Job Bridge - From Employers point of view

2Shae

I started a new company in Sept last year. IT Support & Installation is the area of business.
I have recently gone through the process of looking for someone to train through the Job Bridge Scheme.
The role I put up allowed the Candidate to work with any of the following area(s) - ( whichever the Candidate was interested in )

Vmware & Hyper V virtual servers,
Server 2008 & 2012 Servers (usually running inside a virtual server),
Linux Servers (CentOS, Ubuntu, FreeBSD),
VOIP Phone Systems (Asterisk),
Sonicwall Firewalls,
Cisco Switches,
Wifi Solutions – Ubiquiti & Cisco,
Desktop & User Support,
Mobile Device Support – Tablets, Mobiles etc. (IOS, Android, Blackberry),
Website Setup & Support. ( Wordpress, Joomla etc )
Cloud Services – Supply & Support – Email, Accounting software, & more.

I submitted the role information and waited for the CV's to flood in.
Some days I got one or two cv's in.

After a month I had to pick my final choices, I met and spoke with most of the candidates.
-Most of the candidates did not really have any interest in I.T. at all.
-Most showed up for interview in plain clothes. No effort in dressing well.
-Most had been through at least 5 or 6 FAS courses in I.T.
-Most had been through work experience through the courses.
-Only one candidate was able to answer the question of what would you do to remove a virus from a pc.

Obviously I went with the one candidate that was able to answer the question of how to remove a virus from a pc.
What really amazes me is how many people applied that had no actual interest in the area. Dont visit tech websites etc.

One of the things I really dont like about the current state of dole system is people are told to send their CV's (most not very well done or spell checked) to everyone for any type of job. That just does not work. You HAVE to tailor your CV and Cover letter for every company.


Sorry for the rant. Just thought I would put this here.

shruikan2553

I'm only in college but even from seeing people around me there is this trend of "do IT or something in computers, you'll get a job from it"
Plenty of people have no idea why they are there and struggle with it while there are others who are trying to get work placements relating to the degree for the second year summer holidays so they can get more experience.

ImDave

As the above poster alludes to, a huge amount of people are entering IT training courses just because FAS, government agencies or educational institutions are boasting the benefits of the IT sector for employment prospects. You see it even on Boards a lot, people who have absolutely no previous experience or interest in IT on courses for CCNA, CompTIA etc.

I realise that re-skilling and re-training is a very plausible ideology for many people, but there is an attitude amongst state organisations that it doesn't matter what you have done previously, labouring/construction to architecture or sales - go get as many IT certs as you can and you'll have no problem getting a job.

It's crazy really. If you want to go into IT, just like any profession, you have to have a passion and an interest for it. Otherwise, all the certs and courses in the world won't matter a damn as your lack of interest will shine through at interview.

sligoface

Maybe because the people who do have the skills, ambition and attitude required to be good, productive employees in that field got those skills through hard work and studying and feel that they deserve a proper paycheck if they are working full time. You know the saying if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, well you won't be paying them at all. Even if they are brilliant at IT and help make your company a success they won't get a penny from you will they? Unpaid laborers aka slaves do tend to be a less than inspired bunch, dunno why you are so shocked by that.

IS_a_Class

to be fair your areas are hardly very exciting - just basic support roles with no real future. Did you mention the intern once having leveraged their new experience would command a salary of around 19 grand only and find it very very difficult to get out of support?


if most candidates had been through at least 5 or 6 FAS courses in I.T., I would not be complaining. Most of these courses are pretty good. Sounds like you were getting some highly qualified individuals for these job specs.

And tech websites? really? who spends their spare time reading tech blogs unless they are researching a particular problem tbh?

April O Neill

sligoface wrote: »

Maybe because the people who do have the skills, ambition and attitude required to be good, productive employees in that field got those skills through hard work and studying and feel that they deserve a proper paycheck if they are working full time. You know the saying if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, well you won't be paying them at all. Even if they are brilliant at IT and help make your company a success they won't get a penny from you will they? Unpaid laborers aka slaves do tend to be a less than inspired bunch, dunno why you are so shocked by that.

This.

Ray Palmer

The general hatred of Jobs Bridge comes through. Why people choose to attack the OP on his post for using a system that helps the employer and employee.

There are people constantly saying they can't get into IT even though they have IT degrees. This employer has just shown that people who claim "they are desperate" aren't actually looking.


Attacking the role is pointless, it is a very good role to get experience and a work ethic. Most first time workers are quite clueless and may not understand management structures or have ability to work on their own.

I would say the 5-6 Fas courses may actually be fewer as they often include more than one examinations. Some courses are also very short

TT09

The sooner slave-bridge is abolished the better, handing someone €50 a week for 39 hours work is disgraceful, employers should have to pay the balance so people get at least minimum wage.

IS_a_Class

I myself have no hatred of Jobbridge though nor am I a Jobbridge apologist and 5 mao poster like yourself Mr Palmer.

Obviously there is no excuse for turning up for an interview in plain clothes. However, Jobbridge employers should recognise they are also being interviewed at the same time by the interviewee. What does this particular company offer an applicant? It's a start-up first off, that's a big turn-off for many reasons, most importantly, a big name company looks better on the CV. Secondly, the company is offering training in only one area rather than many. Each of these areas are not that complicated to master, and one certainly wouldn't take nine months to master('master' in the context of being capable of completing everyday tasks on the job) if the applicant has some prior training in this area. Thus the applicant feels that they might not learn many new skills in the next nine months.Thirdly, this kind of support job may have been an attractive way to break into IT when the economy was booming, but now it just seems like a dead-end and an effective way to pigeonhole yourself into making under 30000 for the rest of your IT career. The nine months could be better spent contributing to open source projects in the eyes of many applicants.

The OP comes across as someone who set up a start-up on the premise that they would have access to a large pool of skilled workers at zero cost to the start-up. Clearly the OP does not have a viable business model(at least would not have, in a normally operating labour market) and seeks to use free labour to overcome the inadequacies of his/her business model. Thus I would suggest the OP review their business model instead of criticising hard-working jobseekers who have not only 1 IT cert, but 5 or 6! In fact, I don't know how anyone could be accused of having no interest in IT when they have 5 or 6 IT certs.

kennryyr

TT09 wrote: »

The sooner slave-bridge is abolished the better, handing someone €50 a week for 39 hours work is disgraceful, employers should have to pay the balance so people get at least minimum wage.

Slave-bridge... oh you guys!:rolleyes:

It's not the company handing them the €50 it's the government. The scheme was set up to help people find employment in the long term. I know some employers do take advantage of it (a small minority I'm sure), but the OP seems like a nice guy and was giving the candidate the option of choosing what field they wanted experience in.

I don't see the harm?

What I find disgraceful is that people sit on their holes all day everyday while the government forks out €188 a week, and these low lives don't even look for / want a job.

Then something like JobBridge comes along and they start attacking it saying 'oh it's a 39 hour job and we don't get paid for it.'

Please, you're lucky to be even given the opportunity to get off your ar*e and contribute to society

Rod Serling

kennryyr wrote: »

Then something like JobBridge comes along and they start attacking it saying 'oh it's a 39 hour job and we don't get paid for it.'

Please, you're lucky to be even given the opportunity to get off your ar*e and contribute to society

Has your head been stuck in the sand the last year or so or are you just totally oblivious to the fact that people aren't just complaining about Job Bridge because it's low pay for long hours?

http://www.scambridge.ie/
http://jobbridgetonowhere.tumblr.com/

There's plenty of threads on boards and it's not just people on the dole who have a problem with or can see the amount of flaws in Job Bridge.

Mrs OBumble

IS_a_Class wrote: »

...nor am I a Jobbridge apologist and 5 mao poster

Please don't accuse people of being hired by a government regime to post messages unless you have some evidence that this is what's happening - and if you do have such evidence, please use report-post.

I'm a fan of Jobridge myself - but where it actually gives people a start in a career which they have training but no experience for - effectively giving them a way to compete against people who do have experience, which they otherwise couldn't do. I'm not convinced that is what the OP is doing here - but either way, name-calling is not on.




(Yes, I did have to google 5 mao .... for anyone who's interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

Esoteric_

kennryyr wrote: »

Slave-bridge... oh you guys!:rolleyes:


What I find disgraceful is that people sit on their holes all day everyday while the government forks out €188 a week, and these low lives don't even look for / want a job.

Then something like JobBridge comes along and they start attacking it saying 'oh it's a 39 hour job and we don't get paid for it.'

Please, you're lucky to be even given the opportunity to get off your ar*e and contribute to society

Funnily enough, it tends to be people desperate for work who take Job Bridge offers, rather than people 'sitting on their holes all day,' because you actually have to get up and APPLY for it.

Nobody is 'lucky' to work a full time job for less than five euro an hour. That's not luck, that's disgraceful. In certain situations, such as the person having no experience, then yeah, it can be good, because giving people work experience is great, as nobody will hire people nowadays without experience. But it tends to be people who know what it's like to work, like being productive, and actually wanting a job who go for it, so for those people, I think it's grossly unfair that they are so under paid for their work.

I'm not unemployed, thankfully, but when I was, I was sent letters about Job Bridge positions, every single one of which I ignored, because they were for 'jobs' of no benefit, use or interest to me, which wouldn't give me any relevant experience in any field I'd be interested or qualified in.

Job Bridge, if policed correctly, could be fantastic. As it is currently, it's a joke.

Nate--IRL--

Fair play OP, you seem like one of the few employers not taking the piss with Job Bridge, and using it as intended.

The company I work for is also receiving CVs for a fairly similar role for JobBridge, to fill the one I've just finished. I've seen just what you have, with regard to CVs and the Interviewees turning up in jeans and a T-Shirt. I have to say it doesn't compute with me at all. There is a job here at the end for them if they show the initiative, but it's like they are blowing their chance before they even start.

I've treated it like a Job from the very start, Suit to the interview, tailored CV, etc. and have a job in return.

The only way any of this can be a success is if both sides take it seriously. Most of the advertised Job bridge jobs are a joke, and from what I've seen most candidates aren't very serious about it.

Persevere OP It can work, you just might have a bit of searching to do.

Nate

2Shae

Lots of replies. Bit of catching up to do. Where do I start.

To @shruikan2553 and @ImDave - I do agree with you on this. I asked some of the people who sent in their CV's why they did so many IT FAS Courses, They admitted it was because they were TOLD to do them if they wanted to continue getting dole.

To @sligoface - That is the last thing I plan on doing. As you can see I cover a lot of different areas in I.T. I have a huge passion for technology and hoped I could help find someone who actually needed experience get it. I remember how difficult it was to get myself into the industry in the first place.

To @TT09 I also agree the scheme is not perfect, However its the best we have right now. In other countries (eg america) you are required to do internships with no pay at all by most companies and you have pretty much no rights or no time limits on the internships. I personally think Job Bridge is better than that!

To @IS_a_Class As I said in my post that the applicants could pick any area(S) they wanted to try. Secondly I did not start up my company to take on free labour and charge for it. I want to grow my company. Training someone in to take over an area or two so I can focus on sales and growing the business means I can actually afford to employee the person at the end of the job bridge. - As for the whole people having certs you should re-read the post and some of the others on here.

To @Rod Serling I agree with you. Its not perfect. But its still better than the non regulated Internship system in the US!

To @Mrs OBumble - Thanks Nice to see someone sees it for what it is. The scheme is certainly not perfect but is working to some degree. For example. If I had put up a job advert for a simular role. None of the candidates that contacted me would have even received an interview. However as this job bridge I have 6 or 9 months to train someone from start to finish what they need to know and what I wish i had known previously.

To @Nate--IRL-- Im glad to hear Job Bridge worked for you! Its a shame employeers and candidates dont use it as well as they could. First appearances really matter. If I was given this opportunity when I was 18 I would have jumped at it. Instead I was stuck with really crappy jobs in the bar industry etc. I managed to work my way into fixing IT problems for bars. Then worked for a till company for awhile. Then an IT company. If I could have skipped the three previous jobs for a few months of an Internship to straight into the IT industry I would have.



My point comes down to this. In the end I took on someone through job bridge that does not have anywhere near the skill level he would need currently to be even interviewed for a role in the area. In the next few months it is now up to him to show an interest, find out what area's he likes the most and learn as much as he can about them.
Some people say here that a lot of this can be learnt online etc. True. But not everyone is self thought. Some people do need to get hands on and be shown things. Job Bridge allows people to have access to equipment, tools & experience that they would not have.

My big issue was this - Show a damn interest in an area and you will be ahead of the pack

Anyways. Time for some ZZZ's

One_More_Mile

2Shae wrote: »

After a month I had to pick my final choices, I met and spoke with most of the candidates.
-Most of the candidates did not really have any interest in I.T. at all.
-Most showed up for interview in plain clothes. No effort in dressing well.
-Most had been through at least 5 or 6 FAS courses in I.T.
-Most had been through work experience through the courses.
-Only one candidate was able to answer the question of what would you do to remove a virus from a pc.

Obviously I went with the one candidate that was able to answer the question of how to remove a virus from a pc.
What really amazes me is how many people applied that had no actual interest in the area. Dont visit tech websites etc.

One of the things I really dont like about the current state of dole system is people are told to send their CV's (most not very well done or spell checked) to everyone for any type of job. That just does not work. You HAVE to tailor your CV and Cover letter for every company.


Sorry for the rant. Just thought I would put this here.

Bits that stuck out for me highlighted above- Educated,Experienced staff which you arent even willing to give minimum wage to. Now the economy is in the toilet you want to exploit people for personal gain. 39 hrs a week in a van for 50 bob & no quality applicants surprise surprise! Yes show initiative and passion for working for free!
You haven't even common decency to offer minimum wage. Karma is a bitch, please god it will come around!

No you aren't doing anyone a favor- in a real economy people get paid for their time, skills or no skills.
Imagine your time again in the bars & getting no money for it?

Esoteric_

One_More_Mile wrote: »

Bits that stuck out for me highlighted above- Educated,Experienced staff which you arent even willing to give minimum wage to. Now the economy is in the toilet you want to exploit people for personal gain. 39 hrs a week in a van for 50 bob & no quality applicants surprise surprise! Yes show initiative and passion for working for free!
You haven't even common decency to offer minimum wage. Karma is a bitch, please god it will come around!

No you aren't doing anyone a favor- in a real economy people get paid for their time, skills or no skills.
Imagine your time again in the bars & getting no money for it?

5 or 6 FAS courses and a bit of work experience may not be enough for somebody to seek full time, paid employment in the IT sector. If they've applied for Job Bridge, I'd imagine that they're unable to get paid employment in the sector.

If done correctly, they could gain valuable experience from an internship, much as I disagree with the ethics behind it.

Ray Palmer

One_More_Mile wrote: »

Bits that stuck out for me highlighted above- Educated,Experienced staff which you arent even willing to give minimum wage to.

Having been dumped with recent graduates, college intern and other inexperienced staff they are often not worth minimum wage. They are completely unable to do the job or understand how to work. They take a lot of time to hand hold and cost money to train. I have college intern at the moment and it has taken him 4 days to test something that should have taken 2 hours max 5. Not uncommon, eventually they learn that work is not spoon fed and they have to go find out the answers.
Then you have to go and check their work which often needs to be redone. They are drain most of the time until they get proper experience. I have had good ones and they can be really good. It is a risk to take an intern on.

RealistSpy

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Having been dumped with recent graduates, college intern and other inexperienced staff they are often not worth minimum wage. They are completely unable to do the job or understand how to work. They take a lot of time to hand hold and cost money to train. I have college intern at the moment and it has taken him 4 days to test something that should have taken 2 hours max 5. Not uncommon, eventually they learn that work is not spoon fed and they have to go find out the answers.
Then you have to go and check their work which often needs to be redone. They are drain most of the time until they get proper experience. I have had good ones and they can be really good. It is a risk to take an intern on.

Hi,
Just curious about how you got to the position you are in at the moment? Did someone not give you a chance, when you lacked experience? It would be nice to put yourself or at least try put yourself in their position. I do understand what you mean but sometimes you need to spend money to make money.

April O Neill

RealistSpy wrote: »

Hi,
Just curious about how you got to the position you are in at the moment? Did someone not give you a chance, when you lacked experience? It would be nice to put yourself or at least try put yourself in their position. I do understand what you mean but sometimes you need to spend money to make money.

+1

shruikan2553

With jobs like IT and engineering 90% (note: statistic may have been pulled out of ass) of what you learn is from actually working on the job. While internships are good they should still be getting minimum wage for a few months until they are brought up to speed so they can be an asset to the business. In fact every internship I applied for in college all offered at least enough money to keep me living while having money left over to spare.

swedex

2Shae wrote: »

After a month I had to pick my final choices, I met and spoke with most of the candidates.
-Most of the candidates did not really have any interest in I.T. at all.
-Most showed up for interview in plain clothes. No effort in dressing well.
-Most had been through at least 5 or 6 FAS courses in I.T.
-Most had been through work experience through the courses.
-Only one candidate was able to answer the question of what would you do to remove a virus from a pc.

Obviously I went with the one candidate that was able to answer the question of how to remove a virus from a pc.
What really amazes me is how many people applied that had no actual interest in the area. Dont visit tech websites etc.

One of the things I really dont like about the current state of dole system is people are told to send their CV's (most not very well done or spell checked) to everyone for any type of job. That just does not work. You HAVE to tailor your CV and Cover letter for every company.


Sorry for the rant. Just thought I would put this here.

That's a rather vague question. I'm curious what was the answer you were expecting and the answer the candidate gave you? It's a bit like visiting a doctor and just saying you have a pain which could mean anything from an ingrown toenail to a brain tumor.

A virus is only a specific type of malware, a pc could be virus free but still infected.

Some file infector viruses are buggy pieces of crap, so even if disinfected can corrupt legitimate executable files that the virus was attached to resulting in loads of errors, many programs not working or a corrupted OS. So the only answer I could give to that question would be to reformat the hard drive (including all data) and reinstall the operating system, which would be complete overkill probably 90% plus of the time. But then what would I know, I don't work in IT.

the_syco

2Shae wrote: »

Vmware & Hyper V virtual servers,
Server 2008 & 2012 Servers (usually running inside a virtual server),
Linux Servers (CentOS, Ubuntu, FreeBSD),
VOIP Phone Systems (Asterisk),
Sonicwall Firewalls,
Cisco Switches,
Wifi Solutions – Ubiquiti & Cisco,
Desktop & User Support,
Mobile Device Support – Tablets, Mobiles etc. (IOS, Android, Blackberry),
Website Setup & Support. ( Wordpress, Joomla etc )
Cloud Services – Supply & Support – Email, Accounting software, & more.

Desktop & User Support is 1st level support that you'll pay someone 20k for. Maybe the website support as well, if you don't mind all the websites looking the same. For the rest, people would usually have qualifications for. Although there are lots of IT people out there unemployed, the IT term is fairly vague, so unknown how much of them are IT support. Also, if someone has a few of the above certs, they should be able to get a paid job of some sort.

2Shae wrote: »

I submitted the role information and waited for the CV's to flood in.
Some days I got one or two cv's in.

Saying you were a startup, and listing the above, would scare anyone who is qualified in the above into thinking that you want to use them as free labour.

2Shae wrote: »

-Most of the candidates did not really have any interest in I.T. at all.
-Most showed up for interview in plain clothes. No effort in dressing well.

I'm thinking a few people that you got didn't want the job, but merrily went for the position so that they can say to the dole officer that they applied for X number of jobs, to continue to claim the dole.

2Shae wrote: »

-Most had been through at least 5 or 6 FAS courses in I.T.
-Most had been through work experience through the courses.

Work experience is the general point of said courses, but unfortunately the people in said "work experience" sometimes get a great job, but often become tea ladies for a month with a reference saying that they were there for the allotted time.

It also shows one thing; a willingness to learn!

2Shae wrote: »

-Only one candidate was able to answer the question of what would you do to remove a virus from a pc.

Obviously I went with the one candidate that was able to answer the question of how to remove a virus from a pc.

2Shae wrote: »

One of the things I really dont like about the current state of dole system is people are told to send their CV's (most not very well done or spell checked) to everyone for any type of job. That just does not work. You HAVE to tailor your CV and Cover letter for every company.

Although you'll get the odd helpful cog in the system, it seems most couldn't be arsed helping you tailor your CV.

2Shae wrote: »

Sorry for the rant. Just thought I would put this here.

It's good to talk

Esoteric_ wrote: »

Funnily enough, it tends to be people desperate for work who take Job Bridge offers, rather than people 'sitting on their holes all day,' because you actually have to get up and APPLY for it.

Some do, but a lot do it so that their dole doesn't get cut.
Same goes for FAS courses. When I was doing a FAS course a few years back (during the "boom" years), one was doing it so that he'd continue getting his course. Two were doing it to escape from the wife for a few hours each day.

2Shae wrote: »

As for the whole people having certs you should re-read the post and some of the others on here.

On the point of certs; Vmware & Hyper V, Server 2008 & 2012 Servers, Linux Servers, Cisco Switches, Ubiquiti & Cisco would often need certs or work experience with a view to getting a cert to be of any use, or their f**k ups would cost you a lot.

If you scaled back on what you wanted, you'd probably get better results, or rejig what you looked for.

• Desktop & User Support,
• Website Setup & Support. ( Wordpress, Joomla etc )
• Mobile Device Support – Tablets, Mobiles etc. (IOS, Android, Blackberry),
• Linux Servers (CentOS, Ubuntu, FreeBSD), experience (most *nix heads usually have their head stuck on)
• -
• VOIP Phone Systems (Asterisk),
• Sonicwall Firewalls,
• Cisco Switches,
• Wifi Solutions – Ubiquiti & Cisco,
• Vmware & Hyper V virtual servers,
• Server 2008 & 2012 Servers (usually running inside a virtual server),
• Cloud Services – Supply & Support – Email, Accounting software, & more.

This is so that people won't read the first two lines and skip to the next ad. You'll get people who have the first four lines, but after that you'll probably have to pay them a wage, IMO.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They are completely unable to do the job or understand how to work.

You'll find that the useless interns got the place as they have family in the job :mad:

oneshot2shots

I think the areas are relatively interesting and the candidate gets a choice. The networking side of things seems pretty interesting and I know I'd personally jump at the chance. VMware is a serious cash cow.

The fact remains job-bridge is a joke. Guy I'm living with works in a small business where there are no less than 4 unpaid workers from jobridge(He has a masters and is putting in the graft I'm fairly sure) Of course I don't blame the employers, i'm a fan of the free market and it's the governments blundering incompetence as usual. But to work for 9 months for free is just demoralizing and soul-destroying, a 100 quid from the employer would go such a long way and should definately be imposed. Will this unpaid labour really kick-start the economy as opposed to the business's actually having to hire full time workers with an income? Generally I am against all types of welfare nonsense which is always harmful to the economy and pro business and equality for all citizens but I think candidates should be paid a nominal fee - if they are suitable and willing to work.

oneshot2shots

Actually scratch that I wasn't aware that they were actually getting benefits as well as the 50 euro, I worked on JB for free for about a month(not entitled to benefits still in college but wanted experience in the area). 5 euro an hour for an internship in an area of interest, if it is of interest, doesen't seem bad at all. People can scream slave labour to the heavens, a work ethic has to be regained, and try and get your heads around the fact that it's working people paying for these benefits.

All in all, its still a joke of a system - http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/employment/department-investigates-over-200-complaints-into-conduct-of-jobbridge-firms-1.1351863

Esse85

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Having been dumped with recent graduates, college intern and other inexperienced staff they are often not worth minimum wage. They are completely unable to do the job or understand how to work. They take a lot of time to hand hold and cost money to train. I have college intern at the moment and it has taken him 4 days to test something that should have taken 2 hours max 5. Not uncommon, eventually they learn that work is not spoon fed and they have to go find out the answers.
Then you have to go and check their work which often needs to be redone. They are drain most of the time until they get proper experience. I have had good ones and they can be really good. It is a risk to take an intern on.

Who hired these graduates?

April O Neill

oneshot2shots wrote: »

Actually scratch that I wasn't aware that they were actually getting benefits as well as the 50 euro, I worked on JB for free for about a month(not entitled to benefits still in college but wanted experience in the area). 5 euro an hour for an internship in an area of interest, if it is of interest, doesen't seem bad at all.

One month as opposed to nine months...

And if you were still in college, that's kinda different.

Mrs OBumble

oneshot2shots wrote: »

Actually scratch that I wasn't aware that they were actually getting benefits as well as the 50 euro

I firmly believe that the employer should be paying them, not the government. Ok for the company to get a subsidy - but IMOH not 100%

stevenmu

ImDave wrote: »

As the above poster alludes to, a huge amount of people are entering IT training courses just because FAS, government agencies or educational institutions are boasting the benefits of the IT sector for employment prospects. You see it even on Boards a lot, people who have absolutely no previous experience or interest in IT on courses for CCNA, CompTIA etc.

I realise that re-skilling and re-training is a very plausible ideology for many people, but there is an attitude amongst state organisations that it doesn't matter what you have done previously, labouring/construction to architecture or sales - go get as many IT certs as you can and you'll have no problem getting a job.

It's crazy really. If you want to go into IT, just like any profession, you have to have a passion and an interest for it. Otherwise, all the certs and courses in the world won't matter a damn as your lack of interest will shine through at interview.

+1, as someone who has worked in IT for the last 10 years, and who has a huge passion for IT and technology, I am increasingly getting worried about this trend for a couple of reasons.

First of all, a lot of the reason why the IT sector is doing so well at the moment is because we have a good pool of very talented, educated and motivated IT professionals. If we flood the market with people like those in the OP, who have no interest, talent or ability, we will dilute that pool and reduce our international reputation. How will Microsoft or Google etc react if they advertise some jobs and get 50 people like that applying.

Secondly, it promotes this whole idea of using cheap or even free interns to do skilled work. I don't mean to attack the OP directly, but most of the roles listed there are actually quite highly skilled and should command appropriate levels of pay. It's possible the OP is willing to take people on without these skills and put a lot of effort into training them, and if so fair play, but there do seem to be an increasing number of employers out there trying to get people in to do highly skilled jobs on jobbridge or other internships. I know the phrase "race to the bottom" gets thrown around a lot, but that's really what it's starting to look like.

oneshot2shots

April O Neill wrote: »

One month as opposed to nine months...

And if you were still in college, that's kinda different.

only gave up really because had too much college work, fairly confident he would have treated me ok if i had stuck it out, but it was next to impossible. He too told me horror stories of people he got on jobridge. Like everything else it depends - Some employers are taking the pi** and treating interns as slaves and some of the people on jobridge are just unable to work.

oneshot2shots

stevenmu wrote: »

Secondly, it promotes this whole idea of using cheap or even free interns to do skilled work. I don't mean to attack the OP directly, but most of the roles listed there are actually quite highly skilled and should command appropriate levels of pay. It's possible the OP is willing to take people on without these skills and put a lot of effort into training them, and if so fair play, but there do seem to be an increasing number of employers out there trying to get people in to do highly skilled jobs on jobbridge or other internships. I know the phrase "race to the bottom" gets thrown around a lot, but that's really what it's starting to look like.

Couldn't agree more but I do think that these specializied areas to the unemployed are a massive opportunity; Sure there are many of them that would be happy to work in desptop support but there are surely some who want to do well.I think business owners would have better luck and get more better candidates on gumtree.

Ray Palmer

RealistSpy wrote: »

Hi,
Just curious about how you got to the position you are in at the moment? Did someone not give you a chance, when you lacked experience? It would be nice to put yourself or at least try put yourself in their position. I do understand what you mean but sometimes you need to spend money to make money.

I worked 2 minimum wage jobs that required some training on the job. I was promoted in one of them as I showed ability. I then demonstrated more ability and got further promoted. Then changed jobs learned more and got higher wages rinse and repeat. That was when minimum wage was much much lower and did not have the clause of being able to do the job.

I was given a chance by showing I could do the job and took on my own responsibilities to make the job more challenging.

The post was a response for not paying minimum wage. The point being they don't have the experience for minimum wages and cost money. They are getting the opportunity and being paid money. The argument was that a company is saving and making money off Jobsbridge, when in fact it can cost more than gained.

the_syco wrote: »

You'll find that the useless interns got the place as they have family in the job :mad:

No I won't as that was not the case. One guy got the job as his parents were friendly with the manager but he was brilliant.

Most are hired through HR in graduate programs or Jobsbridge. College graduate often have a chip on their shoulder about their own perceived knowledge.

It is not uncommon for a graduate who is being trained to tell you they know better because their college professor told them something else. Equally common is the inability to follow simple instructions and understand a work ethic.

We all have to start somewhere but it doesn't mean a company has to spend a ton on people while they get that ability.

allibastor

2Shae wrote: »

I started a new company in Sept last year. IT Support & Installation is the area of business.
I have recently gone through the process of looking for someone to train through the Job Bridge Scheme.
The role I put up allowed the Candidate to work with any of the following area(s) - ( whichever the Candidate was interested in )

Vmware & Hyper V virtual servers,
Server 2008 & 2012 Servers (usually running inside a virtual server),
Linux Servers (CentOS, Ubuntu, FreeBSD),
VOIP Phone Systems (Asterisk),
Sonicwall Firewalls,
Cisco Switches,
Wifi Solutions – Ubiquiti & Cisco,
Desktop & User Support,
Mobile Device Support – Tablets, Mobiles etc. (IOS, Android, Blackberry),
Website Setup & Support. ( Wordpress, Joomla etc )
Cloud Services – Supply & Support – Email, Accounting software, & more.

I submitted the role information and waited for the CV's to flood in.
Some days I got one or two cv's in.

After a month I had to pick my final choices, I met and spoke with most of the candidates.
-Most of the candidates did not really have any interest in I.T. at all.
-Most showed up for interview in plain clothes. No effort in dressing well.
-Most had been through at least 5 or 6 FAS courses in I.T.
-Most had been through work experience through the courses.
-Only one candidate was able to answer the question of what would you do to remove a virus from a pc.

Obviously I went with the one candidate that was able to answer the question of how to remove a virus from a pc.
What really amazes me is how many people applied that had no actual interest in the area. Dont visit tech websites etc.

One of the things I really dont like about the current state of dole system is people are told to send their CV's (most not very well done or spell checked) to everyone for any type of job. That just does not work. You HAVE to tailor your CV and Cover letter for every company.


Sorry for the rant. Just thought I would put this here.

Hi Op,

The big problem you will have is that many people with IT skills will be holding out for the likes of Google, Microsoft, Dropbox, Salesofrce etc.

I really dont mean to sound bad on it, but the IT sector is still booming and many people do feel that doing a job bridge for the role is not the way to go. I wont attack you on the whole job bridge things as you have had on this thread, I personally dont agree with it, but it does help some people.

It is unfortunatly a problem, the old adage of paying peanuts to get monkeys does apply, you wont ever get the best person for the role unless you pay for it, and even people with training requirements who have a good head on thier shoulders will try and find a company with prospects and where very high level trainign can be provided, none of which seems to be on offer with you.

ShaShaBear

OP I don't see why you do not take advantage of another scheme that the Government have in place, which is far more beneficial for the potential employee and you can benefit too.

It's called the Jobs Plus Initiative. It comprises of you giving a full time position to someone (of your choosing through interviews you stage yourself, with your own qualification and flexibility parameters) who has been unemployed and claiming benefits for at least 12 months. You will receive a monthly stipend which totals over one year to €7500, or a whopping €10000 if they have been unemployed for 2 years.

In my opinion, it's much less demoralizing and you would actually be showing an interest in upskilling these people, rather than exploiting the fact that they have 5 IT certificates (which clearly shows a relative level of committment, punctuality, attendance and willingness to learn if they passed the exams) to get your new business up and running at a slashed price.

It's funny how a lot of businesses have conveniently not heard of this grant that means they give someone a full-time job and get their first year's wages subsidised by the government. Perhaps it's because it protects the new employee by revoking the grant if the employee is released before one year, and a refund of all payments is demanded if the employer is discovered to be getting rid of current staff (or cutting their hours) in order to make room for grant-eligible employees.

uberalles

shruikan2553 wrote: »

With jobs like IT and engineering 90% (note: statistic may have been pulled out of ass) of what you learn is from actually working on the job. While internships are good they should still be getting minimum wage for a few months until they are brought up to speed so they can be an asset to the business. In fact every internship I applied for in college all offered at least enough money to keep me living while having money left over to spare.

+1
Agreed. The pay is way too low IMO. Why not make it +100 at least to give the person some dignity and the chance to buy some work clothes and a sandwich once a month?

Ray Palmer

allibastor wrote: »

Hi Op,

The big problem you will have is that many people with IT skills will be holding out for the likes of Google, Microsoft, Dropbox, Salesofrce etc.

.

They can hold out all they like but they won't get in those places without good qualifications and experience. Those companies can pick and choose. I know lots of very experienced people who can't get jobs in those companies.

Chances of somebody on Jobsbridge getting into those places has got to be close to nil.

doolox

...I spent (wasted) 30 years of my life in Info Technology on the hardware side of things and while it kept me solvent for the first 20 years it is now a huge struggle to anyone with less than a total commitment or passion for the knowledge base required to do the job properly.

I can say without equivocation that there are many former colleagues who are delighted that I no longer work in Technology, causing them heartache by making mistakes which they were obliged to correct wasting everyones time and money......

I am now employed in a completely different area an intend to stay there.

I would strongly advise anyone to seriously consider their motives for entering the IT carreer path.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

kennryyr wrote: »

Slave-bridge... oh you guys!:rolleyes:

It's not the company handing them the €50 it's the government. The scheme was set up to help people find employment in the long term. I know some employers do take advantage of it (a small minority I'm sure), but the OP seems like a nice guy and was giving the candidate the option of choosing what field they wanted experience in.

I don't see the harm?

What I find disgraceful is that people sit on their holes all day everyday while the government forks out €188 a week, and these low lives don't even look for / want a job.

Then something like JobBridge comes along and they start attacking it saying 'oh it's a 39 hour job and we don't get paid for it.'

Please, you're lucky to be even given the opportunity to get off your ar*e and contribute to society

I wonder how many of these "employers" who are benefiting from a free pool of labour, contributed themselves to society by offering their interns paid employment on completion of their placement? If a business cannot afford to pay its employees, then it has to examine whether it's actually viable, and on that score, it's not the responsibility of any jobseeker to subsidize non-viable businesses.

cordni

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The general hatred of Jobs Bridge comes through. Why people choose to attack the OP on his post for using a system that helps the employer and employee.

There are people constantly saying they can't get into IT even though they have IT degrees. This employer has just shown that people who claim "they are desperate" aren't actually looking.


Attacking the role is pointless, it is a very good role to get experience and a work ethic. Most first time workers are quite clueless and may not understand management structures or have ability to work on their own.

I would say the 5-6 Fas courses may actually be fewer as they often include more than one examinations. Some courses are also very short

Unfortunately although the OP is genuinely offering an internship that will help develop somebody's skills. the vast amount of these opportunities have just been ridiculous. They have exploited workers and taken jobs off the market. If this program was managed in some way it could be very valuable to those looking to enter the work force or indeed retrain. But as it is, it is just another of the governments ill thought-out schemes.

mets

If I had enough money to pay rent, bills and to buy food for my baby, I would kill for the chance to get some experience. But now I cant afford it, and I am not getting any allowences.
In every job ad is written "min. exp. - 1+ year". And how am I supposed to get this experience without getting a job? Nobody wants to deal with newbie, because nobody wants to waste time on teaching someone who doesnt make profit for the company. And I hate this situation.
JB is a good idea, but it is not working properly. IMO:
* intership should be open to anyone, but not only for those, who are on a dole
* should be paid by employer
* employer should pay less taxes or get some other benefits, if the company has the interns.
Intern gets experience and at least minimum wage on which he can buy bread and milk. Employer pays him, but his taxes are reduced. Economics gets taxes back when the intern buys bread and milk. Everyone is happy )

Nate--IRL--

mets wrote: »

If I had enough money to pay rent, bills and to buy food for my baby, I would kill for the chance to get some experience. But now I cant afford it, and I am not getting any allowences.
In every job ad is written "min. exp. - 1+ year". And how am I supposed to get this experience without getting a job? Nobody wants to deal with newbie, because nobody wants to waste time on teaching someone who doesnt make profit for the company. And I hate this situation.
JB is a good idea, but it is not working properly. IMO:
* intership should be open to anyone, but not only for those, who are on a dole
* should be paid by employer
* employer should pay less taxes or get some other benefits, if the company has the interns.
Intern gets experience and at least minimum wage on which he can buy bread and milk. Employer pays him, but his taxes are reduced. Economics gets taxes back when the intern buys bread and milk. Everyone is happy )

That sounds far too much like a good idea to ever happen.

Nate

Icdb

Was Googling about Jobbridge jobs and your thread popped up. Did you ever find anyone worth taking on.

I'd be interested in submitting my CV.

Based in Galway.

Mr. Incognito

I wonder if the job bridge guy kept a job or got replaced by another intern