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solar heating squashed cylinder.

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  • 16-07-2013 12:52am
    #1
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭


    solar heating squashed cylinder. seen this for the first time this evening. any one else come across this?

    the cylinder was like an empty can of coke. after been twisted in your hands.


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    #2
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    corkplumber wrote: »
    solar heating squashed cylinder. seen this for the first time this evening. any one else come across this?

    Like from a vacuum or something? Ours has been boiling the last few days, heat dump radiator isn't big enough. Worried about this potential scenario when it cools down and condenses.


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    #3
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    ye. by fcuk in credible to see the damage to the cylinder. he had a small rad for the heat dump also.


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    #4
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    corkplumber wrote: »
    ye. by fcuk in credible to see the damage to the cylinder. he had a small rad for the heat dump also.

    How on earth did that happen? Direct feed cylinder? Did they turn off the supply when they heard the pipes boiling, so no water could get in to fill the void when the steam condensed?


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    #5
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    TheChizler wrote: »
    How on earth did that happen? Direct feed cylinder? Did they turn off the supply when they heard the pipes boiling, so no water could get in to fill the void when the steam condensed?

    came home to a flooded house. I just drained system. ill investigate in the morning. lights out of action. I had a look at the solar panels and I think they are way over sized. probably need a small swimming pool to use as a heat dump.


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    #6
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    corkplumber wrote: »
    came home to a flooded house. I just drained system. ill investigate in the morning. lights out of action. I had a look at the solar panels and I think they are way over sized. probably need a small swimming pool to use as a heat dump.

    Would love a few pictures!


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    #7
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    Dtp79 wrote: »
    Would love a few pictures!

    went back this morning. I came to the conclusion the cold supply filling the cylinder. had been turned off. (client says he turned it off after discovering leak) I doubt this. I think he turned off the water filling the cylinder and steam created released thru blow off and on cooling down pressure caused the damage. solar panels are correct size and cylinder ect.

    didn't get a chance to take a photo of the cylinder. will do when I go back to fit cylinder. client wants a second opinion (manufacturer or similar before replacing new cylinder) He is adamant it was previous installers fault. Im not so sure. defo think supply filling cylinder was shut off for some reason.


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    #8
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Be plenty of joy yet retro-fitting curtains

    http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_detail.php?proID=757&catID=153


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    #9
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    corkplumber wrote: »
    went back this morning. I came to the conclusion the cold supply filling the cylinder. had been turned off. (client says he turned it off after discovering leak) I doubt this. I think he turned off the water filling the cylinder and steam created released thru blow off and on cooling down pressure caused the damage. solar panels are correct size and cylinder ect.

    didn't get a chance to take a photo of the cylinder. will do when I go back to fit cylinder. client wants a second opinion (manufacturer or similar before replacing new cylinder) He is adamant it was previous installers fault. Im not so sure. defo think supply filling cylinder was shut off for some reason.


    Your right. Solar will only affect the coil, cruch or burst.
    Your problem is on the domestic water end which you have already spotted.
    It like dureing the bad freeze, tank and expansions frozen. Somebody runs tap downstairs cylindre crumples like a can. Cylinders will withstand high pressure from the inside but not from the outside if a vacume is caused due to the points you explained earlier.
    Athmospherec air pressure at ground level 1bar/ 15 psi. pressure drop in cylindre due to vacume "volla"
    I know. I sound like Shane!


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    #10
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Your right. Solar will only affect the coil, cruch or burst.
    Your problem is on the domestic water end which you have already spotted.
    It like dureing the bad freeze, tank and expansions frozen. Somebody runs tap downstairs cylindre crumples like a can. Cylinders will withstand high pressure from the inside but not from the outside if a vacume is caused due to the points you explained earlier.
    Athmospherec air pressure at ground level 1bar/ 15 psi. pressure drop in cylindre due to vacume "volla"
    I know. I sound like Shane!

    Happened me once. Some clown before me had an NRV in the attic on the vent. Soon as I turned off the cold supply and opens a tap the god awful sound of a cylinder imploding growled through the house


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    #11
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    Dtp79 wrote: »
    Happened me once. Some clown before me had an NRV in the attic on the vent. Soon as I turned off the cold supply and opens a tap the god awful sound of a cylinder imploding growled through the house
    Hard to beleve it till you see it happen eh?


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    #12
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Hard to beleve it till you see it happen eh?

    Fcukin right there. It's the most un natural sound!!


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    #13
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Athmospherec air pressure at ground level 1bar/ 15 psi. pressure drop in cylindre due to vacume "volla"
    I know. I sound like Shane!

    Erm..... if you going to sound like me, can you get it right please! Atmospheric pressure at ground level is 0 bar. I don't walk around with 1 bar pressure on my face. :-)


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    #14
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Atomospheric pressure at ground level is roughly 1 bar absolute.
    Guage pressure that would be 0 bar, because gauges are made to account for this pressure.

    Quickly robbed from internet "The standard atmosphere (symbol: atm) is a unit of pressure equal to 101325 Pa ("pascals")[2] or 1013.25 millibars or hectopascals"

    So you do have one bar of pressure on your face, you just don't notice it


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    #15
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Erm..... if you going to sound like me, can you get it right please! Atmospheric pressure at ground level is 0 bar. I don't walk around with 1 bar pressure on my face. :-)
    Your wrong ( I'm happy to say)
    0 pressure in space ie the moon. 1bar at sea level, and for ever 10 meters you go under water the pressure goes up by 1 bar ie. 50 meters deep in the sea its 5 bar/ 75psi aprox.( I've been there)

    Guess what I do as a hobby !

    Check it out, and I hope I haven't made a fool of myself ( for the first time of cource) !


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    #16
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Your wrong ( I'm happy to say)
    0 pressure in space ie the moon. 1bar at sea level, and for ever 10 meters you go under water the pressure goes up by 1 bar ie. 50 meters deep in the sea its 5 bar/ 75psi aprox.( I've been there)

    Guess what I do as a hobby !

    Check it out, and I hope I haven't made a fool of myself ( for the first time of cource) !

    Big gamble there scudo


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    #17
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    I heard about this in international today. Has to be the supply turned off. No other way it could happen


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    #18
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Your wrong ( I'm happy to say)
    0 pressure in space ie the moon. 1bar at sea level, and for ever 10 meters you go under water the pressure goes up by 1 bar ie. 50 meters deep in the sea its 5 bar/ 75psi aprox.( I've been there)

    Guess what I do as a hobby !

    Check it out, and I hope I haven't made a fool of myself ( for the first time of cource) !

    I think you need to read your google friend, wiki, again.
    1atm is 1 bar as it is 1 bar atmospheric pressure.
    You are mistaking also on the moon as zero gravity, as it is outside the earth's pull of gravity of 1.

    Think of your head height of 10m above ground level. At ground level, the pressure will be 1 bar, not 1 bar plus 1 bar atm, which would be 2 bar.
    You have also given 10m under sea level as 1 bar but also at sea level it is also 1 bar.

    A big huge hmmmm......


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    #19
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Erm..... if you going to sound like me, can you get it right please! Atmospheric pressure at ground level is 0 bar. I don't walk around with 1 bar pressure on my face. :-)

    Actually you do.

    Pressure on your beautiful face at ground level is 1 bar

    But in water pressure at 10 meters in the sea it called 1bar but it should be 1+1=2 bar + an extra one for every 10m
    But its not spoken that way becouse peoples heads might burst thinking about it.
    Slander forgiven.


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    #20
    DGOBS
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭DGOBS


    Hey, the moon has gravity, it's about 1/5th of ours, but not zero G (the astronauts didn't float away did they..) ...hmmmmm...


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    #21
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    shane0007 wrote: »
    I think you need to read your google friend, wiki, again.
    1atm is 1 bar as it is 1 bar atmospheric pressure.
    You are mistaking also on the moon as zero gravity, as it is outside the earth's pull of gravity of 1.

    Think of your head height of 10m above ground level. At ground level, the pressure will be 1 bar, not 1 bar plus 1 bar atm, which would be 2 bar.
    You have also given 10m under sea level as 1 bar but also at sea level it is also 1 bar.

    A big huge hmmmm......
    You're on a hiding to nothing on this one shane. You have one bar at ground/sea level. The reason you don't feel it is because of equilibrium, as you gain altitude you begin to feel the reduction in pressure in your ears very quickly. When you swallow you re-establish equilibrium between the inner and outer ear. The reason you don't have atmospheric pressure on the moon, is because there is no atmosphere.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Slick50 wrote: »
    You're on a hiding to nothing on this one shane. You have one bar at ground/sea level. The reason you don't feel it is because of equilibrium, as you gain altitude you begin to feel the reduction in pressure in your ears very quickly. When you swallow you re-establish equilibrium between the inner and outer ear. The reason you don't have atmospheric pressure on the moon, is because there is no atmosphere.

    Sounds like one of Shane's party's.


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    #23
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    DGOBS wrote: »
    Hey, the moon has gravity, it's about 1/5th of ours, but not zero G (the astronauts didn't float away did they..) ...hmmmmm...

    But the would burst without there pressure suits

    I never mentioned gravity. I should have just said outer space.


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    #24
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Ah well, I know when I am beat. Floating was never my forte anyhow.
    I'll stick to my pressure in heating systems & open vented systems, and I will trust my pressure gauge.


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    #25
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    corkplumber wrote: »
    solar heating squashed cylinder. seen this for the first time this evening. any one else come across this?

    the cylinder was like an empty can of coke. after been twisted in your hands.
    How did you get on with the cause of cyl. + any pic.s

    It wasn't in Passage by the way was it?...................Emmm


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    #26
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    gary71 wrote: »
    Sounds like one of Shane's party's.
    Very harsh.:D


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    #27
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    Just got a call of this client. He wants to go a head and replace cylinder at my earliest convenience. I asked did the rep pay a site visit ( he says no. just wants system up and running) doubt this. I would say rep attended and gave him same explanation as the written report I gave him.


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    #28
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    corkplumber wrote: »
    went back this morning. I came to the conclusion the cold supply filling the cylinder. had been turned off. (client says he turned it off after discovering leak) I doubt this. I think he turned off the water filling the cylinder and steam created released thru blow off and on cooling down pressure caused the damage. solar panels are correct size and cylinder ect.

    didn't get a chance to take a photo of the cylinder. will do when I go back to fit cylinder. client wants a second opinion (manufacturer or similar before replacing new cylinder) He is adamant it was previous installers fault. Im not so sure. defo think supply filling cylinder was shut off for some reason.

    Assuming a pressurised system then the hot water cylinder should have been fitted with a T&P relief valve AND obviously an expansion vessel, the temperature sensor in the T&P valve should start venting water at 85c to 90C. If these were fitted (correctly) and if they didnt protect the tank from imploding even if the cold fill was closed then one would think that it should be mandatory for a vacuum breaker valve to be installed on the system. I would think that alot of people would shut off the cold feed to the hot water cylinder if they detected a leak. Was the expansion vessel water logged due to a punctured bladder?. JTC


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