[feedback wanted] Airsoft on adverts.ie

Steve

Howdy folks.

Currently, airsoft stuff is not allowed on adverts.ie but the folks in the big ivory tower are looking to change that.

It boils down to they are going to allow anything airsoft with the exception of guns.

They are also proposing to give an incentive (in terms of site credit for a free bump) to anyone here that also lists the item on advert.ie.

Nothing is agreed yet and we'd really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

For full disclosure, I'm also a mod on adverts.ie but as far as here is concerned I am 100% going to act in the best interests of airsoft adverts.

Thanks,
Steve.

se conman

May be a silly question but how will that fit in with the charter of not offering items for sale on other sites aswell as airsoft adverts?

Eoghan S

I think that's a great idea
So there will be a token, which can be used as a bump?
Sounds good to me!

ShadowFox

I hope they get mods in that know about airsoft because the amount of people trying to rip you off charging double what the item is worth its worse than facebook

they already allow the sale of vest and scopes so there wouldnt be much else to be added

Gatling

Outside the guns anything else comes under clothing /militaria /
So there shouldn't be an issue

Guns god no please keep them off adverts

Steve

@se conman Not a silly question at all, in fact it's a major point in how we will work this.

The adverts.ie people are going ahead with this regardless so we can either work with them or against them. That's why I started this thread.

@Eoghan S yes, their will be an incentive, not sure on the details yet.

@shadowfox, good point, I hope they're reading this.

I've invited the adverts guys to reply here.

Steve

Gatling wrote: »

Guns god no please keep them off adverts

That's not on the cards at all.

ShadowFox

In my opinion Airsoft items should be left for sale here and here only at the end of the day here has 5 mods so 99.9 % of the time there is a mod around that will deal with an issue quickly and saves the threads getting out of hand

YbFocus

I don't get the idea of why this is being done?
What is it going to do for anyone?

I'm dead happy with airsoft adverts and won't be looking for any free bumps if that's all you get for dealing with the numpties in that part of the world

se conman

Allowing this will require a rewrite or an amendment to the Airsoft Adverts charter. This could be seen as a precedent for allowing the use of multiple sites as well as Airsoft Adverts for the same sale item. Can of worms.

Rooky1

se conman wrote: »

Allowing this will require a rewrite or an amendment to the Airsoft Adverts charter. This could be seen as a precedent for allowing the use of multiple sites as well as Airsoft Adverts for the same sale item. Can of worms.

I agree, once permission is given for this then technically anyone can sell on any other platform.

As it is now it only takes two minutes to spot at least half a dozen adds on Airsoft Adverts that are also for sale on Facebook. At this stage it must be nearly impossible to police.

Adverts.ie: Richard

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your comments. We are doing this as there are already hundreds of airsoft related products on Adverts.ie and retail shops. This is to give them a category for their items.

In relation to your charter. We were hoping that you could put a link to the adverts.ie listing on your boards thread. This is giving you more of a market for your items. We too do not like people listing items on other sites but let's be honest, it's the internet and even since the airsoft sales started on boards things have developed. Is just too hard to police where people put items for sale.

I am sure Steve can back me up here but it is so rare that any issue arises on Adverts with airsoft items. The moderation required is a lot less then on boards. We would still as everyone to report items that breach the rules through the reports system.

Thanks


.

ShadowFox

Adverts.ie: Richard wrote: »

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your comments. We are doing this as there are already hundreds of airsoft related products on Adverts.ie and retail shops. This is to give them a category for their items.

In relation to your charter. We were hoping that you could put a link to the adverts.ie listing on your boards thread. This is giving you more of a market for your items. We too do not like people listing items on other sites but let's be honest, it's the internet and even since the airsoft sales started on boards things have developed. Is just too hard to police where people put items for sale.

I am sure Steve can back me up here but it is so rare that any issue arises on Adverts with airsoft items. The moderation required is a lot less then on boards. We would still as everyone to report items that breach the rules through the reports system.

Thanks


.

If you want to "give the airsoft retailers on adverts their own section" why not send all 3 or 4 of them here and direct all airsoft sales to boards airsoft adverts also? Saves the hassle of changing the rules here and us from dealing with the people adverts.ie gets that charge double what Irish retailers do for new kit

ShadowFox

One more point regarding moderation on adverts.ie compared to moderation on boards.ie airsoft adverts.... A guy that was banned here for taking payment for items then not posting them stating he never recived the payment went on to adverts.ie to try the same scam I reported it and said the reason why I was reporting it between 8 and 10 hours later when the ad was still up on adverts.ie I contacted Steve by pm and only then was something done about it alot of people could have been out of pocket waiting on a reported ad to be acted on. That thankfully doesn't happen here

Adverts.ie: Richard

Let's point out the obvious. Boards is a forum site not a classifieds site. Retailers want to be on a shopping platform. We have a far larger marketplace.
If someone pays twice the retail value of something these days, their the fool. Not the person who has sold it. It's a free market ...does everyone not these days check the price of items on the internet before purchase ?

You made the point that someone got scammed on boards. Well it happens everywhere. We feel that our systems which include the feedback system keep scamming to a very low level. On Adverts.ie you get a good over view of the user before you make any deals. So if the case you pointed out that happened on boards had been on adverts, it might not have happened as people would have seen the users history before sending any payments.

Thanks

ShadowFox

We have the feedback forum here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055848045 which works the same was as user feedback on adverts. The main point i was making which you avoided was a reported ad was not acted on for over 8 hours only for i contacted Steve via pm at which time I didnt know Steve was an adverts mod I only found out that night when he told me. Here on bords.ie airsoft adverts a reported post/ad is generally delt with within 30 mins to 1 hour max

Adverts.ie: Richard

We have over 5000+ ads placed everyday and ofcourse it is not possible to respond as quick as you would on boards but the amount of scammers is such a low percentage. We deal with all reports well within the recomended 24hrs of reporting and have numerous filters and security measures in place that prevents know scammers from listing items.

Anyway, to cut to the chase. It's up to your members if they want to list items or not but I am quite confident it will grow quickly on Adverts.ie as a lot of the airsoft participants are already users of Adverts.ie. The category is going up on the site to fulfill demand and the constant requests from Adverts.ie users.

Thanks

ShadowFox

There is also alot of people that have been banned from here that now use adverts to sell their kit
Also id class a retailer as someone that has a shop or goes to airsoft sites or has their own web site not someone buying from china and selling on adverts at a higher price we can all do that

YbFocus

Sure then if people can now place stuff on adverts will it not mean that this place becomes pointless?
I thought this hadn't been decided and it was up for discussion but it seems final already from whats being said.

Adverts.ie: Richard

We are two different companies and neither can dictate to the other. It's a free market to sell where you like. We don't place restrictions on were people sell their items, that's a bit of an archaic rule in this day. Thanks for your feedback.

smashey

ShadowFox wrote: »

Here on bords.ie airsoft adverts a reported post/ad is generally delt with within 30 mins to 1 hour max

Just to clarify something on that. I reported a comment from this thread at 11.00 this morning and it hasn't been addressed yet. I don't have a problem with that as mods are volunteers and the weather is mighty, but to post that is a tad disingenuous. It has been over four hours since the report at this stage.

Adverts.ie: Eddie

YbFocus wrote: »

Sure then if people can now place stuff on adverts will it not mean that this place becomes pointless?
I thought this hadn't been decided and it was up for discussion but it seems final already from whats being said.

Hi,

We already have loads of ads on adverts for airsoft accessories. The idea here is we are going to give them their own category and in deference to this forum, we figured it would be a good idea to work with you and try to get a good cross-site feel to it with certain incentives. Weapons are removed from Adverts on sight and the sellers are directed here and that won't be changing.

I'm sorry to be blunt here but as Richard already alluded to, expecting exclusivity on ads listed here, while a noble idea, doesn't tie in with reality.

ShadowFox

Adverts.ie: Eddie wrote: »

Hi,

We already have loads of ads on adverts for airsoft accessories. The idea here is we are going to give them their own category and in deference to this forum, we figured it would be a good idea to work with you and try to get a good cross-site feel to it with certain incentives. Weapons are removed from Adverts on sight and the sellers are directed here and that won't be changing.

I'm sorry to be blunt here but as Richard already alluded to, expecting exclusivity on ads listed here, while a noble idea, doesn't tie in with reality.

The main thing i dont get is why sister companies would compete against each other doesnt make sense to me

Adverts.ie: Eddie

ShadowFox wrote: »

The main thing i dont get is why sister companies would compete against each other doesnt make sense to me

We aren't competing. While we don't allow the sale of weapons on adverts, there are no restrictions on accessories and as I said earlier, we are giving that a dedicated category.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Adverts.ie: Eddie wrote: »

We aren't competing. While we don't allow the sale of weapons on adverts, there are no restrictions on accessories and as I said earlier, we are giving that a dedicated category.

I wouldn't pronounce them as "weapons", more like airsoft gun. For me, airsoft rifle, pistol, etc...

And I have to agree with ShadowFox 100% on this.

se conman

The Airsoft Adverts charter says that you can sell an item here or you can sell it somewhere else but not here AND somewhere else. If the charter is changed to allow you sell an item here AND on Adverts.ie then why not on other sites also. The problem this produces is that, as per our charter, if I offer asking price for an item, I am intitled to get that item, but if the seller has agreed a sale on a different site (Adverts.ie) , even though I have offered asking price I don't get the item, leaving me p***ed off, complaints going to the Mods, leaving them p***ed and a whole load of aggro floating around that leaves EVERYONE p***ed off. My opinion would be that if people want to sell on Adverts.ie, let them, and if people want to sell on Airsoft Adverts, let them also. A charter change may not increase the Mod's work load but it will surely increase the hassle they have to deal with.

ShadowFox

smashey wrote: »

Just to clarify something on that. I reported a comment from this thread at 11.00 this morning and it hasn't been addressed yet. I don't have a problem with that as mods are volunteers and the weather is mighty, but to post that is a tad disingenuous. It has been over four hours since the report at this stage.

Ok so i was proved wrong ill take the hit like the airsoft rule of honor says they seem to be alot faster when i do something wrong Ive also edited the post didnt mean to cause offence just on a rant

YbFocus

There is also the charter rule that if there are interested parties on here it may not be sold to any third party, be it from another site or a friend etc.

ShadowFox

Adverts.ie: Eddie wrote: »

We aren't competing. While we don't allow the sale of weapons on adverts, there are no restrictions on accessories and as I said earlier, we are giving that a dedicated category.

If/ When you open an airsoft category you are going to be lashed with aegs pistols snipers and shottie ad going up. And I still see it as competing and by joining the 2 its going to turn a lot of people away as se conman said people will get annoyed offering the asking and not getting the item or offering the asking and seller getting a higher offer on adverts.ie which is frowned at here

smashey

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

I wouldn't pronounce them as "weapons", more like airsoft gun. For me, airsoft rifle, pistol, etc...

And I have to agree with ShadowFox 100% on this.

Semantics. For reference;

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

This was only one of my back up weapons in case anything ever happened to my main DMR, hence such little use.

Adverts.ie: Eddie

ShadowFox wrote: »

If/ When you open an airsoft category you are going to be lashed with aegs pistols snipers and shottie ad going up. And I still see it as competing and by joining the 2 its going to turn a lot of people away as se conman said people will get annoyed offering the asking and not getting the item or offering the asking and seller getting a higher offer on adverts.ie which is frowned at here

We already get all those on a daily basis but we remove them and send the sellers a link to this forum.

ShadowFox

Adverts.ie: Eddie wrote: »

We already get all those on a daily basis but we remove them and send the sellers a link to this forum.

It will be a lot worse as most of the ones banned from here use facebook at the moment once word gets around that adverts has an airsoft section they will be trying there most of the ones you have trying to sell the aegs etc on adverts are from here already(under different names) or banned from here but they can charge a higher price on adverts.ie and rope a newbie easier than here

Adverts.ie: Richard

ShadowFox wrote: »

If/ When you open an airsoft category you are going to be lashed with aegs pistols snipers and shottie ad going up. And I still see it as competing and by joining the 2 its going to turn a lot of people away as se conman said people will get annoyed offering the asking and not getting the item or offering the asking and seller getting a higher offer on adverts.ie which is frowned at here

We have the technical filters that quarantine 99% of the pistols etc that are posted on adverts. We then send them a mail to sell it on boards. We do already provide the boards forum a lot of items that go up for sale. We are not changing anything, all the items which we propose to categorise are all ready in "other outdoor pursuits" category. If adverts really wanted to start allowing the sale of all airsoft items we could. But we are not interested in that.

Steve

Lads, it's been explained more than once that adverts.ie are still not going to allow airsoft guns. It's always been that way and is not changing so please drop that argument.

I'd say 90% of what is posted on this forum is guns so we're not actually at risk of changing much as far as content here is concerned.

3% is probably stuff like clothing and stuff that is not necessarily 100% Airsoft as it would cross over with general military and other outdoor pursuits. The remainder would be gun accessories such as rails, mags, sights, fets, lipos, motors etc and that's not the type of stuff people would buy outside of a dedicated site such as here.

As regards listing elsewhere, it's technically not a rule breach here - never has been. The rule is that if you *sell* elsewhere while there is active interest in the item here then it's actionable.

As regards scammers - whether they are identified here or on adverts - that's a good point. There's a parallel discussion in the mods forum on this and I'll bring it up. I definitely think that some pooling of intel between sites would be of benefit there but there are also data protection laws that we have to consider.

Thanks for the feedback so far from all concerned - and apologies to smashey for being out enjoying the sun today :P

shnburn

Adverts.ie: Eddie wrote: »

We aren't competing. While we don't allow the sale of weapons on adverts, there are no restrictions on accessories and as I said earlier, we are giving that a dedicated category.

Airsoft guns are not weapons if there with in the legal limit iv seen paintball guns and bow an arrows being sold on adverts witch dont make sence whats going do more damage a plastic pellet or a sharp pointed arrow http://www.adverts.ie/camping-outdoor-pursuits/yamaha-olympic-bow/3298330 4 weeks that bow is up iv seen 4 others that are up only afew days now that have arrows included

Adverts.ie: Richard

I think you know what Eddie means by weapons. Anyway, the best thing to do if you see an item that is not permitted is to just report it and it will be removed.

shnburn

Adverts.ie: Richard wrote: »

I think you know what Eddie means by weapons. Anyway, the best thing to do if you see an item that is not permitted is to just report it and it will be removed.

Theres a bow thats a premeom ad thats up few days there always up and theres a magazine for a real rifle up weeks airsoft guns arnt dangarous if there within legal limit an yet iv seen alot of dangerous weapons that have been sold on adverts or that have been up over a week

Adverts.ie: Richard

Again. Report the ads and they will be looked at.

Inari

This will only increase the amount of guns on adverts.ie.

I just did a cursory search of 'airsoft' on adverts and there was at least two guns with active ads, and one that had been sold. This is stuff that's slipping through the cracks on items that are supposed to be completely banned off of the site. Allowing airsoft items will increase the frequency of guns appearing, whether you want to admit it or not.
That said, there was a tonne of airsoft accessories seen on that search already - the items are available as individual listings as well as on the stores there, so it is nothing new clearly. Which brings me nicely along to my next point; does anything need to change if it's already there?

Adverts.ie: Richard

Again, you are missing the point. It is just a category name to put all those ads you see in.
There is always going to be items that are forbidden on the site, whether it airsoft guns, modded consoles, pets for sale etc. We try our best to prevent them being listed but we cannot 100% guarantee that they will not appear. But with all users help, it is kept to a bare minimum. If you please report the ads they will be removed.

Gatling

So basically an official dedicated airsoft area on adverts for all things related to the sport/hobby ,
With the exception of Guns ,