How can you tell if another man is gay?

LegacyUser

I am a gay man who is 'in the closet'. None of my family/friends know and I have only really started exploring this side of me a couple of years ago.

I recently met another man of my own age in a pub. We got into each other's company, had a few drinks, good craic etc. together. Since then we have been chatting on Facebook.

Sexuality hasn't been mentioned but I'm convinced this man is the same as me - gay and not out. I'm attracted to him but don't want to make a move in case I'm wrong. Is there any way of telling if he is gay? Any advice anyone can give me on how to approach this?

SookieS

What are the things that make you think he's gay Rad536? You could always bring it up without actually making a move. Or try some subtle flirting and see how he responds?

CdeC

Sometimes lads are looking to make new friends,
My advice is treat it as such, become good mates and just have a laugh together,don't think of it as a romantic thing yet. After some trust has been built up his sexuality will become clear.

floggg

Rad563 wrote: »

I am a gay man who is 'in the closet'. None of my family/friends know and I have only really started exploring this side of me a couple of years ago.

I recently met another man of my own age in a pub. We got into each other's company, had a few drinks, good craic etc. together. Since then we have been chatting on Facebook.

Sexuality hasn't been mentioned but I'm convinced this man is the same as me - gay and not out. I'm attracted to him but don't want to make a move in case I'm wrong. Is there any way of telling if he is gay? Any advice anyone can give me on how to approach this?

How exactly did you meet him? Context could be relevant.

For the younger generation at least, striking up a friendship with somebody you happened to get talking to in the pub would be a strange I would have thought - at least a friendship which lasted any more than just one night.

Or maybe that's just me and my friends.

I don't know if you can read anything into it though.

I think unfortunately as long as you are in the closet, there will always be a degree of risk in making a move on somebody or getting with them if being "outed" is your main concern.

Sometimes it's worth it to take the risk.

I will say that if you don't know him all that long, and assuming he's not in your immediate circle of friends, then if you did make a move there's a lesser risk of it back firing on you.

Worst comes to worst, you don't speak to him again (unless you live someplace small where everybody knows everybody).

mackD

Tread very carefully. I made a mistake like this before when i was still in the closet. I started to become really friendly with this guy I used to see out at my local at the weekend.
As our friendship grew, I made a drunken pass at him one night but he thought I was joking and just laughed it off.
We're still friends though:)

Manco

Ask them.

martin60

It might be useful to, casually and discreetly, canvas his opinion on his attitude to gay/lesbian/transgender matters or whatever you are comfortable with discussing. His attitude, while not an indicator of his sexuality might give you some greater insight. We can never tell for sure if someone is gay as many people become expert (as you know yourself) at hiding their true selves. Sometimes a person may have habits or idiosyncrasies that indicate that they might be gay or lesbian - on the other hand I have known some (for want of a better word) 'camp' guys who were heterosexual.

Please dont lose sight of the fact that he is your friend and he will be your friend irrespective of your sexuality. Hope everything works out for you!

neuvoculchie

martin60 wrote: »

Sometimes a person may have habits or idiosyncrasies that indicate that they might be gay or lesbian - on the other hand I have known some (for want of a better word) 'camp' guys who were heterosexual.

Dr. Shrike

I wrote about this problem on QID a few years ago.

Most of the guys reading this thread probably have a good idea of when a man is “definitely” gay. Even straight people can do definitely gay and often possibly gay.
As it happens, I was talking with someone yesterday about how to figure it out when a guy isn’t clearly gay at all. You could spend ages gauging the tone of their voice or observing the angles between their hands and wrists, but in a way that’s just bollocks really.

I think the most accurate form of gaydar is done just by reading the expression in somebody’s eyes. Unfortunately, they’re super obvious expressions when described, it’s really all about getting a feel for them through experience. Might take quite a while and what if you're no good at reading people's faces?

But anyway, off the top of my head these are things to keep an eye out for.

The I know you look: Sometimes when a gay guy sees you for the first time, it'll seem from their facial expression that they're know you from somewhere else. They recognise there's something different about you and their expression is a (probably subconscious) hello to a fellow homo.

Looking twice when he first sees you: If a guy looks at you once, then immediately looks at you a second time, right in the eyes, he may well fancy you. And especially if he looks away in embarrassment the second time. I can't think of any positive reason why a straight guy would make the effort to look twice at another man. Maybe if there was something unusual about you or they were going to ask for money, start a fight et cetera. But you'll know soon enough if that's the case :-P

The I want look: Sometimes it's just as simple as seeing the want in their eyes. Takes practise. Best thing to do is get a sense of what that look is like in gay bars, then use it in the wild.

Also worth looking out for is the well isn't this a nice surprise face - when someone meets you for the first time and their face totally lights up with attraction. I have a feeling this facial expression might only be used when people are comfortable with their sexual surroundings. Meaning that you're more likely to see it in straight women, or men you already know are gay. Not very useful then.

Now what you might do with slightly more accurate gaydar is another thing entirely. I'd like to think I'd have been great at cruising, but I just don't like talking to strangers. And if you're not out in your workplace or college or whatever, how can you ever be 100% sure about making a move without outing yourself? There is something to be said for “gay spaces”, if people are still unwilling to come out as a matter of course.

Don't know how any of this might apply to lesbians (poor gay girls). Also I used the word gay when I meant to say men who are attracted to men. It was just quicker to write.

martin60

Perhaps when a poster uses the term Dr in his name, one might be led to believe that what he says has a certain gravitas. One might also be led to believe that what is written has some basis in scientific study and fact. All we have here is opinion: unfortunately the opinion - to use the 'Drs' own phraseology is mostly 'bollocks'. On the other hand, maybe the Dr holds a degree in psychology. This is highly unlikely: as one reads through the post one becomes aware of phrases such as 'I think', 'I have a feeling', or 'off the top of my head'. Anyone familiar with scientific journals/papers will know that opinions are always evidence-based and supported by scientific research.

Of course everyone is entitled to express their opinion. However, in this instance the post reads like an extract from a journal on the psychology of homosexuality. It does little to give support or comfort to people who may be worried about the discovery of their sexual orientation. So please, if any of you are confused or struggling to come to terms with your sexuality please do not be led by such pseudo-scientific garbage. If you are troubled or concerned talk to a friend, a gay support group or any mental health organisation. Those who claim to be experts in their ability to determine another persons sexual orientation are delusional.

One has as much of a chance of being able to determine another persons religion or their choice of underwear. Forget I mentioned that as the Dr might respond with another mumbo-jumbo piece on his uncanny ability to determine if a guy is a thong-wearing member of the Church of Scientology...just by looking at him!!

Dr. Shrike

I feel sorry for you if you don't realise that Dr. Shrike is a tongue in cheek name. In fact, someone else took my Queerid username Shrike.

Also, your slice of TL;DR is largely meaningless. You could have said what you needed to say in one paragraph. Perhaps I threatened your intelligence, or personal view of the world...

I think if people try to subtly put my suggestions into practise they might be pleasantly surprised. The essential question is whether you can you tell what others are thinking and feeling via their facial expressions? Western civilisations seems to say f**k yes. But as the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Anyway, this is exactly why I never joined Boards.ie LGBT :rolleyes:

Annasopra

Dr. Shrike wrote: »

I feel sorry for you if you don't realise that Dr. Shrike is a tongue in cheek name. In fact, someone else took my Queerid username Shrike.

Also, your slice of TL;DR is largely meaningless. You could have said what you needed to say in one paragraph. Perhaps I threatened your intelligence, or personal view of the world...

I think if people try to subtly put my suggestions into practise they might be pleasantly surprised. The essential question is whether you can you tell what others are thinking and feeling via their facial expressions? Western civilisations seems to say f**k yes. But as the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Anyway, this is exactly why I never joined Boards.ie LGBT :rolleyes:

Don't worry about it too much - he closed his account

Dr. Shrike

Erm, wtf?

I was thinking of changing my username in the unlikely event of confusion.

If he had the courage of his convictions to continue his line of argument, I'd have posted the following anecdotes.

(1) Years ago, in college, a group of my classmates were eating with this new guy I'd never seen before. I immediately got a ping on my gaydar from the way he initially made eye contact. In later interactions with him I got no sense he was gay at all, so I thought I had made a mistake. Then months later he was chatting me up while drunk. He's now an active participant in the Irish gay community...

(2) I knew this guy for years who I always assumed was straight. Never got any sign of him being gay at all. Now he's possibly gayer than I am...

(3) There's this other guy I used to know who people always assume is gay due to his unusual tone of voice. Gay people are totally shocked to discover he's straight.

(4) Recently I went to a Dublin public amenity that's popular with tourists and families. When checking out the attractive male retail staff, I kept getting the "please eff off" look from them, which I usually get when I check out a gay guy who's totally not interested in me. It seemed extremely unlikely that they were all gay/bi. The only likely thing I could imagine was that they're probably straight, but are always getting checked out by gay tourists and are totally sick of it.

So yeah, it is easy enough to get the wrong impression from men. That's not to say that you can't get clues that you can build a more accurate impression from. Last year I realised a guy might be gay just from the extremely subtle angle of his wrists and neck! I wasn't wrong in that case, but I also didn't immediately jump on him either.

Of course, if you're naturally bad at reading non-verbal cues or the tone of people's voices, then all this advice is useless to you.

As I also suggested in my original post, it's kind of dumb to have your sex/love life entirely predicated on weird eye contact and posture. Better if everyone was out and unafraid of laying their cards on the table when they meet a stranger they like.

Rick_

If anyone finds out a way of accurately determining someone's sexuality, please let me know. Cheers.

Dr. Shrike

Paddy C wrote: »

If anyone finds out a way of accurately determining someone's sexuality, please let me know. Cheers.

In a way, what's the difference between you saying that and a straight person saying "how do I know if someone fancies me?". The only effective difference is the potential homophobic response, since if a gay guy doesn't fancy you then they might as well be straight, pretty much.

In a lot of cases, I think it's not the risk of being homophobically abused that makes people scared of trying to suss out another person's sexuality, but the fear of being seen as a pitiful or predatory gay. It isn't a nice feeling, I know, but it does sting a lot less than a punch in the face.

Also, what do straight people do if they're not good with rejection?

floggg

Dr. Shrike wrote: »

In a way, what's the difference between you saying that and a straight person saying "how do I know if someone fancies me?". The only effective difference is the potential homophobic response, since if a gay guy doesn't fancy you then they might as well be straight, pretty much.

In a lot of cases, I think it's not the risk of being homophobically abused that makes people scared of trying to suss out another person's sexuality, but the fear of being seen as a pitiful or predatory gay. It isn't a nice feeling, I know, but it does sting a lot less than a punch in the face.

Also, what do straight people do if they're not good with rejection?

The fear of rejection is still a very big deterrent for a late of gays.

Dr. Shrike

Very true. Though it might be worth figuring out the extent your fear of rejection might be the same as straight people experience. That way you can't blame being gay for not living your life.

And for what it's worth, I hate coming out to people and social rejection and awkward situations with straight guys.

floggg

Dr. Shrike wrote: »

Very true. Though it might be worth figuring out the extent your fear of rejection might be the same as straight people experience. That way you can't blame being gay for not living your life.

And for what it's worth, I hate coming out to people and social rejection and awkward situations with straight guys.

I wasn't talking about myself.

Dr. Shrike

Yes, I was using a generalised you, rather than a specific one. Though I might not have used the required linguistic hints to show I was doing that

In other news, I was reminded of the video for Disclosure's Latch yesterday. Some people were disappointed there was no man on man action in the video, but others pointed out that the two blond men share a "significant moment". That's the sort of kind of eye contact I'm always going on about. Though I'm not sure if the actors really sell the intensity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ASUImTedo

LegacyUser

floggg wrote: »

How exactly did you meet him? Context could be relevant.

For the younger generation at least, striking up a friendship with somebody you happened to get talking to in the pub would be a strange I would have thought - at least a friendship which lasted any more than just one night.

Or maybe that's just me and my friends.

I don't know if you can read anything into it though.

I think unfortunately as long as you are in the closet, there will always be a degree of risk in making a move on somebody or getting with them if being "outed" is your main concern.

Sometimes it's worth it to take the risk.

I will say that if you don't know him all that long, and assuming he's not in your immediate circle of friends, then if you did make a move there's a lesser risk of it back firing on you.

Worst comes to worst, you don't speak to him again (unless you live someplace small where everybody knows everybody).

Met him randomly in a pub. Was on my way home and went in for a beer - ended up spending a night in his company.

Have been chatting daily on facebook since. Planning on meeting for another night soon - he keeps suggesting it.

Will try some subtle flirting. Any gay man I met before was discreetly through the Internet.

I don't know what it is exactly but I'm convinced he is gay.

floggg

Rad563 wrote: »

Met him randomly in a pub. Was on my way home and went in for a beer - ended up spending a night in his company.

Have been chatting daily on facebook since. Planning on meeting for another night soon - he keeps suggesting it.

Will try some subtle flirting. Any gay man I met before was discreetly through the Internet.

I don't know what it is exactly but I'm convinced he is gay.

Hmmm. Obviously there's not much for me to go on either way but it wouldn't surprise me if he was from what you say.

It just doesn't really seem like something that happens all that much - at least to my circle of friends.

He clearly has some sort of interest in you if he wants to meet again.

I say go for it - what's the worst that can happen. At least meet for a drink and see how you get on.

You don't have to make a move on him or anything but play things by ear. It looks like he's willing to try and make things happen to some extent by asking you out for a drink so if you are open enough he might make a move himself.

Of course he could just be looking for a friend but if you're not in you can't win!

Dr. Shrike

He sounds like he's definitely pursuing you. But maybe he just thinks your sound and is pursuing a friendship?

On the other hand, you assume you're totally in the closet, but he could have realised you were gay the moment he saw you.

For now, it would be probably best if you don't make any obvious moves on him, at least till you know him better.

Instead, give him the opportunity to make moves on you. Pretend to be a bit more drunk than you actually are, have drunken late night heart-to-hearts, make sure you sit on the same couch as him and look for excuses to take him into your bedroom...:cool:

LegacyUser

An update:

Met this guy again at weekend. Had a great night out with lots of alcohol consumed ( too much to be honest) Ended up telling him how I felt, he responded the same. Although very shocked and embaressed. Finished the night in bed.

After the act and during this week, things haven't been good. Body language wasn't good when I left that night. I sent a text the day after and got a cold, short response one ay later. No communication on Facebook either.

Going to drop him a line later in the week but don't expect a good response.

Davaeo09

Rad563 wrote: »

An update:

Met this guy again at weekend. Had a great night out with lots of alcohol consumed ( too much to be honest) Ended up telling him how I felt, he responded the same. Although very shocked and embaressed. Finished the night in bed.

After the act and during this week, things haven't been good. Body language wasn't good when I left that night. I sent a text the day after and got a cold, short response one ay later. No communication on Facebook either.

Going to drop him a line later in the week but don't expect a good response.

Mind me asking how you two came in contact?
Don't take it personally, people can some times be just after "fun" and some of these people can't handle the idea of perhaps wanting more with some one.

OR it could be some thing completely different. Just relax and slow down, some one will come along

Dr. Shrike

Hrm. That's a shame.

Pretty much a reiteration of what Daveo09 said.

Yeah, telling him that you really enjoyed his company and that you're willing to take things more slowly is probably a sensible way forward.

At the same time, it's possible that what happened with him is his regular pattern of behaviour. That he meets men he thinks might be gay, pursues them enthusiastically, then withdraws to the deepest parts of his closet when he gets sexual release. So don't feel too bad if it doesn't work out. Though I wouldn't immediately accuse him of this, because I wouldn't be surprised if he falsely admitted to doing that just to avoid dealing with his feelings for you. It's so needlessly complicated sometimes, but what can you do.

Hope things work out.

floggg

It could well be a case of guilt getting the better of him once he has came. It happens with a lot of guys in the closet and who are trying to fight their sexuality.

Their bodies know what they want, but once the body has been satisfied the mind starts playing tricks and all the guilt and shame they've been thought to have rake over.

Maybe he's just not ready to deal with these issues yet, no matter how much he liked you.

I wouldn't say he just wanted some quick fun and then lost interest, because he seems to have put a fair amount of effort into "pursuing" you.

I'd give him a few days and see if he texts you or anything. I wouldn't take it too personally to be honest - I doubt it is anything you did but just him trying to get his head around everything.

Maybe let him know that no matter what else you'd still like to be friends and you'd even just enjoy having somebody in the same boat to talk to (subtly letting him know you have as much to lose as him and thus won't blab to anybody).

LegacyUser

I think Floggg is 100% correct in summarising where we are now.

I have had no contact with him in days and don't see him getting in touch in the future.

It's unfortunate as I think we could have been good friends and had some fun together. Will try not to get too down about it but I am disappointed.

Dane29

Know how you feel man, was there before. What flogg is saying is very true. I'm in closet and feel different after. Discretion is very important to him i reckon so assure this and keep it as friends for now is my advice. Good luck!

floggg

Rad563 wrote: »

I think Floggg is 100% correct in summarising where we are now.

I have had no contact with him in days and don't see him getting in touch in the future.

It's unfortunate as I think we could have been good friends and had some fun together. Will try not to get too down about it but I am disappointed.

If you thought you had potential just as friends, then maybe give it a week or two and send him a text or Facebook message.

Tell him that you'd just like to be friends and if he wants a pint let you know. Give it a while for the sense of shame to wear off a bit.

computer44

Gee that's a hard one. unless you defo know his gay I would play my cards close to my heart.

Have you joined a gay club, sometimes its really hard to come out and I can understand that issue.

Dublin is a really great place to come out and the clubs understand privacy issues.

But walk away from him, his not ready and never probably will be,

There's lots of people that will love you better. Respect yourself.

I am a gay female and I did come out but only to the people I loved. And they respected me for that.

I could not tell anymore lies about my sexualit