Any different ideas on what a cursus was used for?

Prometheus

I am aware of the ceremonial walkway idea but does anyone have their own different opinion on them? For some reason I have always been fascinated by them. Recently visited the cursus at Tara and it is such a impressive earthwork.

slowburner

Prometheus wrote: »

I am aware of the ceremonial walkway idea but does anyone have their own different opinion on them? For some reason I have always been fascinated by them. Recently visited the cursus at Tara and it is such a impressive earthwork.

Cursus (cursa?) have to be one of the most enigmatic of all prehistoric monuments.
I don't know of any hard evidence for their function in these islands and wherever there's a knowledge vacuum like this, theories usually abound. But not so much with the cursus.
One theory is that they may have served as corrals for wild deer. Perhaps accompanied by ritual slaughter.
They are intriguing structures and I strongly suspect that there are many, many more than have been identified and listed.
We can't say with any certainty that a cursus in one location had the same function as a cursus in another. Nor can we say that the Newgrange cursus had the same function as the cursus now under the Curragh camp.
I'll link to some interesting material later.

Prometheus

slowburner wrote: »

Cursus (cursa?) have to be one of the most enigmatic of all prehistoric monuments.
I don't know of any hard evidence for their function in these islands and wherever there's a knowledge vacuum like this, theories usually abound. But not so much with the cursus.
One theory is that they may have served as corrals for wild deer. Perhaps accompanied by ritual slaughter.
They are intriguing structures and I strongly suspect that there are many, many more than have been identified and listed.
We can't say with any certainty that a cursus in one location had the same function as a cursus in another. Nor can we say that the Newgrange cursus had the same function as the cursus now under the Curragh camp.
I'll link to some interesting material later.

Thanks for that slowburner, with regards to the likes of a fulacht fiadh I can see where it can be said it was possibly used for different functions such as cooking, tanning, making beer and all the other suggestions, but such a distinct large earthwork as a cursus to my mind must have had a single purpose. What are the chances of it used for one function and then used for a completely different function with little or no alteration?
As you said yourself we just cannot say for certain what they were used for, not yet anyway!

slowburner

Prometheus wrote: »

Thanks for that slowburner, with regards to the likes of a fulacht fiadh I can see where it can be said it was possibly used for different functions such as cooking, tanning, making beer and all the other suggestions, but such a distinct large earthwork as a cursus to my mind must have had a single purpose. What are the chances of it used for one function and then used for a completely different function with little or no alteration?
As you said yourself we just cannot say for certain what they were used for, not yet anyway!

We may never know whether cursus were single or multifunctional. The amount of labour and time involved in the construction of a cursus, I think, implies that they had to be either productive in a practical way or or significant in a ritualistic way.
Then again, there may be different classes of cursus. Some - like Newgrange and the Curragh (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,678015,711480,6,7) - may well have been processional, others may have had a more practical function. See a blog here on the recently confirmed and stunning cursus on Keadeen mountain in Wicklow (W1027-089).
(The discussion referred to in the blog was in this forum!)
There may be a group rethink on cursus previously listed on the SMR. There were roughly half a dozen listed up to today, but now only the Keadeen cursus is listed. There is another similarly situated cursus in Carlow, though on a less dramatic scale and it is as yet unconfirmed.
As far as I can gather, excavations in Britain have revealed lines of tree throws (a hole left by the rootball of an upturned tree) between the walls of cursus. One theory is that these trees were deliberately knocked over and the rootball turned upside down and 'replanted'.
British cursus may differ too in that some consist of three banks.
Yet another theory is that they symbolised rivers, although I'm not sure if that theory holds water (:pac:).

bawn79

Are there any existing remains of the cursus in the curragh camp? Was shocked when I clicked the link to the army barracks on top of it.

slowburner

bawn79 wrote: »

Are there any existing remains of the cursus in the curragh camp?

Not that I know of.

Coles

Is it a coincidence that the Glen of Imaal, the Curragh, and Tara all have military traditions?

There's a possibility that the 'Cursus' was used as a trial for men. A 'rite of passage' even?

But what exactly was going on inside? Some cursuses may indeed have been used as processional routes, but orderly processions would have been difficult, or impossible, at many sites which include various ground-surfaces and types of vegetation cover, or which are cut by flowing rivers. How do you process across a river?

It appears instead that movement along the entire length of some cursuses would have been something of a trial, particularly during the winter months when wet and boggy ground would have added to the discomfort.

So could such sites have served instead as proving grounds for young men, where the main focus was on a race from one end to the other? This may explain the emphasis on the terminals, while an association with artefacts such as arrowheads might suggest that hunting or archery was part of the test. Good ethnographic evidence exists for such rites-of-passage events elsewhere in the world.

Link

slowburner

Very plausible theory and a great link!

Simon.d

The mythology around Slievenamon ties in a bit with this idea, and the Mountain side cursus slowburner linked to in a previous post.

From Wiki

The origin of the mountain's name is explained in Irish mythology. According to the tale, Fionn mac Cumhaill was sought after by many young women, but he said that he could have only one partner. His partner would be whichever woman won a footrace to the top of the mountain. Fionn stood on the cairn atop the mountain and gave a signal to start the race. The winner was Gráinne.

wayoutwest

I see that the cursus at Keadeen mountain, is on a 45 degree slope. Are there any other cursus [in Ireland or the U.K] that are on such sloping ground or are most of them laid out on flattish ground?
Does anyone have a list of the Irish cursus[es]?

slowburner

wayoutwest wrote: »

I see that the cursus at Keadeen mountain, is on a 45 degree slope. Are there any other cursus [in Ireland or the U.K] that are on such sloping ground or are most of them laid out on flattish ground?
Does anyone have a list of the Irish cursus[es]?

The Keadeen cursus might well be on steeper ground than any other.
The list of cursus on the SMR seems to be under revision. There are around five, as far as I recall.
I have a feeling that the number of these under studied monuments is going to grow, especially once it is recognised that they do not need to be straight or have parallel banks.
The link above mentions how ditches were backfilled soon after construction, in some instances. This of course, would make their identification considerably more difficult, especially on upland slopes.

bawn79

There is a cursus on Knockainey as well - its described as two parallel banks on the northern side 9m in width and 0.5m in height separated by a distance of 80m (taken from Archaeology Ireland magazine - Sept 2004)

This is a link to it http://binged.it/166EHOP (i think)


There is an interesting article in Archaeology Ireland from winter 1995 by Tom Conduit on Cursus.

Mentions Newgrange, Tara,
Kiltierney, Co. Fermanagh
Curragh, Co. Kildare "Race of the Black Pig"
Blackstairs Mts, Carlow "Witchs Slide"
Lough Gur - Limerick "Cladh na Leac"
Knockderk, Co. Limerick - possible cursus

Coles

And one at Newgrange too.

might be worth scouring the maps for one at Slieve na Calliagh?

slowburner

bawn79 wrote: »

This is a link to it http://binged.it/166EHOP (i think)

I think it cuts through the two small fields west of the field in your link, or just east of the four ring barrows. That's where the SMR puts it (L1032-139007).

I must say it looks very unconvincing - if indeed this is the right spot.

See here:
http://binged.it/16k60Hd