Lanes and right of way?

hypersonic

Does anybody know what the status of (back) lanes is in Ireland, are they public right of way?
If so how can I go about getting gates opened/removed so i can use the lane during my cycling commute.

Thanks in advance for you help with this some what random query.

Sundy

The land registry would be the place to look.

What makes you think the locked lanes etc are rights of way?

hypersonic

Because some maps show it as a path and many locals remember having access/ a way through. I suspect the gates where erected illegally.

CramCycle

I thought some rights of way could still have gates for animals/farming reasons. Can they be opened by yourself and closed behind you or are they padlocked?

hypersonic

it is currently locked with a substantial pad lock, I suspect it was used to separate a "good area" from a not so "good area". both area would be equal now.
I emailed the town council about it and once I know the status I will put together a route proposal.
the current route is hazardous with roundabouts on steep slopes with very poor sight lines.
also there are two short and very awkward zip merges.
All of the above can be avoided with 100m of lane access. this is why I'm keen to see it open.


Edit: google maps of roundabout
eg https://www.google.com/maps?ll=52.33863,-6.473393&spn=0.001304,0.002843&t=m&dg=opt&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.33857,-6.474446&panoid=CX9872KcGRbMfIu2bDL2bw&cbp=13,0.76,,0,1.33
But you can't see over the walls so particularly dangerous as traffic often does not yield.

cjt156

I know of a laneway of which the freehold was bought out by a private land owner. The council managed to let this slip by oversight. The first the residents knew was when a set of gates was erected. After legal wrangling the owner had to supply keys for pedestrian access to the residents immediately effected, but its use as a public right of way was undermined.

Could be a similar scenario and yes, the land registry is your best bet.

Doctor Bob

hypersonic wrote: »

Does anybody know what the status of (back) lanes is in Ireland, are they public right of way?
If so how can I go about getting gates opened/removed so i can use the lane during my cycling commute.

Thanks in advance for you help with this some what random query.

Urban or rural? Residential or access?

There is no blanket status for 'back lanes'- some will allow the public a right of way, some have had the right of way extinguished by the relevant Council, following public display/consultation. In these latter cases, houses that back onto the lane often retain access rights through any gate.

Elsewhere, you can have right of way over private land, so it's not just a matter of the road/lane being a public road.

It's entirely possible that a gate was erected illegally, but I think this happens more in rural areas where residents wish to 'privatise' their access roads as driveways to discourage passing traffic (foot, cycle, vehicular). It's also possible that the gate was erected legally and the right of way formally extinguished, even in the face of considerable local opposition- the Old Head of Kinsale golf course saga would be a case in point.

Would your laneway provide a significant benefit to your journey? How long is the detour necessitated by the closure of the lane? Or is it just a case of using the back lane to access your back garden/yard?

hypersonic

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Urban or rural? Residential or access?

Rural

Doctor Bob wrote: »

It's entirely possible that a gate was erected illegally, but I think this happens more in rural areas where residents wish to 'privatise' their access roads as driveways to discourage passing traffic (foot, cycle, vehicular).

I suspect the gates were used to separate two neighborhoods. :rolleyes:

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Would your laneway provide a significant benefit to your journey? How long is the detour necessitated by the closure of the lane? Or is it just a case of using the back lane to access your back garden/yard?

Having access to the lane would improve the safety and quality of my cycle to work.

Del2005

hypersonic wrote: »

Edit: google maps of roundabout
eg https://www.google.com/maps?ll=52.33863,-6.473393&spn=0.001304,0.002843&t=m&dg=opt&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.33857,-6.474446&panoid=CX9872KcGRbMfIu2bDL2bw&cbp=13,0.76,,0,1.33
But you can't see over the walls so particularly dangerous as traffic often does not yield.

Where's the gate in the pic?

hypersonic

Del2005 wrote: »

Where's the gate in the pic?

Gates at both ends

https://www.google.com/maps?ll=52.335942,-6.47541&spn=0.000652,0.001422&t=m&dg=opt&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.335838,-6.475356&panoid=EzCA6yEWA_bjfjKv4Ax4jg&cbp=13,97.24,,0,12.2

monument

Doctor Bob wrote: »

...some have had the right of way extinguished by the relevant Council, following public display/consultation.

Sometimes watching Dublin city council meetings it seems like this is one of their main practical functions (fair enough they may do it in bulk).

I have a good understanding of why people want lanes blocked off, but I do wonder about the scale of it sometimes.

hypersonic wrote: »

Because some maps show it as a path and many locals remember having access/ a way through. I suspect the gates where erected illegally.

Sadly maps are often wrong and what locals remember may gave changed.

Try contacting the local council and the local councillors to see if they know.

hardCopy

I remember as a kid a lot of lanes in our area were suddenly gated off due to habitual drug dealing and anti-social behaviour in the lanes. This was all done by the council at the request of local residents AFAIK.

monument

hypersonic wrote: »

Gates at both ends

https://www.google.com/maps?ll=52.335942,-6.47541&spn=0.000652,0.001422&t=m&dg=opt&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.335838,-6.475356&panoid=EzCA6yEWA_bjfjKv4Ax4jg&cbp=13,97.24,,0,12.2

Is the other end at the Westlands housing estate between two houses? As attached?

hypersonic

Yes, just behind the skip. hard to see but it's there.

https://www.google.com/maps?ll=52.336899,-6.472943&spn=0.00236,0.011373&cbp=11,167.86,,2,2&layer=c&panoid=pnTmY2sYcSPbsyzuxS94Dg&cbll=52.336896,-6.472945&dg=opt&t=m&z=16

you can see the route marked as a path here
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.33637&lon=-6.47385&zoom=17&layers=M

Doctor Bob

monument wrote: »

I have a good understanding of why people want lanes blocked off, but I do wonder about the scale of it sometimes.

hardCopy wrote: »

I remember as a kid a lot of lanes in our area were suddenly gated off due to habitual drug dealing and anti-social behaviour in the lanes. This was all done by the council at the request of local residents AFAIK.

South Dublin County Council has done a lot of good work in the last couple of years improving local short cuts and informal walkways. They looked for locations where people were already jumping a wall or squeezing through a fence, and then formalised them with paths, access gates, etc. One particularly good example is at Dargle Wood, Knocklyon- pics below. This is now used by kids of all ages to get from the housing estate to a school at the far end, and parents even leave the kids off at one end of it knowing they'll be able to complete the journey alone.

In one recent case, however, the local councillors opposed such improvements on the basis that the walkway would attract anti-social behaviour, when in fact it seems that the opposition arose due to a high number of people parking in an estate and using the existing short cut to get their kids to school on foot. Now you might argue that unregulated parking by non-locals is a form of anti-social behaviour, but I don't think that's what they meant, and I'd argue that a short cut that facilitates 600 kids getting to school is something that should be enhanced, not removed, particularly if its closure would result in even more parents, including those from the affected estate(s), driving to the school gates.

It's a sensitive issue, and the parking is no doubt a concern for the locals directly affected, but I often suspect that the fears of anti-social behaviour are overstated and can be used as a smokescreen for other ulterior motives. Yet it seems, if the voices that shout loudest are to be believed, that people would prefer to see a path closed and drive the long way around, rather than have the use of the facility for their own benefit even if it means having other non-locals using the route.

The solution wouldn't work everywhere, but if designed right, most short cuts should displace anti-social behaviour through a combination of regular use, good lighting, good sight lines and passive surveillance.

In general, closure seems to be the laziest option.

hypersonic

Another one bites the dust!

"The right of way shown on your map was extinguished in 2006 by resolution of the Borough Council in accordance with the provisions of Section 73 of the Roads Act 1993. From the maps on my file, the extinguishment covered the section of the pathway marked on your map, but, in addition, included the pathway running on to Belvedere Road and the pathway which turns into Westlands."