Should Met Eireann services be outsourced?

sally365

According to the Met Éireann annual report for 2005, the service had a budget of €20.6 million for that year.

The service received payments of €7.8 million from the Eurocontrol air traffic control authority, in the same year.

* That's the latest figures I could find

Question - With the use of new technology has the government ever considered outsourcing Met Éireann services or making any huge cutbacks - €20.6 million at the time seems huge. I wonder what it is now

jimmycrackcorm

It would be interesting to compare it with the costs of running the UK service. Does a lager landmass mean more forecasters when essentially they have the same amount of cloud stickers to put on the map on TV :-)

Hootanany

That's ridicules money for a weather service no wonder Jean Bryne can afford that clobber

sally365

It seriously needs to be reviewed and looked into.

They use a European mapping and forecast system that models the weather based on weather stations.

I'd love to see a breakdown of their expenses.

Jawgap

I'm not sure about out-sourcing - as a state we should retain our own capacity for forecast the weather, esepcially given the importance of agriculture and tourism to our economy.

However, they should be encouraged to develop more commercial services and bring in revenue.

If I'm reading the UK Met Office Annual Report right, they turn a profit and pay a dividend in to the public purse, no reason why Met Eireann can't.

Sierra Oscar

Weather forecasting is not cheap, that will remain the case whether the service is out sourced or not. For one it costs a lot to have access to the 'new technology' that you refer to.

Personally I think it is of vital importance that we retain our meteorological service. It is important that we are able to produce reliable forecasts for maritime and aviation purposes, amongst other things.

Forecasting is much more than just providing information so people know when is best to hit the beach, which some people tend to forget.

riffmongous

They do more than just forecast too, they provide and maintain the equipment that provides the meteorological data needed to even make forecasts in the first place, as well as research and development areas.

djpbarry

I can't believe some people think that €20 million is "huge" for the kind of technical expertise that Met Éireann provide.

Manach

Perhaps its functionality could be split. AFAIR from Nate Silver's book "Signal to Noise", the US set-up is a core Weather dept funded by the state to amass the data and analyse it. Then this is available to private third parties to package it to end consumers.

ardmacha

I would make one change, it is ridiculous to have two Met services on this island. Weather is related to geography, not politics, sun or rain does not stop at the border and this is the kind of service ideal for an All Ireland body.

echo beach

Jawgap wrote: »

If I'm reading the UK Met Office Annual Report right, they turn a profit and pay a dividend in to the public purse, no reason why Met Eireann can't.

They make a profit alright, paying a dividend of £7.6 million, AFTER they charge government £171.7 million for the services they provide. In effect they give some money to one department that they got from another.
It is hard to make direct comparisons. I'd say our Dept of Defense doesn't use the met office as much they do in the UK and although we have less land mass we have a big sea area to forecast for so there may not be much scope for major savings.

echo beach

According the the 2007 Annual report, http://www.met.ie/publications/2007_Annual%20Report.pdf
which for some reason is the most recent on their website, total expenditure was €22.5 million with revenues of over €10 million so the cost to the taxpayer was €12.3 million.

It seems rather strange that the figures given in the annual report are approximate only and don't form part of the official annual accounts.
Is it not usual to include the accounts in the annual report? After all they are the most important piece of information.

goose2005

djpbarry wrote: »

I can't believe some people think that €20 million is "huge" for the kind of technical expertise that Met Éireann provide.

And I really don't get the obsession that outsourcing = cheap. Look at the enormous overspend on outsourcing to build motorways, or really any public-private partnership. We'd probably end up spending €30 million a year to some political pal who'd make a mess of it.

Zombrex

sally365 wrote: »

According to the Met Éireann annual report for 2005, the service had a budget of €20.6 million for that year.

The service received payments of €7.8 million from the Eurocontrol air traffic control authority, in the same year.

* That's the latest figures I could find

Question - With the use of new technology has the government ever considered outsourcing Met Éireann services or making any huge cutbacks - €20.6 million at the time seems huge. I wonder what it is now

I don't think outsourcing is the issue. The issue, just like with a lot of the civil service, is that there are staff who's positions have been made some what irrelevant by modern technology but who have a job until retirement.

I would imagine you will see the cost for running Met Eireann decrease over the years as people retire and are not replaced.

mike65

ardmacha wrote: »

I would make one change, it is ridiculous to have two Met services on this island. Weather is related to geography, not politics, sun or rain does not stop at the border and this is the kind of service ideal for an All Ireland body.

As the UK met office obviously includes Norn Iron, I'm not sure what you are suggesting other than we throw our lot in with the UKMO and close ME (or reduce it to an office of the UKMO)

Jawgap

echo beach wrote: »

They make a profit alright, paying a dividend of £7.6 million, AFTER they charge government £171.7 million for the services they provide. In effect they give some money to one department that they got from another.
It is hard to make direct comparisons. I'd say our Dept of Defense doesn't use the met office as much they do in the UK and although we have less land mass we have a big sea area to forecast for so there may not be much scope for major savings.

The point of the internal market is to encourage efficiencies. The MoD and other government departments need weather services and they get a budget to buy them - if the Met Office can supply them cheaper than other providers they get the contract, if they can't they don't. without that mechanism how much more would be spent?

goose2005 wrote: »

And I really don't get the obsession that outsourcing = cheap. Look at the enormous overspend on outsourcing to build motorways, or really any public-private partnership. We'd probably end up spending €30 million a year to some political pal who'd make a mess of it.

It's not about outsourcing - it's about commericialising. Just because they are in public ownership doesn't mean they can't turn a Euro. In 2007 (the last annual report I could find, there may be later editions) they earned about €1.8m from "Receipts from Commercial & Cost Recovery Activities" - that seems slim when set against their overall budget.

jmayo

sally365 wrote: »

According to the Met Éireann annual report for 2005, the service had a budget of €20.6 million for that year.

The service received payments of €7.8 million from the Eurocontrol air traffic control authority, in the same year.

* That's the latest figures I could find

Question - With the use of new technology has the government ever considered outsourcing Met Éireann services or making any huge cutbacks - €20.6 million at the time seems huge. I wonder what it is now

Would you mind telling me who would the met service be outsourced to ?

Or perhaps now that we have a few fine weeks you reckon they aren't needed and Sky News will fill in the gaps ?

BTW there are a lot more people working in Met Eireann than the jokers you see and hear in the media.

In my opinion there are certain things in the remit of the state that could be outsourced, but then there are certain things that should not.
Met Service is one of these that shouldn't.

riffmongous

One effect that I think is a result of the more commercial nature of the Met Office is that they are often pressured to give predictions on things that they physically can't predict, i.e making long range summer and winter forecasts that are have very little meteorological basis to them, and as a result of their credibility is often lowered in the eyes of the public, due to the large amount of media attention these predictions guess.

Fr Tod Umptious

jmayo wrote: »

Would you mind telling me who would the met service be outsourced to ?

Or perhaps now that we have a few fine weeks you reckon they aren't needed and Sky News will fill in the gaps ?

BTW there are a lot more people working in Met Eireann than the jokers you see and hear in the media.

In my opinion there are certain things in the remit of the state that could be outsourced, but then there are certain things that should not.
Met Service is one of these that shouldn't.

Why are they 'jokers' ?

ardmacha

As the UK met office obviously includes Norn Iron, I'm not sure what you are suggesting other than we throw our lot in with the UKMO and close ME (or reduce it to an office of the UKMO)

I'm suggesting that NI be removed from the UKMO, for whom it an afterthought in any case. ME could probably effectively cover the 6 counties at little marginal cost, certainly less than the NI contribution to running the UKMO.

jmayo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why are they 'jokers' ?

Come on Tod I think we both know what I mean.
I could have the said "the ones", "the heads", "the bods", "the people", etc.

BTW they don't tell jokes, although Geard Fleming was always a bit light hearted.

I used to know a guy who got a dry run on the Live at Three or some such show doing the weather, but he never made it onto prime time.
Then again he was not quiet as presentable as Jean Byrne.

sally365

jmayo wrote: »

Would you mind telling me who would the met service be outsourced to ?.

I'm not sure , but It's always been an idea in my mind if outsourcing was actually an option.

I'm wondering where are the annual report for Met Eireann?? 2007 is the only one I can find

ardmacha

jmayo wrote: »

BTW they don't tell jokes, although Geard Fleming was always a bit light hearted.

A crowd of total wets, what's wrong with having a dry sense of humour? But I imagine they are snowed under with work.


On to the main point, I doubt if outsourcing would help greatly. People in technical services like this tend to take some pride in their work and so be better run than the civil service, so appropriate for public ownership.

Jawgap

jmayo wrote: »

Would you mind telling me who would the met service be outsourced to ?


.

I wouldn't agree with the idea of outsourcing, but if it was to go ahead what's to stop some commercially minded university (or group of universities) taking the work on, doing the data crunching and issuing the forecasts?

The presenters don't have to be meteorologists - are RTE the only ones to use meteorologists? And the more 'technical' and detailed forecasts could be streamed from said university over the internet on a continuous loop.