What is wrong with this stairs please???

donutheadhomer

Can you take a look and see what is wrong that is causing this shaking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8KJGCFqZSE

http://youtu.be/s8KJGCFqZSE

fergal.b

Your video is set on private.





.

donutheadhomer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8KJGCFqZSE

fergal.b wrote: »

Your video is set on private.





.

now

tribalwings

Looks like the bottom of the nule post isn't attached? It could be broke or if there's a few big screws holding it in, they could've came loose. Hard to tell from that video

donutheadhomer

tribalwings wrote: »

Looks like the bottom of the nule post isn't attached? It could be broke or if there's a few big screws holding it in, they could've came loose. Hard to tell from that video

could i take it from a different angle to clarify? is this difficult/epensive to repair

tribalwings

A set of stairs usually start with the 2 nule posts being set in place. Then hand and base rail, followed by spindles. So basically you'd need a carpenter/joiner to have a look and see what he can do. He might be able to just replace the nule post and hold everything back together with big screws and lots of glue

Alun

Not wanting to be a spelling nazi, but if the OP is googling stuff on this it's spelt 'newel', not 'nule'.

Hootanany

You need to lift the landing thread and see the joint most probaly a halving joint by a chancer need to lift it before you can get the answer.

donutheadhomer

Hootanany wrote: »

You need to lift the landing thread and see the joint most probaly a halving joint by a chancer need to lift it before you can get the answer.

Any idea what I would be paying to get this job done?

baby fish

The joint between the string and the newel post is loose, possibly caused by somebody swinging out of it every time they go down the stairs and this could be combined with what was mentioned above - the wrong joint used or maybe no glue used.

Can you take a video again around the area where the newel post joins the stairs?

Most straight forward way to fix this is to use some 100mm screws to re join the newel to the string, but not too many or the wood could split. This should only take a few minutes, but it might not be possible to reach this area now with spindles etc in the way. might be able to get it from the ground floor.
Make sure if you do get it fixed nobody swings out of the newel again! The bottom newel is usually the one to be loose first as somebody runs down the stairs swinging out of the newel and into the kitchen

so if the screw don't work you probably will be looking at removing the hand rail and spindles and fix it from there, may require some new parts if they get damaged. Get a qualified carpenter, should be done in 1 day anyway, definitely not over 2 days

Hootanany

EurasianBadger wrote: »

Any idea what I would be paying to get this job done?

about €80.00 to a €100 no more than that.

donutheadhomer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNV0JHGIWI

Here is another video - hopefully better
I've a painter coming in 2 weeks so hopefully get it sorted by then

kadman

In all fairness, that vid tells you very little.

Top newel may or may not be fitted correctly, both to the string, and properly attached to the trimmers at the top of the stairs.
If its a loose connection at the string, that may prove tricky enough to fix, but not impossible. If its poorly attached around the trimmers, no amount of 100 mm screws will fix it. More like 150 mm coach screws into the trimmers, and plugged at the newel.
Its possible to consider a support from the handrail to the ope trimmer, where the handrail is just above the level of the ceiling.
Of course there is probably a similar situation at the newel at the bottom of the string as well.

If you do get someone to quote you a professional solution for this problem, show him the door. As its going to require a pro to fix this PROPERLY for you. Its going to take more than screws and glue, and 100 euro unfortunately..

First route is get a professional opinion, ONSITE.

kadman

Scroll down to AWBCM's post, I think about 10 posts down the page. And read his views on a similar prediacament, replacing and re fixing a newel post.

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=147145

Sums it up in my professional opinion:)

baby fish

I agree with Kadman, you have to get an experienced carpenter/joiner on site to look at it.

It is too hard to see what is moving on the stairs in the new video, as the camera is not fixed, its moving all over the place - the area around the bottom of the newel post and string is the area of interest.

Unfortunately its usually not possible to lift the stairs and attach a new newel post because the stairs is probably fixed through the wall string to the wall........So I think he is actually looking at screws as the only fix. Its not great but that's it.

An alternative solution could be to replace the entire section of handrail and spindles etc on the landing with something more solid, e.g. 3 X 2 timber frame with plasterboard fixed on either side and then fix that loose newel post at the top of the stairs in to this.

kadman

As baby fish says, its an onsite assessment thats needed. The vid shows nothing.

Lifting the stairs is possible, but major work, and major dosh.

Its possible to fully stabilise that newel post, with a small bit of ingenuity. Its conceivable to force the newel post back towards the wall, by a carefully placed expanding steel bracket on the existing trimming joist that the stairs and newel currently sit on.

1chippy

Check and see if its a 2 part newel. i.e the moulded section is a different piece to the base or square section. it could be something very simple, so i wouldnt advise panicking just yet. There are multiples of options on what the problem could be and multiple options on the solutions too. I dont even know how someone would quote for fixing that bar a guess.

Hootanany

kadman wrote: »

In all fairness, that vid tells you very little.

Top newel may or may not be fitted correctly, both to the string, and properly attached to the trimmers at the top of the stairs.
If its a loose connection at the string, that may prove tricky enough to fix, but not impossible. If its poorly attached around the trimmers, no amount of 100 mm screws will fix it. More like 150 mm coach screws into the trimmers, and plugged at the newel.
Its possible to consider a support from the handrail to the ope trimmer, where the handrail is just above the level of the ceiling.
Of course there is probably a similar situation at the newel at the bottom of the string as well.

If you do get someone to quote you a professional solution for this problem, show him the door. As its going to require a pro to fix this PROPERLY for you. Its going to take more than screws and glue, and 100 euro unfortunately..

First route is get a professional opinion, ONSITE.

I have fitted Stairs retro for the last 20 years so I know what I am talking about.

kadman

Hootanany wrote: »

I have fitted Stairs retro for the last 20 years so I know what I am talking about.

Sorry if you took my post up as anything other than my opinion.:)

I,m an experienced carpenter/ joiner too, kindred spirit:D And I know what I,m talking about too.

I,ve designed, made, and fitted straight, dogleg, winder, curved and spiral stairs, all in timber. Over a 40 year period. And was asked to vet fellow tradesmen for a UK professional body. So I probably know a bit.

In my opinion, 100 mm screws wont suffice for 2 reasons. They are going into a 100mm post, so wont get any purchase into the trimmers. And secondly they are too flexible and light to do the job properly, if its a full size newel post, that has become loose at the end of the string.

But thats just my opinion. I reckon the op would be delighted if you could fix it for him for less than 100, maybe a pm:)

kadman

donutheadhomer

kadman wrote: »

Sorry if you took my post up as anything other than my opinion.:)

I,m an experienced carpenter/ joiner too, kindred spirit:D And I know what I,m talking about too.

I,ve designed, made, and fitted straight, dogleg, winder, curved and spiral stairs, all in timber. Over a 40 year period. And was asked to vet fellow tradesmen for a UK professional body. So I probably know a bit.

In my opinion, 100 mm screws wont suffice for 2 reasons. They are going into a 100mm post, so wont get any purchase into the trimmers. And secondly they are too flexible and light to do the job properly, if its a full size newel post, that has become loose at the end of the string.

But thats just my opinion. I reckon the op would be delighted if you could fix it for him for less than 100, maybe a pm:)

kadman

living in Limerick lads if anyone interested in fixing this stairs - at a reasonable price

baby fish

kadman wrote: »

In my opinion, 100 mm screws wont suffice for 2 reasons. They are going into a 100mm post, so wont get any purchase into the trimmers. And secondly they are too flexible and light to do the job properly, if its a full size newel post, that has become loose at the end of the string.

kadman

First of all, your opinion is welcome and I take no offence from this:)
I would like to clarify why I suggested screws as a possible fix.

Basically, It all depends on how much he is willing to spend and how much work he is willing to have done to get to the newel - We are presuming the newel is full length and the problem is the joint between the string and the newel, we can't tell from the video. The newel mightn't be full length as somebody suggested, then its a different story.

It has been suggested to lift the stairs to get at the newel, Some people haven't got the money for this work nor would they be willing to damage the stairs or wall finishes etc by lifting the stairs. Yes , this will work and is probably the best but is it worth it and how much damage will be caused with this solution?

Maybe I'm wrong and it shouldn't be done but any stairs I've fitted I have always fixed the wall string to the wall with frame anchors, with the newel post notched over the joist and the frame anchors I would feel it is impossible for these stairs to be lifted without causing damage to the stairs.

So I suggested the best option in relation to causing least damage , some 100mm screws. I do think some screws are more than capable of providing enough strength for normal use of the stairs, i.e walking up and down a stairs with your hand just sliding on the handrail.

Screws are not ideal, especially taking into consideration "the law of the lever" , if somebody swings out of the newel everyday yes the newel could work its way loose again, .... and that's why I said in an earlier post - make sure nobody swings out of the newel.

Screws could work because the overall 100mm thickness of the newel should be reduced as it is notched over the trimmer and the distance the screws have to travel to find their purchase could be reduced further by drilling a hole large enough in the newel to accept the head of the screw and obviously plug the hole later, this should be able to get the screws 50mm into the trimmer. Could possibly go in to the newel with a screw at an angle just in front of the top riser and in to the trimmer. Plug the hole later again.

Yes its not ideal.... Its only a suggestion

OP, let us know how you get on and good luck:D

kadman

Healthy debate is a good thing, and varied opinions allow the op to arrive at a solution that suits him.

Of course your technical description is correct as regards the string fixing to the wall, as well as the newel arrangement notched over the trimmer. Standard spec really.

Personally, I would use longer fixings at the newel for a couple of reasons. A 100mm screw will only penetrate into a combined depth of only 100 mm for obvious reasons....as its only 100 mm long. Whether this breakdown is 50 mm into a softwood trimmer, and 50 mm into a teak newel. There is still only 50 mm of capture by a wire flexible fixing. And as its wire, it is flexible, so can allow movement. I would suggest that a washered 150 mm coach screw, countersunk and capped, would be a stronger option. Just my 2 cents. Washered bolt arrangement through the newel , and through the trimmer would of course be extremely strong, but necessitates some small removal of the ceiling slab, to get access.

Of course its really down to the guy on site, doing the work to arrange a solution that best fits the problem, and of course matches the op's budget. I dont believe that a figure of around 100 euro would do the deed though.

Unfortunately it would cost me over 60 euro in juice just to travel there for tea and bics:)

I hope that the op gets a fix that matches his budget, so I'll leave you to work that out for him

kadman

Hootanany

I never Said screws where the option the solution is starring t
You in the face I'm in Dubblin so would not warrant a visits it for that price but a clued in Carpenter will cop on how to fix it properly.