New allotment - grass is up to chest, where to start ??

snapplejacks

Hi,

My 2 brothers in law and myself have taken on an allotment. it is massive !

at the minute it is all grass and weeds, grass is up to chest height so we all we are planning is to have the ground in a good ready state for spring 2014.

can anyone advise the things to do or not to do so that we can start work ?


our current plan was to hire strimmers, cut down grass, use weedkiller and and get soil turned somehow...but as i say the area is massive, maybe up to 40 metres in length and 20 across, i dont fancy using spade for this!

SCOL

Rent a Strimmer cut it as short as possible, don't use weed killer rent
a rotavator. If you could wait unit there's a night of rain to soften up the ground. you would have it done in no time at all.

Shey,

snapplejacks

SCOL wrote: »

Rent a Strimmer cut it as short as possible, don't use weed killer rent
a rotavator. If you could wait unit there's a night of rain to soften up the ground. you would have it done in no time at all.

Shey,

Thanks Shey,
and it's definitely ok to do a rotavation on a big grassed area ?

iverjohnston

snapplejacks wrote: »

Thanks Shey,
and it's definitely ok to do a rotavation on a big grassed area ?

To be honest, I would strim it down., rake off the grass, give it a week or two to recover and then hit it hard with the Roundup. There is probably a lot of scutch grass and you need to kill this off. When you see it dying, you can rotavate. Or better still, plough it and leave it till next spring.

Andy-Pandy

You could strip it and cover it with thick black plastic that blocks out the light. Come next spring all the grass will be dead and it saves you putting weed killer into ground you will be eating from. It really works.

CJhaughey

I'd strim it or use any kind of ground covering to kill off the plants then make your beds.
As above I wouldn't be in any hurry to eat a load of weedkiller.

tara m

Please don't use weedkiller, especially Round up anywhere even close to where you might grow food. Monsanto's Roundup weedkiller, which contains the chemical glyphosate, is the world's most common agricultural herbicide. It is widely used on Irish farms and may also be used in Coilte's monoculture tree plantations.

Roundup herbicide causes sudden crop death. It is lethal to frogs, and highly toxic to human placental cells, even at one-tenth the recommended dosage. (It is already linked to cancers, neuro-defects and spontaneous abortions.)

Genetically modified "Roundup Ready" crops have been responsible for increased use of the herbicide in recent years. Monsanto's sale of glyphosate has expanded approximately 20% each year through the 1990s, accounting for 67% of the company's total sales as of 200l. More Glyphosate is now being introduced into the environment and the human food chain through cultivation of GMO crops that are tolerant to the herbicide and contain glyphosate residues.

A 2005 study of Roundup presents new evidence that the glyphosate-based herbicide is far more toxic than the active ingredient alone. The study, published in the June 2005 issue of Environmental Health Perspectives, reports glyphosate toxicity to human placental cells within hours of exposure, at levels ten times lower than those found in agricultural use. The researchers also tested glyphosate and Roundup at lower concentrations for effects on sexual hormones, reporting effects at very low levels. This suggests that dilution with other ingredients in Roundup may, in fact, facilitate glyphosate's hormonal impacts.

Roundup is a mixture of glyphosate and other chemicals (commonly referred to as "inerts") designed to increase the herbicide's penetration into the target and its toxic effect. Since inerts are not listed as "active ingredients" the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) does not assess their health or environmental impacts, despite the fact that more than 300 chemicals on EPA's list of pesticide inert ingredients are or were once registered as pesticide active ingredients, and that inert ingredients often account for more than 50% of the pesticide product by volume.

snapplejacks

ok safest thing to do then (as we all intend eating these vegetables) -
get it all strimmed down and raked off
instead of weedkilling, cover the whole area in black plastic sheeting, this is going to be very expensive (dont like that)
OR should we just wait now until next spring and attack it then, starting into ploughing or rotavation right away after the grass and weeds are all cut back ?

GreeBo

If I was going to use roundup I think Id use it after rotovating.

You dont want to kill everything thats on top and then rotovate and bring a whole new batch of weeds/grasses to the surface.


Strim it all down and then leave the fallen grass there. No point in raking it up if you dont need the land for now; let it rot back into the ground.

+1 on covering it until you are ready to start working it, but if you are aiming for spring then you have loads of time to let the ground soften. Rotovating now wouldnt be too enjoyable.


/edit

Also, if its 20m x 40m then I wouldnt bother trying to work all of it in one go. Clear out a section and see how you go with that.
800m2 is a lot of veggies...

Andy-Pandy

snapplejacks wrote: »

ok safest thing to do then (as we all intend eating these vegetables) -
get it all strimmed down and raked off
instead of weedkilling, cover the whole area in black plastic sheeting, this is going to be very expensive (dont like that)
OR should we just wait now until next spring and attack it then, starting into ploughing or rotavation right away after the grass and weeds are all cut back ?

If it was me I'd go down the route of covering it. Even if you rota vale it you will still have a problem with grass growing up. The tarp route is the best. Check out some of the building suppliers to see what they have to use. I've done a large area before for less than a 100, it's pricey but you will get the best results in the long term.

iverjohnston

OK, everyone to their own, but covering with black plastic will not kill off scutch grass or docks or nettles. The root system of scutch grass is a nightmare when it gets into veg. beds etc. If you rotavate the roots, you are only propagating the blasted thing. While I am no fan of giant corporations, Round-up is a Godsend in some situations. For those who have an anti Monsanto crusade going on, why not use Gallup, and keep your conscience clear? Buying a 120 foot x 60 foot silage pit cover (about €90) is hardly any more environmentally friendly either, by the time the oil is extracted and processed into plastic.

"may also be used in Coilte's monoculture tree plantations" Not sure if snapplejack is planning on eating a young Douglas Fir.

Genetically modified seed is not available in Ireland, especially to the gardener, as it is almost all soya beans and corn (maize), and only available from Monsanto sources.

On the subject of food safety, (I am a farmer) it think that the biggest danger to our general health is fluoride in water. Have you ever changed the water in your child's jar of Tadpoles, using tap water without thinking? I did last year, and within 90 seconds they were all dead.

Have fun in your new allotment, and what kind of spuds are you planning to grow?

yellowlabrador

I would strim it and then rotivate. Next a green manure crop that will be re rotivated in the Autumnm. . Priority would be soft fruits and trees.Secure your bounderies. Get the stakes and wiring done , divide the plot into beds and manure. Don't forget that potatoes are great at clearing the land and also plan a shed and polytunnel/greenhouse. You need somewhere to sit and contemplate and enjoy:D:D:D:D:D.

Birtles

Use a weed killer to spray all the grass, leave a few weeks and if the put a match to the whole lot. only way to clean off all the grass and weeds. you will also have the advantage of torching weed seeds etc. you can then rotovate it. better still if you can get a plough in, plough it up and leave the sod to rot for as log as possible. keep any weeds that may appear in check by whatever means you prefer.

iverjohnston

yellowlabrador wrote: »

I would strim it and then rotivate. Next a green manure crop that will be re rotivated in the Autumnm. . Priority would be soft fruits and trees.Secure your bounderies. Get the stakes and wiring done , divide the plot into beds and manure. Don't forget that potatoes are great at clearing the land and also plan a shed and polytunnel/greenhouse. You need somewhere to sit and contemplate and enjoy:D:D:D:D:D.

All great points, Yellowlabrador. Fruit trees are massively under planted in this country. But you will need to be sure of the long term use of the land. As a matter if interest, what temp. was recorded in Polytunnels in the past few weeks? Good farmyard manure harder to source these years, as so much is stored and spread as slurry, or is just rotted silage without the manure factor.

kylith

snapplejacks wrote: »

ok safest thing to do then (as we all intend eating these vegetables) -
get it all strimmed down and raked off
instead of weedkilling, cover the whole area in black plastic sheeting, this is going to be very expensive (dont like that)
OR should we just wait now until next spring and attack it then, starting into ploughing or rotavation right away after the grass and weeds are all cut back ?

Anything that blocks the light getting to it will do the job; old carpet, cardboard, stuff like that. I've also heard of 'solarising'; covering the soil with clear plastic to allow the sun (if it comes back) to heat the soil beyond the threshold of any plants or seeds.

snapplejacks

thanks very much for all this useful information, it now gives me something to debate now with the other 2 guys and we can hopefully see some kind of a start.

oh, and someone asked what kind of potatoes we might go for ?
havent the foggiest, can you recommend any ?

we are all really looking forward to this hobbie /past-time and now realise there will be a lot of effort involved but we are well fit for it, plus it should have its rewards being able to get sitting down sometimes with a cup of tea and enjoy it too, so we cant wait for spring 2014. but we want to get the spadework started soon to improve the whole look of it a bit for a start just and divide out what we can and give it some shape.

also, i like the idea of a few fruit trees, a fav of mine might be a plum tree as my grandad used to have one and those plums were delicious !!

so glad i came on here

Markcheese

As you can see everyone has a different plan, great that your starting now for 2014,
Think I'd make a plan of what veggies I want to grow where, lay paths,shed compost heap ect , then strim everything as low you can(or strim then mow ) leave the grass down and cover the lot in plastic/ deep straw / loads of newspaper /cardboard ect ...
It's called sheet composting.... You'll end up with softer ground that'll be easier to till, most of the weeds/grasses will be gone, worms will have a ball ,
fertility will be way up...,
You can even plant spuds through black plastic next spring (so the plastic you use on one area now, gets moved to a different patch in spring and plant spuds through it ,(need slug pellets though),
Anyhow happy strimming

iverjohnston

Hard to beat Kerrs Pinks if you like floury potatoes. Roosters also nice, in my opinion. Hate waxy spuds, which is why you see their seed sold as "salad" potatoes! A ridge of Queens is nice for those who like white fleshed spuds. I find the seed catalogues confuse me with choice! If you can get a bit of farmyard manure for them, it would be good, and buy a 50kg bag of 7-6-17 fertilizer, and you will have enough to plant the entire plot! If growing spuds, you will need a knapsack sprayer for the blight spraying. If you are feeling flush, get 2, one for weed killer only, and the other for spraying the spuds.

I have used old silage cover plastic very successfully for growing onions. weight down the edges all round and then stab the plastic with a knife and stick in the onion sett, it stops 90% of all the weeds strangling your onions. I find clevers and bindweed the worst, pulling them shreds the little onion shoots.

joseph brand

Never throw away any plant material, as it can be used for compost.

Since you have such a large space, plant some comfrey. The bees absolutely love it, and it produces massive leaves which can be deposited around your veg and fruit trees, or used to make a 'tea' (fertiliser).

Btw, stinging nettles are also great for compost and liquid fertiliser.

Also, remember that your best friend in your allotment is the humble worm. I've read that worm castings (poo) is the best fertiliser/ source of nutrients for any plants. These guys will devour any rotting material you have and turn it into black gold.

Birtles

iverjohnston wrote: »

All great points, Yellowlabrador. Fruit trees are massively under planted in this country. But you will need to be sure of the long term use of the land. As a matter if interest, what temp. was recorded in Polytunnels in the past few weeks? Good farmyard manure harder to source these years, as so much is stored and spread as slurry, or is just rotted silage without the manure factor.

Hi Iverjohnston, recorded 47.6 c degrees in mine about 2 weeks ago. forgot to open the door in the morning! nice little sauna for myself!
ps didn't seem to bother any of the plants in there