in the manufacture of boilers and radiators in your area through some divine intervention in your area don't apply, well done, you should publish a paper (FLUSH)

And also given the restrictions now found in condensing OIL boiler heatexchangers, they are now more at risk of sludging issues, or maybe Stevie up in Grant got that wrong, and he also lacks your knowledge and experience, and the fact they agree with the fitting of magnetic filters for their appliances is also incorrect.

ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER:cool:

Thanks, another valid reason why second stage condensing heat exchangers should only be at the TOP of oil boilers.

ps. Would a fridge magnet work on an oil boiler?

DGOBS

they are on a Grant boiler, but still can suffer the same fate, top or bottom would not make any difference (as they are boiler sealed units with flow/return outlets)

Fridge magnets? WTF..really?

scudo2

DGOBS wrote: »

they are on a Grant boiler, but still can suffer the same fate, top or bottom would not make any difference (as they are boiler sealed units with flow/return outlets)

Fridge magnets? WTF..really?

You can also recondition oil burner nozzles to European Standards by leaving them in a glass of Coke Cola overnight.

ps. Shane might come back saying it has to be Pepsi Max !!!

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

You can also recondition oil burner nozzles to European Standards by leaving them in a glass of Coke Cola overnight.

ps. Shane might come back saying it has to be Pepsi Max !!!

Hope you all know I'm jokeing of cource.

scudo2

DGOBS wrote: »

they are on a Grant boiler, but still can suffer the same fate, top or bottom would not make any difference (as they are boiler sealed units with flow/return outlets)

Fridge magnets? WTF..really?

Gerkros. Warmflow. Grant and Worcherter all on top resulting in any debris been flush out of narrow condensing part to big base of boiler where it won't cause as much a problem as it would in bottom entry to firebirds condensing heat exchanger.

shane0007

Would you buy a new car & re-use the oil from your old car? It's the same when fitting a new boiler?
The system has to work harder, pumping crap around the system, leads to significant losses in efficiency within the system.
Oil boilers have larger passage ways than gas boilers but they do not have less sludge! Therefore the issue does raise its weary head as often. That does not mean that it is not a problem on oil boiler systems.
The position of the secondary heat exchanger is not really an issue as the secondary heat exchanger will always be on the return in all HE boilers, so no matter what it is the first receiver of the boiler of crud from the system, whether that be top or bottom of the boiler.

DGOBS

Would be little or nothing to do with why the design engineer(s) put them there
(flushing should remove sludge, not shift it to the main boiler jacket

scudo2

Blame Garry
I didn't start the BS
Just thought I'll sturr it a bit.

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

Blame Garry
I didn't start the BS
Just thought I'll sturr it a bit.

I bet your mates loved you at school.


To move away from any perceived BS a magnaclean filter should be fitted at all times when practical, this is for the benefit of the installer, the customers wallet and the longevity of the boiler.

shane0007

scudo2 wrote: »

Blame Garry
I didn't start the BS
Just thought I'll sturr it a bit.

Be careful. You won't be allowed to cross our bridge!

scudo2

gary71 wrote: »

I bet your mates loved you at school.


To move away from any perceived BS a magnaclean filter should be fitted at all times when practical, this is for the benefit of the installer, the customers wallet and the longevity of the boiler.

Totally agree. I just wish that they were compulsary. So that when pricing new boilers we would all be on a level playing field.
Cost is small in relation to a full instulation or new house but big difference if your only doing a replacment. Hard pushed to promote Vortex over standard, let alone all the optional extras like magiclean.
Hard pushed to even get them to change old for new even tho they could save over a grand a year in fuel.
Cute Cork Whores my ass!!!

danjo-xx

Jaysus lads I have to get a new boiler and going from oil to gas (for convenience) reading the posts here about the pros n cons of heat exchangers, and filters etc and the short life of condensing boilers makes me feel like getting electric storage heating in:D

Old system had problems with pitching so I reckon its manky, Power flushing costs about €450 from what I can see, not cheap, would an installer normally do this, or do I need to get a plumber to do it.

shane0007

danjo-xx wrote: »

and the short life of condensing boilers makes me feel like getting electric storage heating in:D

Don't know where you got that from. If you bought a new car & expected tar to lubricate the engine, I'm sure it's life expectancy would be shortened too.
Even if you ran a HE boiler on an unclean system, the efficiency would be degraded dramatically.

Mechanical Powerflushing should be standard practice on all new boiler installations but unfortunately it is not.
Generally, it will not cost as much as €450 along side a boiler changeover as it is discounted then. A one-off powerflush would cost typically that when done on its own.

For your system, I would certainly look at sealing the system.

scudo2

danjo-xx wrote: »

Jaysus lads I have to get a new boiler and going from oil to gas (for convenience) reading the posts here about the pros n cons of heat exchangers, and filters etc and the short life of condensing boilers makes me feel like getting electric storage heating in:D

Old system had problems with pitching so I reckon its manky, Power flushing costs about €450 from what I can see, not cheap, would an installer normally do this, or do I need to get a plumber to do it.

Let us know What area are u in and one of the installers will help u.

danjo-xx

scudo2 wrote: »

Let us know What area are u in and one of the installers will help u.

I'm in Waterford city