Meeting teaching councils criteria

snooples17

Hi guys,

So Im looking at becoming a secondary teacher. I have a degree in Physics and was hoping to teach Maths, Applied Maths and Physics.

However my degree isnt on their list, Iv been in contact with the teaching council and just getting fairly generic answers over again. Iv sent my transcripts and they said im fine for Physics but will have to apply for assesment for Maths and applied maths.
Now its 200e for the first subject and 100e for the second subject. IS this really the only thing I can do to become a teacher. It seems like such an odd process that I have to pay them to asses wether my degree is ok for teaching. I also havent applied for any PDE so what if i forked out 300e and didnt even get accepted.

Now if this is the only way I can become a teacher I was wondering if anyone could advise me wether I would meet the critera, I have 47 credits in Maths over the first 3 years and you need 54 but I was thinking surely I could argue there is a cross over with Physics and Maths. I also did a problem solving module worth 6 credits which Im hoping might count.

Iv been informed that if I dont meet the critera Il have to do something extra to get the credits. Can anyone advise me on this, would it be a module I could do in the evenings while doing a PDE.


Any help would be great as I cant get any straight answers from the teaching coucil or hibernia

RealJohn

Officially you'll have to get yourself up to the 54 credits and I can't imagine they'll entertain your physics/maths crossover idea (and loathe as I am to admit it, they'd be right not to. It'd just open them up to every chancer trying to talk them into it). The good news is that there are plenty of options to top up your maths these days between the various upskilling courses and the OU.

The other good news is that physics teachers tend to be harder to come by than most other subjects so having that as your only recognised subject isn't a disaster. The fact is if you can get into a school as a physics teacher, the likelihood is they'll be perfectly happy to let you teach maths and applied maths too. Obviously you won't get any jobs that are specifically looking for a maths teacher if the TC won't recognise you as one but you might get away with applied maths, again because I imagine that there aren't an awful lot of them out there.

snooples17

Thanks for the reply, it was really helpful!
I didnt realise that Id actually be allowed teach maths at all without the TC approval, so is it that technicaly you can but no one will hire you. So it is very interesting that I could go ahead with just Physics recognised and try and get extra classes in Maths. I could teach LC Maths in my sleep which is why Im a little bit frustrated with the process!

I went to an all girls school and there were maybe only 8 classes a week in Physics which is why I was so keen to get an extra subject as I thought Id never find a school with many Physics classes. I actually havent looked into current demand too much so I probably should do that, Il be happy enough to go to the UK anyway if neccesary.

Do you have any idea if I did apply for assesment but got refused and went on to do an upskilling course would I have to pay to reapply all over again

Thanks again for the help

mtoutlemonde

snooples17 wrote: »

Do you have any idea if I did apply for assesment but got refused and went on to do an upskilling course would I have to pay to reapply all over again

I know someone who had their qualifications assessed and were given a information sheet (? don't know what else to call it), they completed the shortfalls listed, returned the letter and the transcript showing completion. Their registration was updated straight away and as far as I know, they didn't have to pay for re-assessment as this had been carried out already. It's better to get the assessment done prior to studying again so you know exactly how many credits are required - I didn't do it that way and this held up my registration (for the specific subject I had shortfall in [was already registered]) for a few months.

snooples17

Ok brilliant thanks for that, glad I wouldnt have to pay twice.

If i do get refused it wont be more than one semester worth of credits, as I wont be off by more than 7 credits. do you know anywhere that would offer this amount of credits.
I looked at OU but they only seem to offer degrees and diplomas and the cheapest is £5000 which is probably way more credits than I need and way more money than its worth!

mtoutlemonde

snooples17 wrote: »

Ok brilliant thanks for that, glad I wouldnt have to pay twice.

If i do get refused it wont be more than one semester worth of credits, as I wont be off by more than 7 credits. do you know anywhere that would offer this amount of credits.
I looked at OU but they only seem to offer degrees and diplomas and the cheapest is £5000 which is probably way more credits than I need and way more money than its worth!

As well as the 54 credits you have to meet their subject specific requirements (http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/_fileupload/Registration/General_and_Special_Requirements_for_Degree_Recognition_June2011%2053901607.pdf)
like you did for physics. As another poster said, if you were to find work in a school, you probably would be asked to teach maths aswell. If you get a job there is a course run by the department of education with UL for upskilling teachers of maths with shortfalls and its free. The only requirement for it is that you are teaching at least one class of maths per week. I've also heard that the course is quite demanding.

RealJohn

snooples17 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, it was really helpful!
I didnt realise that Id actually be allowed teach maths at all without the TC approval, so is it that technicaly you can but no one will hire you. So it is very interesting that I could go ahead with just Physics recognised and try and get extra classes in Maths. I could teach LC Maths in my sleep which is why Im a little bit frustrated with the process!

Not exactly. Technically you can't. In practice, you'll probably be asked to, especially if you point out how much maths you have in your degree (and mention that the problem solving module you mentioned would be very appropriate for 'project maths' *eyerollingsmiley* ).
Also, don't forget that being qualified to teach any leaving cert science subject also qualifies you to teach junior cert science. I can't imagine you'll get more than two physics classes (probably 8 class periods a week between them) but science is compulsory to junior cert in most schools these days and an opinion in most of the rest. Make sure you brush up on your chemistry and biology.

snooples17

Thanks guys, really appreciate the answers. The reason Im so anxious to figure it out is iv been offered a masters in engineering for sep but have decided its not really for me but my parents are kind of set up for me to go as I already deferred it last year and I dont want to turn it down and end up with no other options!

I saw the upskilling course alright, I thought it would be perfect for me until I realised you already had to be a teacher, but annoying they arent encouraging new applicants but at least its an option for the future. Im sure it wouldnt be too hard for me as the Maths I did in 3rd year of my course was with the final year engineers and they are qualifed to do maths and applied maths. Its a pity they are so strict on the credits.

I totally forgot about Junior Cert Science, that definately gives me more options, chemistry will be fine but the thought of looking over Biology again *shudder*

rainbowtrout

snooples17 wrote: »

Ok brilliant thanks for that, glad I wouldnt have to pay twice.

If i do get refused it wont be more than one semester worth of credits, as I wont be off by more than 7 credits. do you know anywhere that would offer this amount of credits.
I looked at OU but they only seem to offer degrees and diplomas and the cheapest is £5000 which is probably way more credits than I need and way more money than its worth!

Not true. You can do individual modules with OU and the Teaching Council have a specific list of modules in maths that are acceptable for top up. Given the number of credits you already have you would probably only have to do one I'd imagine.

On the money side of things, perhaps you're forgetting the cost of a degree in this country is no more different from the UK only you got it for free when you did your undergrad. You want to do anything extra including OU, you're going to have to pay for it. You'll be able to do the maths requirements for in and around €1200 I'd imagine with OU.

I did OU maths and I had less maths credits than you and I'm fully registered for maths with the TC. I have a thread on it somewhere, if you do a search for 'getting maths qualifications' I'm sure it will come up.

snooples17

1200 to top up my maths, well there isnt a hope in hell I can afford that on top of the PDE and paying for my assesment by the TC.
If thats my only option then I think Il just stick with Physics and Science and just do the free maths top up when Im qualifed

TheBody

snooples17 wrote: »

1200 to top up my maths, well there isnt a hope in hell I can afford that on top of the PDE and paying for my assesment by the TC.
If thats my only option then I think Il just stick with Physics and Science and just do the free maths top up when Im qualifed

I don't know how feasible it is for you but you could contact the university you did your degree in to try do the modules you need to get qualified. For example, I have an honours degree in theoretical physics. The idiots good people in the teaching council say I'm 10 credits short to teach physics. I went to the college where I did my degree and they said I could register for just 2 modules to make up the 10 credits. The cost is around €400 per module plus €90 admin fee.

snooples17

Seems mad that you have a degree in Physics yet your not allowed teach it! Thats really bizarre.

I was thinking that wherever I end up doing my PDE I might be able to take up the extra credits along side doing it but I dunno how feasible this would be and agin it would really depend on by how much credits the TC reject me by and how many modules Id have to take!

Moody_mona

snooples17 wrote: »

1200 to top up my maths, well there isnt a hope in hell I can afford that on top of the PDE and paying for my assesment by the TC.
If thats my only option then I think Il just stick with Physics and Science and just do the free maths top up when Im qualifed

Just check how long they plan on offering that upskilling. It may not be around when you've finished your PDE.

snooples17

Good point!

Im going to go ahead and fill out the assesment for Maths anyway and see what the TC say to me and go from there

DeeDee89

Do apply for the PDE and even if you don't have enough credits for Maths, you would probably only have to do one module in it to be recognised... Although I would research the job market as there is nothing out there in Ireland, even for physics and maths!

snooples17

Will do! Il probably do the hibernia one so hopefulyl will have plenty of time to do the extra module!

Realistically it will be april or next October before I start so wont be qualified for 3 years so hopefully job market will have picked up a bit by then but if not Im more than happy to go abroad!

Safety

Hi Peeps.
Just looking for advice.
I got my degree assessed by the teaching council and they have wrote back saying I need to complete 3 chemistry
modules before I am eligible to apply for the H-Dip (I hadn't enough credits).
Currently I am working 9 to 5 so just wondering what would be the best route to complete 3 chemistry modules?
Can it be done in the evening?
Thanks

rainbowtrout

Safety wrote: »

Hi Peeps.
Just looking for advice.
I got my degree assessed by the teaching council and they have wrote back saying I need to complete 3 chemistry
modules before I am eligible to apply for the H-Dip (I hadn't enough credits).
Currently I am working 9 to 5 so just wondering what would be the best route to complete 3 chemistry modules?
Can it be done in the evening?
Thanks

It would depend on the topics they want you to cover and what modules would meet this requirement. If colleges offering these modules require you to attend for labs then you'll have to make arrangements to attend.

evolving_doors

TheBody wrote: »

..... I went to the college where I did my degree and they said I could register for just 2 modules to make up the 10 credits. The cost is around €400 per module plus €90 admin fee.

I'd second that...it's worth making a few calls, had a friend who needed to have a few extra maths modules (after negotiations with TC) so he rang UCC and they let him attend some of the modules...that was about 5 years ago though! Worth a try....

murphya14

Hi guys,

I am a Finance graduate but I didn't do any maths in my course so I am looking to get qualified through the OU while doing the PME.

From what I have gathered I could qualify doing (1) Essential Maths 1 (MST124), (2) Essential Maths 2 (MST125), (3) Introducing Statistics (M140)and (4) M208 Pure Mathematics.

However when I looked to confirm this with the teaching council I received this reply;

In order to qualify for Mathematics you will need to complete at least 10 credits of Mathematics at undergraduate degree level of the following core areas (1) Analysis (2) Algebra (3) Geometry (4) Probability & Statistics. This may be completed at a recognised University such as one of the National Universities of Ireland or you may be able to complete it through the Open University.



AND

· Successfully complete the following four modules with the Open University, (1) Essential Maths 1 (MST124), (2) Essential Maths 2 (MST125), (3) Introducing Statistics (M140)and (4) M208 Pure Mathematics.



OR



To complete at least 10 credits of Mathematics at undergraduate degree level of the following core areas (1) Analysis (2) Algebra (3) Geometry (4) Probability & Statistics. This may be complete at a recognised University such as one of the National Universities of Ireland or you may be able to complete it through the Open University.



AND



A Higher Diploma in Mathematics / Mathematical Studies at one of the National Universities of Ireland




So basically, I am very confused as all the 'undergraduate' modules seem to be covered in the OU, can anyone shed any light on this????

Really appreciate the help!

evolving_doors

theres a good few threads here on maths and the tc.. however its probably best to go with their specified criteria.... however .. the second option above of 10credits+pme seems a little low ! (i think its usually about 55credits )..

id say you need to get back onto them.. they might have assumed your finance course had a maths content!(did they ask for transcripts or just the name of the degree?)..

Maybe someone else can shed some light but it sounds as if you need to ring em again , anything said on here can be overruled by the TC ..

shenanagans

I think you need 60 credits for maths.

murphya14

Yes they saw my transcripts, so they no I have no maths, but I think the H.dip in maths is separate from the PME ( nothing to do with education just pure maths.) So it would be worth 60 credits. And then after that I would need to the PME.

With the 4 modules from the OU, I can complete 60 credits (which I was hoping to do during the PME.)

What they seem to be saying is I would have to complete the OU modules (60 credits) as well as 'at least 10 credits of Mathematics at undergraduate degree level of the following core areas (1) Analysis (2) Algebra (3) Geometry (4) Probability & Statistics. This may be completed at a recognised University such as one of the National Universities of Ireland or you may be able to complete it through the Open University.' = 40 credits

However, a lot of these are covered in the OU modules, do you think they are looking for 100 credits ???

Considering cost and time they are making it impossible if this is the case!

shenanagans

it's just 60 credits in maths and then you need an education qualification. there is a course in UL but it's not OU

murphya14

Thanks for the info but I think you have to be a qualified teacher before you can take that course.

Got a bit of clarity today though;

I can do (1) Essential Maths 1 (MST124), (2) Essential Maths 2 (MST125), (3) Introducing Statistics (M140)and (4) M208 Pure Mathematics with the OU.

Along with this I need to 'complete at least 10 credits from one or more of the following areas :



(1) Analysis (2) Algebra (3) Geometry (4) Probability & Statistics.



Therefore for example if you have 10 credits of Algebra that would be fine or even if you were doing 5 credits of Statistics and 5 credits of Geometry that would also be fine.'

I am waiting to find out from the OU if the necessary 10 credits are in the four modules (which already gives me 75 credits) because I don't know if the Introducing Statistics (M140) is really necessary.