Sligo train stopping in Clonsilla rather than Maynooth?

n97 mini

Would this make more sense as there is a rail junction in Clonsilla?

Currently anyone wishing to travel onwards on the M3PW branch has to change at Maynooth and again at Clonsilla, and again some of the timetabling is pretty poor (18.00 ex Sligo to M3PW requires 2 x 25 minute waits).

Losty Dublin

n97 mini wrote: »

Would this make more sense as there is a rail junction in Clonsilla?

Currently anyone wishing to travel onwards on the M3PW branch has to change at Maynooth and again at Clonsilla, and again some of the timetabling is pretty poor (18.00 ex Sligo to M3PW requires 2 x 25 minute waits).

Anyone with an emphasis on one, yeah

I can't see any demand for such a stop. Maybe if the line went onto Navan but now?

n97 mini

Does Maynooth make more sense?

LXFlyer

Yes - a lot more sense. For one there is a university there that students will be travelling to from both directions along the line!

n0brain3r

Have to say anytime I've used it I've seen passengers board and disembark at Maynooth in both directions and it seems to be all walks of live too not just students. I don't get why some services stop in Drumcondra too though.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes - a lot more sense. For one there is a university there that students will be travelling to from both directions along the line!

Maynooth's commuter services would remain unchanged, it's only the Sligo Intercity services that would stop at Clonsilla instead of Maynooth. Change-overs between the two would be at Clonsilla.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Maynooth's commuter services would remain unchanged, it's only the Sligo Intercity services that would stop at Clonsilla instead of Maynooth. Change-overs between the two would be at Clonsilla.

You are missing my point.

There is not insignifcant traffic to/from Maynooth from WEST of Maynooth, i.e. intercity customers. Maynooth is a major destination with a university. Your proposal would mean those passengers would have to travel all the way into Clonsilla and then double back to Maynooth adding totally unnecessary journey time.

There is no major transport target (such as a hospital, college, major employer etc.) attracting customers to Hansfield, Dunboyne or M3 Parkway from west of Maynooth (or frankly anywhere else). The line to/from M3 Parkway exists to serve the provide a commuter link to/from Dublin for the residential communities along it at Hansfield and Dunboyne, and drivers to/from Meath at M3 Parkway.

I cannot see any merit in your proposal as it would quite frankly annoy significantly more people than the miniscule numbers that would want to go to those three stations.

LXFlyer

n0brain3r wrote: »

Have to say anytime I've used it I've seen passengers board and disembark at Maynooth in both directions and it seems to be all walks of live too not just students. I don't get why some services stop in Drumcondra too though.

It was (if I recall correctly) in response to requests from DCU to facilitate students travelling from the Sligo line.

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Would this make more sense as there is a rail junction in Clonsilla?

Currently anyone wishing to travel onwards on the M3PW branch has to change at Maynooth and again at Clonsilla, and again some of the timetabling is pretty poor (18.00 ex Sligo to M3PW requires 2 x 25 minute waits).

There is no need for the Sligo train to stop in Clonsilla as there are plenty of commuter trains to and from Maynooth that stop there.

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Maynooth's commuter services would remain unchanged, it's only the Sligo Intercity services that would stop at Clonsilla instead of Maynooth. Change-overs between the two would be at Clonsilla.

You want the Sligo train to stop in Clonsilla and the passengers get off and wait for the train to Maynooth????? Wouldnt they just get the Maynooth train in the first place if that was the case?????

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You want the Sligo train to stop in Clonsilla and the passengers get off and wait for the train to Maynooth????? Wouldnt they just get the Maynooth train in the first place if that was the case?????

Passengers FROM Sligo would change in Clonsilla for a connection to Maynooth. A bit like passengers FROM Sligo change in Maynooth for a connection to Clonsilla presently.

lxflyer wrote: »

Maynooth is a major destination with a university.

I suspect a lot of people getting off the train FROM Sligo at Maynooth are doing so to get a connecting train.

Your emphasis on students is misplaced, and I suspect they account for far less numbers than you seem to think. Most who travel only do so on Fri or Sun, and then during summer holidays etc they're absent entirely.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Passengers FROM Sligo would change in Clonsilla for a connection to Maynooth. A bit like passengers FROM Sligo change in Maynooth for a connection to Clonsilla presently.


I suspect a lot of people getting off the train FROM Sligo at Maynooth are doing so to get a connecting train.

Your emphasis on students is misplaced, and I suspect they account for far less numbers than you seem to think. Most who travel only do so on Fri or Sun, and then during summer holidays etc they're absent entirely.

You are still missing the point - there is nothing to draw passengers to the M3 line in the form of a source of traffic - Maynooth is a major town with decent numbers travelling to and from it in both directions.

Why inconvenience far more customers than M3 would ever deliver?

Asking people to travel an extra 20-30 minutes, including doubling back on themselves is rather daft.

Added to that, Maynooth is the crossing point for Sligo trains - so one of them HAS to stop there.

Hilly Bill

Now Mini, it makes no sense to skip Maynooth in favour of Clonsilla and then get the train back to Maynooth.

dowlingm

Wait till they add a stop at Broombridge :eek: for Line D to DIT Grangegorman

cython

Adding a stop in this manner at Clonsilla instead would only serve to complicate the running of entire services on the line. At it stands Maynooth is the terminus for most of the commuter (AKA all stops) services, whereas randomly dropping a stop on the intercity trains into the middle of the line would probably mean having to leave greater gaps between the following commuter services.

Not to mention that bringing travellers in only to go back makes next to no sense, and only serves to add at least 30 mins to the journey, assuming instantaneous connection, which is a big assumption. Currently most people coming up from Rosslare if they want to get to a south side station (except maybe GCD and Lansdowne if they are far enough in) get off at Bray and get a connecting DART, rather than going in to Pearse and coming back, but yet you would enforce the same on the Maynooth line to facilitate services to a station that is intended for commuters, and would likely have minimal people booking a journey through from beyond Maynooth? Absolute madness!

n97 mini

cython wrote: »

Currently most people coming up from Rosslare if they want to get to a south side station (except maybe GCD and Lansdowne if they are far enough in) get off at Bray and get a connecting DART

Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly! As you have pointed out, those going to those stations will double back. Doubling back is a normal occurrence!

While doubling back from Clonsilla to Maynooth would add 15 mins (assuming IE can timetable it), stopping Sligo trains in Clonsilla could remove up to 25 mins for those going on the M3PW branch.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly! As you have pointed out, those going to those stations will double back. Doubling back is a normal occurrence!

While doubling back from Clonsilla to Maynooth would add 15 mins (assuming IE can timetable it), stopping Sligo trains in Clonsilla could remove up to 25 mins for those going on the M3PW branch.

But WHO would want to do that trip? What is going to draw legions of people to the M3PW branch from stations between Sligo and Kilcock in greater numbers than a university/tourist town such as Maynooth?

This is just pure nonsense.

TheChrisD

Factoring in a stop at Clonsilla would actually probably be of benefit to commuter passengers who are delayed at Clonsilla whenever said InterCity train ex-Sligo is running late, and the following ex-Maynooth commuter train is delayed... I've been waiting at Clonsilla for over 25 minutes far too many times for a train supposed to arrive in 10 because of a late InterCity train.

LXFlyer

TheChrisD wrote: »

Factoring in a stop at Clonsilla would actually probably be of benefit to commuter passengers who are delayed at Clonsilla whenever said InterCity train ex-Sligo is running late, and the following ex-Maynooth commuter train is delayed... I've been waiting at Clonsilla for over 25 minutes far too many times for a train supposed to arrive in 10 because of a late InterCity train.

But at the price of forcing people travelling between Sligo line stations and Maynooth to an extra 30 minutes completely unnecessary journey time on every trip rather than facilitate passengers who are occasionally delayed?

I'm sorry but this idea is just nuts.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

But WHO would want to do that trip? What is going to draw legions of people to the M3PW branch from stations between Sligo and Kilcock in greater numbers than a university/tourist town such as Maynooth?

Tourist town? Now you're clearly making stuff up! Maynooth has just one hotel, which is in NAMA.

You're going to need to provide some patronage figures for Maynooth to back up your argument.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

But at the price of forcing people travelling between Sligo line stations and Maynooth to an extra 30 minutes

More like 18 to 21. Current journey times Clonsilla to Maynooth are between 15 and 18 minutes.

LXFlyer

Well there is Carton Demesne.

Either way you still have not provided one solitary traffic generator on M3 Parkway branch that would out-rank Maynooth and justify this proposal.

As for journey times, I will happily stand over them - I factored in the return journey times plus wait time at Clonsilla. That is 30 minutes minimum which is the additional time your proposal would add to anyone going to Maynooth from stations west for every trip they take.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Well there is Carton Demesne.

How many people get the train to there? That's a serious stretch of the imagination.

lxflyer wrote: »

Either way you still have not provided one solitary traffic generator on M3 Parkway branch that would out-rank Maynooth and justify this proposal.

Population of Dunboyne+Ongar is the same as Maynooth. Then we have Clonsilla. It would inconvenience Maynooth passengers while conveniencing Dunboyne, Ongar and Clonsilla passengers.

cython

n97 mini wrote: »

Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly! As you have pointed out, those going to those stations will double back. Doubling back is a normal occurrence!

While doubling back from Clonsilla to Maynooth would add 15 mins (assuming IE can timetable it), stopping Sligo trains in Clonsilla could remove up to 25 mins for those going on the M3PW branch.

Wow, just wow. You take a couple of exceptions to the rule, and use it as justification by pretending that it's the norm? That's a special level of straw man argument! Not to mention your utterly fallacious maths as has been highlighted where you seem to think that doubling back only requires the difference in journey time in one direction! In case you've either convinced yourself I wrote something other than what I did, or in case you simply can't recall it, let me quote and emphasise it:

Currently most people coming up from Rosslare if they want to get to a south side station (except maybe GCD and Lansdowne if they are far enough in) get off at Bray and get a connecting DART, rather than going in to Pearse and coming back, but yet you would enforce the same on the Maynooth line to facilitate services to a station that is intended for commuters, and would likely have minimal people booking a journey through from beyond Maynooth? Absolute madness!

The important parts of the above are:

1. Most people would get off early and change to a slightly later arriving train
2. A few people might (and only might) go in and double back if they are going to stations on the extreme of the line (1 or 2 stops backwards of a significantly larger number being passed) - this is a scenario that isn't relevant to the current discussion, based on the number of stops and distances/timings involved in the suggestion

Further, anybody doubling back in the manner I described has the choice to do it, and is not forced to, and I'm willing to bet it's actually a very small number, as it would rely on very precise scheduling to actually benefit. Basically I don't think I stated strongly enough how much of a stretch the suggestion was!

n97 mini wrote:

Population of Dunboyne+Ongar is the same as Maynooth. Then we have Clonsilla. It would inconvenience Maynooth passengers while conveniencing Dunboyne, Ongar and Clonsilla passengers.

And how many of the above actually utilise this line for travelling to destinations beyond Maynooth? I'm not saying there's a huge amount of people in Maynooth that do, but this is genuinely where the student numbers will start to factor in, as there are likely more in Maynooth than in ITB using it in this manner.

This really is one of the most far-fetched and half-baked ideas I've seen in a while

TheBandicoot

TheChrisD wrote: »

Factoring in a stop at Clonsilla would actually probably be of benefit to commuter passengers who are delayed at Clonsilla whenever said InterCity train ex-Sligo is running late, and the following ex-Maynooth commuter train is delayed... I've been waiting at Clonsilla for over 25 minutes far too many times for a train supposed to arrive in 10 because of a late InterCity train.

Yep, any delay to a Sligo train has massive knock on effects on Maynooth and M3 Parkway trains, which then also leads to those trains missing their slots at North Strand Junction and being further delayed.

What would be a better solution though would be letting the ex-Maynooth commuter train leave ahead of the late running intercity, and then loop it at Clonsilla by temporarily switching to the down line while the commuter train picks up passengers on the up platform. The physical crossover layout allows this to happen, might need a signalling change and a change in attitude to consider these solutions instead of rigidly sticking to the pre set slots in the signalling system/working timetable.