Entrepreneurial spirit stifled by education

Nika Bolokov

Really interesting article in todays Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland/entrepreneurial-spirit-stifled-by-education-1.1467956

'most parents wanted their children to follow a traditional academic curriculum, because this was seen as offering secure jobs (in the civil service) and high status. When the National Institute of Higher Education opened in 1972, offering a range of courses geared towards business, many Limerick parents regretted the fact it was not a traditional university, offering courses in law and medicine; these were all added later.'

This is a major issue in Ireland I feel. We have hundreds of commerce graduates every year with no interest in 'commerce' but an interest in securing a trainee accountant position in a Big 4 firm and sitting out there life in the back office of a multinational.

We have computer science graduates doing localisation and QA who in other countries would probably have a bash on their own.

Huge competition for places on law courses for which there is no job at the end for many.

Thousands becoming teachers when there is a recruitment freeze.

This fixation on a respectable job is a real factor in crippling our recovery.

Im writing this from a 'trendy' ( i.e. kip of a ) district in Berlin in a café full of hipsters all of whom appear to be involved in some start up. Bit like SF.

Anyone any idea how to change this culture? I seriously think major cultural change is needed here.

ifah

I just read the article twice but still don't get that there is any message in there.

I don't agree that education is stifling Entrepreneurship, especially in the high tech sectors. If anything I think that there is alot of contributors within the college and universities to the tech sectors.

There will always be people who are happy to stay within the crowd and do a 9-5 to punch time. But if you look around the startup arena in Dublin and across the country you would be amazed at the level of entrepreneurship being displayed.

Nika Bolokov

I suppose its comparing the culture in Ireland to that in other countries where starting out on your own is much more common.

There are definitely entrepreneurs in Ireland but the businesses are in general small, rarely scale and the ' my son the barrister' culture is deeply ingrained in that people choose to study 'respectable' subjects that give a 'respectable' career rather than follow their interests and take risks.

Peterdalkey

The article and the OP's view are interesting but are not at all complete and there are many other factors that could be argued with equal conviction. For instance, scale is a massive issue in Ireland, we have such a tiny domestic market that many new enterprises can never reach the scale of operation in their home market to generate a solid business base/volume/revenue/profitability to enable them to invest in serious product development and export markets.
If you look at the entrepreneurial Diaspora, there are lots of examples of huge Irish entrepreneurial success abroad and to my eye, way above average for the size of our population. The reality is that many have to take their game elsewhere to make it happen.
We do have a significant start-up community based in university incubator units, the Digital Hub, Media Cube, Malt House Design Centre, local enterprise clusters etc etc. The popularity of the subject as instanced by both competition to take part in, and viewer numbers of programmes such as Dragons Den are encouraging. The biggest challenge is to be able to achieve sufficient scale to take opportunities to the big markets. The problem of scale also impacts on the size of funding available domestically, small market equates to small funding lot sizes, further hampering growth prospects.
Education is the ultimate investment in the long game and any, even cursory, look at the educational background of successful entrepreneurs will show a massively diverse range including teaching, accounting, engineering, bio-pharma, and plenty of other allegedly vocational training /education histories. Risk takers come from all walks of life, education is certainly not the defining characteristic, but it is a huge benefit and resource on the road to success, in my view..

jmcc

One of the biggest mistakes that a lot of academics and journalists make is in thinking that entrepreneurs are just risk takers. Everything that an entrepreneur does is geared towards reducing the level of risk in a venture.

Having a good education is an advantage but there has definitely been an emphasis on the Arts at the expense of STEM in Irish education. For about fifteen years or so there has been some kind of theory that it is possible to turn lifetime academics and employees into entrepreneurs. The government has, with EI and IDA, been pushing these conversion courses. They have had some sucesses but they have also probably had a very high failure rate. The problem is that most of these lifers have not got what it takes to be an entrepreneur. They cannot live with the high level of uncertainty that entrepreneurship involves. Some of that is down to the financial aspect - they may have families to support and mortgages to pay. However there is a psychological aspect in that entrepreneurs tend to be highly self-reliant and able to do what it takes to survive. They are the Special Forces of the business world in that respect.

There is a cultural element to the way that some people are anti-entrepreneurial but the reality is that it may also be a statistical thing. Ireland has a relatively small population. People look at Silicon Valley and think that Ireland should have a similar entrepreneurial setup while ignoring the difference in populations. People expect Google or Amazon levels of success without realising that these are global businesses.

As Peterdalkey said above, the Irish market is small. However success has a way of creating its own momentum. But there is a very high attrition rate. That attrition rate is the thing that many people encounter and never get over. They cannot deal with failure because they care too much about what others think. Failure in entrepreneurship is a possibility and you've got to be able to live with that. Most people are not and so they seek refuge in the safety of employment.

Regards...jmcc

Peterdalkey

This is an interesting topic that, sadly, does not seem to have caught the interest of too many on here. I have always struggled with the use of the very word entrepreneur, not for the meaning of it's dictionary definition but rather by it's colloquial use as a broad spectrum catchall. In general, I would prefer the term owner manager, but it is probably easiest to stick with the term, as it has become as eponymous as “Hoover” .

Entrepreneurs are not at all a homogenous group and are composed of so many differing backgrounds, diverse educational paths and motivations. They include the unemployable, involuntary entrepreneurs, serial entrepreneurs, inheritors etc etc. Some are great ideas people and thrive on the start up/growth phase but are not cut out for the grind of day to day management. Many business careers are as a result of the loss of employment and those people use their acquired knowledge and skills to create a new business. The growth in technology graduates have created a new class of those who may never work in a “job”. The scope and scale of the Web, availability of seed and venture capital etc have created opportunities and markets that simply did not exist in the past.

Risk is indeed a common component for those who start/own/run their own business and we all have different levels tolerance to the amount we are prepared to take on personally. Some like to share it and have partners in ownership others are solo players. Optimists and pessimists have a completely different view of the same exposure. I nearly 35 years in business on my own account, I have never met anyone who did not care about the risks that they were taking in the business activities and most seemed to take what they viewed as sensible measures to protect themselves and their families. That the passage of time may not have proved them correct is not the issue.

Luck, fortunate opportunity or just good timing are very real factors in the success or failure for many who set out on their own in business, the differentiator is what you do with it. Many new businesses start out in field and end up in a completely different sector, it is a very common characteristic in the normal career paths of non-business people too.

I am sure I am not alone in knowing owners of hugely successful businesses who have very little high level education and also may others who have achieved very lofty academic honours. I just do not buy into the notion that education has a negative impact on the enterprising nature of people, to contend so, is to fail to understand the nature of the beast in the first place.

I think there are much different fundamentals in life that determine whether people become or can deal with being an entrepreneur and the risks it involves, then education.

My parents told me they always encouraged me when I was a kid to have ideas, and not be too heavy with rules, not downing me and so on. Lots of praise and things like that. My old man thinks this is what gave me so much confidence, and he may well be right. I've always had the confidence to take on risk, and even find it exciting to do so, having the belief that if I fail that I can start again, or do something else no problem. In the many businesses I have started a couple of them have failed, and I see them as merely blips in the road, but they didn't dent my confidence, only reinforced it after I had learned from a few mistakes.

A less confident person, may shy away from risk. A good friend of mine said to me before that he was concerned with how people would think of him if he started something and failed. Thats something I've never even given second though to really. I see self consciousness and confidence as one and the same for the most part


I think people with more self confidence have less fear in general about taking risks, dealing with pressure situations (that they can work their way out of it), and the general self belief that has you thinking you can achieve whatever you want.

Of course self confidence can be affected by so many things when your a kid, positively and negatively but I would think education would be fairly low on the ladder of things that influence someone to be an entrepreneur or not.

lucky john

This is an interesting topic and one that is going to gain in relevance to this country over the next decade I delieve.

No doubt, a business person/entrepreneur is seen as a risk taker. However as we have seen world wide in recent years it is now also risky to depend on someone else for employment. Gone are the days when a factory here will require 1000's to work on production lines. Automation is now the name of the game. Just look around your every day life. How long do you think it will be before there won't be a checkout girl in tesco? Will there be any need for a printer in the news paper business in 10 years? How many will work in dvd rental or record shops?

As a young lad on the farm making hay and saving it was a job that kept at least 5 busy for a couple of weeks with just 15 acres to do. My neighbour on his own just saved 30 acres and worked as an agri sales man full time as well last week.

This change has been going along quietly for the last while but modern tec is now speeding the process up. While education is undoubtedly a huge advantage in making a good living, the chances are the job some are doing is hastening the end of a job for others.

I think it is vital that a country like this gets ahead of the game fast. A small home market is no longer a hinderence. There is a huge world market easily reached these days. To be honest the phone in your pocket can be an entire office now. Advertising, marketing, market research, customer relationship, accounts, banking, traveling arrangement .....

What we need is a system that encourages more to take the jump and open their minds to the opportunities around them evey day. I'm not sure our education system going to do this though. There is an appetite for it. Look at the phenomenon of coderdojo. How to encourage and mentor more entrepreneurs is the question.

Lobby Con Shine

Peterdalkey wrote: »

I just do not buy into the notion that education has a negative impact on the enterprising nature of people, to contend so, is to fail to understand the nature of the beast in the first place.

That's a straw man argument, Peter. No-one suggested such a thing.

The article, rightly, suggests that a historical analysis of the education system shows why people opt to play it safe and I entirely agree. Education itself doesn't cause it but rather the system we have developed.

For example, my parents were big into education and there was never any question but that I would go to third level. I did that and went on further so that I was in my mid-twenties by the time I could tie my own shoelaces. By the time the education system spat me out at the other end, I was then pigeonholed into my chosen field. The pay was good and I soon had a mortgage. In my experience, when a mortgage comes in the door, entrepreneurship and risk taking goes out the window, particularly for professionals in their mid to late twenties who are making decent salaries and enjoying the weekends with brass in pocket.

I am now self employed and have two people working for me. In reality, I would much rather have set up a business in the small town in the west where I grew up which would employ people and help keep the place from disintegrating as has happened. There is something honourable, I think, in opening a business like a factory which would give people the opportunity to stay at home. If you get it right, the rewards can be exponentially greater (not just money) than sitting in an office pushing paper around.

In my view, my story is all too common. The opportunity for proper, full on risk taking is a window of just a few years when you finish your education. If you take the standard route, then your time has probably passed.

Gloomtastic!

In our secondary school, each year had four classes -
A1 - very clever kids, higher level every subject.
A2 - cleverer than normal
B1 & B2 - the remainder split alphabetically.

They used to say that those in the A1 classes would end up being employed by those in the B's.......

lucky john

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

That's a straw man argument, Peter. No-one suggested such a thing

The article, rightly, suggests that a historical analysis of the education system shows why people opt to play it safe and I entirely agree. Education itself doesn't cause it but rather the system we have developed.

For example, my parents were big into education and there was never any question but that I would go to third level. I did that and went on further so that I was in my mid-twenties by the time I could tie my own shoelaces. By the time the education system spat me out at the other end, I was then pigeonholed into my chosen field. The pay was good and I soon had a mortgage. In my experience, when a mortgage comes in the door, entrepreneurship and risk taking goes out the window, particularly for professionals in their mid to late twenties who are making decent salaries and enjoying the weekends with brass in pocket.

I am now self employed and have two people working for me. In reality, I would much rather have set up a business in the small town in the west where I grew up which would employ people and
help keep the place from disintegrating as has happened. There is something honourable, I think, in opening a business like a factory which would give people the opportunity to stay at home. If you get it right, the rewards can be exponentially greater (not just money) than sitting in an office pushing paper around.

In my view, my story is all too common. The opportunity for proper, full on risk taking is a window of just a few years when you finish your education. If you take the standard route, then your time has probably passed.

For the most part the education system was developed for a different time. It was there to spit out future employees for various industries. The future bosses didn't actually to the standard schools. They went private for the most part. These were the 20% with all the wealth. The rest of us were just the 80% kept in our places by a type of production line process designed to styfile individualism.

The funny thing is, as kids came out of the system and became parents themselves they inturn reinforced the system by telling their kids to work hard at school and get a good job. Has the 20...80 rule changed much in the last 100 years I wounder? What's also interesting is the point I made earlier about farming. Farmers were the first to see the righting on the wall for employment in their way of life in the 50s and 60s. They pushed their kids through education and in many cases these kids are now our civil service. The kids of the general population for the most part ended up as the blue collar workers of the past 40 years.

What happens now though? The building boom soaked up a lot of people that should have ended up as blue collar. It masked the decline in factory jobs. Not much demand for civil servants now either. Yet the education conveyor belt keeps turning out more graduates. For what? Times are completely different now but has the education system recognised this. Why is french the language of choice for most secondry schools. There are loads of jobs for kids with all kind of languages but we spit out thousands with bad french. Kids are though how to email dueing the few minutes of computer classes they have per week. How about teaching them how to build apps and code. Again loads of jobs there plus huge opportunities to set up a business that is open to the world and can be ran from a bedroom.

I'm not that long on this forum but there seems to be alot of new posters asking for advice on starting out on their own lately. What surprises me is how little they actually know about business. They have an idea but the next step is beyond them. Now more than ever learning on the job is not possible. Some kind of tools are needed. Maybe then the "startup culture" the OP talked about might be possible.

Sorry this post is way to long and its too late to start editing now.

Peterdalkey

Schooling is only a part of the overall education process, I believe that we also evolve our real education, values and ambitions from our wider social environment and in many cases, our families, friends and work colleagues. The single greatest cause of poverty and deprevation is the lack of education, the key is to use it to achive what it is you want for you and yours.

lucky john

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Schooling is only a part of the overall education process, I believe that we also evolve our real education, values and ambitions from our wider social environment and in many cases, our families, friends and work colleagues. The single greatest cause of poverty and deprevation is the lack of education, the key is to use it to achive what it is you want for you and yours.

Very true. Especially the family and peer influence. Thats why plenty of kids end up in the same profession or job as their parents. Its also why kids of unemployed parents end up unemployed.

Poverty because of lack of education is not really the problem in this country though. Education to leaving cert level is available to everyone. Again its the outside influence that dictates how they engage with learning. I personally know the efforts teachers and schools go through to do their best for even the least interested or intelligent kids. Unfortunately the system still demands kids like this follow the same course as everyone else. What i am trying to say is, what's the point of teaching a disinterested kid history or geography. Would they be better off with double metal work or double art instead. Who knows they could be fantastic graphic designers but not know the shannon is irelands longest river.

As an extreme example take the late Steve Jobs. When he went to university in the US he never went to any of the lectures he actually was ment to go to. Instead he went from room to room and only stayed in the ones that spiked his interest.
Anyone with kids will know they have subject the get great marks in and other they hate and so get crap marks in. Why force kid to waste time in thoes subjects? Because that's the system????

libnation

This has been keeping me up at night for 2 years. It's almost like a lightbulb went off in my head after a holiday 2 years ago and I felt like society has been punishing me with exams and a morbidly depressing accounting career for being academically bright in school.

I feel like free college education has led me down a path I never really wanted to be on.

What is the Irish obsession with exams, qualifications, a secure job and a mortgage just so we can raise more kids to believe this. Alcohol abuse is a form of escapism from this grim reality because I believe there is a whole generation of adults who's brains are depleted at this stage. It's far too grim.

Peterdalkey

libnation wrote: »

This has been keeping me up at night for 2 years. It's almost like a lightbulb went off in my head after a holiday 2 years ago and I felt like society has been punishing me with exams and a morbidly depressing accounting career for being academically bright in school.

I feel like free college education has led me down a path I never really wanted to be on.

What is the Irish obsession with exams, qualifications, a secure job and a mortgage just so we can raise more kids to believe this. Alcohol abuse is a form of escapism from this grim reality because I believe there is a whole generation of adults who's brains are depleted at this stage. It's far too grim.

It is horrific that the State would perpetrate such a fate upon you. Would a Special Redress Board help at all?

lucky john

Peterdalkey wrote: »

It is horrific that the State would perpetrate such a fate upon you. Would a Special Redress Board help at all?

:D:D:D

GabbyJay

Entrepreneurs in Ireland have a fantastic infrastructure and very soft cushions that they can avail of to help them get going; I can't think of any other countries where it is so easy to leave your job behind and start a business. In fact, I think it is too easy. I see a lot of government money, EI money, etc., going into ideas that are very weak; entrepreneurs that are not interested in turning a profit, but merely in obtaining funds that can then be bled dry over the course of a few years.

The structure that exists in Ireland to support entrepreneurs is built to support you in taking the leap, and then keeping the wolves from the door while you find your feet. However, in my opinion, the wolves clawing at your door is exactly what is needed in order for real entrepreneurship to emerge. If you're too comfortable, you don't need to innovate or really push for sales. Real entrepreneurship is about stepping outside the comfort zone, testing the limits, trying new things, and most importantly, about scrambling when you need to scramble.

In Ireland, the life is very comfortable. We used to top the charts. Now even despite the down turn we're still way up there. Social welfare is still cushy. There's a lot of hand-holding. I don't think that Irish education system does anything to stifle the entrepreneurial spirit. At the same time, neither does it do anything to encourage it, as far as I can see. Culturally, as much as it pains me, I don't believe that Irish people are particularly enterprising. I'm open to debate on that one. I do see a lot of the job for life / civil service / "my son the barrister" ideas that some people mentioned, and our standards are set quite low in that regard.

In the US, I still see the American Dream ideology, respect for the self-made man. I see rich kids from billionaire families who desperately try to follow in their daddy's footsteps, but to do it on their own (without simply inheriting the empire). Many times the father will give the son a once-off helping hand, say "here's $500k now you're on your own" and let the guy try and make his own way. There is a huge desire to "succeed" (whatever that might mean) in America.

In some countries in Asia, I see lots and lots of small time entrepreneurs - people working full time jobs who run a little shop on Facebook selling clothes, or dabbling in import / export, or having shares in a coffee shop. Not necessarily because they need the money, but because of an entrepreneurial spirit.

When we talk about high tech entrepreneurs, do not think about the likes of Google and Facebook. Why not compare Ireland with Israel or even Estonia - a country less than a third of the size of Ireland but with a real entrepreneurial spirit. We do have the infrastructure, we have the raw materials, but I feel that we're more inclined to seek mediocrity and leech from the system rather than really try to set the world alight. About the universities and research institutes; yes we are strong in research in some areas... pharma, agricultural science, food science... but not proportionately strong in commercializing this research. The universities and government can do a lot more in this regard, although they are improving. There is a lot of IP in Ireland and we should do more to promote this to the private sector, encourage companies to lease or buy the IP that we have and commercialize it.

In high tech sector I honestly feel that we are quite weak. Consider some eastern European countries... Hungary, Romania, Lithuania, Belarus, Russia, look at the incredible tech minds that come from these countries. These are countries who respect "the nerd". Computer Science, Mathematicians can become celebrities in those countries. Chess players are like sportsmen. Here in Ireland, we elevate the guys who open a chain of car dealerships. This is not a population issue. Our population is big enough. Look back at Estonia: we are three times their size. I believe it is related to inspiration. What is it that is inspiring the 12 year olds of Ireland today?

jmcc

Cutting the Leaving Cert/first year business studies promo for EI, this point stood out:

GabbyJay wrote: »

Social welfare is still cushy.

There is no real social welfare support for entrepreneurs who don't survive in business. If you are PAYE or a useless politician/school teacher you get taken care of but because company owners are on a different tax, they don't have the same protection as PAYE workers and the perpetually unemployed.

Regards...jmcc

GabbyJay

jmcc wrote: »

Cutting the Leaving Cert/first year business studies promo for EI

What do you mean by that?

jmcc

GabbyJay wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

Everyone seems to think it is easy to be an entrepreneur in Ireland but the reality is a lot tougher than people think. Unless EI (Enterprise Ireland) has changed dramatically, there is a lot of paperwork and meetings to go through even for the most basic of grants or services. The term that some real entrepreneurs use for the EI process is 'grantfare'. To survive in Ireland as an entrepreneur, you have to develop a healthy cynicism for the kind of marketing fluff that gives a false impression of the reality of surving in business. The system itself is geared against entrepreneurship. If one fails in business, as a company owner or entrepreneur, then the social welfare that is available to PAYE and the perpetual jobless is not available because company owners and the self-employed are on a different tax rate and cannot pay the usual PAYE taxes. The flawed education system is geared towards producing too many pondscum intellected schoolteacher/politicians, lawyers, auctioneers and too few STEM graduates and entrepreneurs. It is very much against any form of entrepreneurship because at the heart of entrepreneurship is the willingness to question and change the status quo.

Are you an entrepreneur?

Regards...jmcc

GabbyJay

jmcc wrote: »

Everyone seems to think it is easy to be an entrepreneur in Ireland but the reality is a lot tougher than people think. Unless EI (Enterprise Ireland) has changed dramatically, there is a lot of paperwork and meetings to go through even for the most basic of grants or services. The term that some real entrepreneurs use for the EI process is 'grantfare'. To survive in Ireland as an entrepreneur, you have to develop a healthy cynicism for the kind of marketing fluff that gives a false impression of the reality of surving in business. The system itself is geared against entrepreneurship. If one fails in business, as a company owner or entrepreneur, then the social welfare that is available to PAYE and the perpetual jobless is not available because company owners and the self-employed are on a different tax rate and cannot pay the usual PAYE taxes. The flawed education system is geared towards producing too many pondscum intellected schoolteacher/politicians, lawyers, auctioneers and too few STEM graduates and entrepreneurs. It is very much against any form of entrepreneurship because at the heart of entrepreneurship is the willingness to question and change the status quo.

Are you an entrepreneur?

Regards...jmcc

Yes I am as it happens... I got a decent feasibility study grant from EI that allowed me to leave my job and go out on my own (which I wouldn't have got in other countries). Later I got a sizable investment from EI with terms that no VC in the world would ever give you. They asked for very little in return. Now 5 years later my business is still growing and I employ 150 people and this would never have happened if the path had not been paved by the structures that exist in Ireland.

This is by no means "leaving cert business studies promo for EI", it is my actual experience as a founder and CEO of several companies. If you have an issue with something that I say, by all means please feel free to debate it, but there's no need for you to make a fool of yourself with these patronising assumptions.

lucky john

GabbyJay wrote: »

Entrepreneurs in Ireland have a fantastic infrastructure and very soft cushions that they can avail of to help them get going; I can't think of any other countries where it is so easy to leave your job behind and start a business. In fact, I think it is too easy. I see a lot of government money, EI money, etc., going into ideas that are very weak; entrepreneurs that are not interested in turning a profit, but merely in obtaining funds that can then be bled dry over the course of a few years.

The structure that exists in Ireland to support entrepreneurs is built to support you in taking the leap, and then keeping the wolves from the door while you find your feet. However, in my opinion, the wolves clawing at your door is exactly what is needed in order for real entrepreneurship to emerge. If you're too comfortable, you don't need to innovate or really push for sales. Real entrepreneurship is about stepping outside the comfort zone, testing the limits, trying new things, and most importantly, about scrambling when you need to scramble.
In Ireland, the life is very comfortable. We used to top the charts. Now even despite the down turn we're still way up there. Social welfare is still cushy. There's a lot of hand-holding. I don't think that Irish education system does anything to stifle the entrepreneurial spirit. At the same time, neither does it do anything to encourage it, as far as I can see. Culturally, as much as it pains me, I don't believe that Irish people are particularly enterprising. I'm open to debate on that one. I do see a lot of the job for life / civil service / "my son the barrister" ideas that some people mentioned, and our standards are set quite low in that regard.

In the US, I still see the American Dream ideology, respect for the self-made man. I see rich kids from billionaire families who desperately try to follow in their daddy's footsteps, but to do it on their own (without simply inheriting the empire). Many times the father will give the son a once-off helping hand, say "here's $500k now you're on your own" and let the guy try and make his own way. There is a huge desire to "succeed" (whatever that might mean) in America.

In some countries in Asia, I see lots and lots of small time entrepreneurs - people working full time jobs who run a little shop on Facebook selling clothes, or dabbling in import / export, or having shares in a coffee shop. Not necessarily because they need the money, but because of an entrepreneurial spirit.

When we talk about high tech entrepreneurs, do not think about the likes of Google and Facebook. Why not compare Ireland with Israel or even Estonia - a country less than a third of the size of Ireland but with a real entrepreneurial spirit. We do have the infrastructure, we have the raw materials, but I feel that we're more inclined to seek mediocrity and leech from the system rather than really try to set the world alight. About the universities and research institutes; yes we are strong in research in some areas... pharma, agricultural science, food science... but not proportionately strong in commercializing this research. The universities and government can do a lot more in this regard, although they are improving. There is a lot of IP in Ireland and we should do more to promote this to the private sector, encourage companies to lease or buy the IP that we have and commercialize it.

In high tech sector I honestly feel that we are quite weak. Consider some eastern European countries... Hungary, Romania, Lithuania, Belarus, Russia, look at the incredible tech minds that come from these countries. These are countries who respect "the nerd". Computer Science, Mathematicians can become celebrities in those countries. Chess players are like sportsmen. Here in Ireland, we elevate the guys who open a chain of car dealerships. This is not a population issue. Our population is big enough. Look back at Estonia: we are three times their size. I believe it is related to inspiration. What is it that is inspiring the 12 year olds of Ireland today?

GabbyJay I don't understand your posts. In the post above you elevate and applaud several countries above Ireland for their entrepreneurial spirit. Yet in your last post you seem to be blaming the system here that fostered your entrepreneurial spirit and led to your success.

I know a lot of potential business projects that were shot down by EI for various reasons. Some of these people are still struggling on and some have found other routes to building their business. I actually don't know any that gave up. EI obviously saw the potential in your proposal. You made a fantastic success of it with their help yet you seem to think they made it too easy for you.

If EI Had said no, would you have given up or would you have kept going and maybe set up in eastern Europe?

GabbyJay

lucky john wrote: »

GabbyJay I don't understand your posts. In the post above you elevate and applaud several countries above Ireland for their entrepreneurial spirit. Yet in your last post you seem to be blaming the system here that fostered your entrepreneurial spirit and led to your success.

I know a lot of potential business projects that were shot down by EI for various reasons. Some of these people are still struggling on and some have found other routes to building their business. I actually don't know any that gave up. EI obviously saw the potential in your proposal. You made a fantastic success of it with their help yet you seem to think they made it too easy for you.

If EI Had said no, would you have given up or would you have kept going and maybe set up in eastern Europe?

I have mixed views on it... there's a lot of things that make it very easy for the individual, there are a lot of things that could be improved. For the individual, I think that having it easy is not always the best thing. Just my opinion, but I think that you can get caught in a downward spiral of mentoring and incubation and programs that don't actually require you to start banging on doors and getting invoices paid.