Bow and arrow

Ryan..

Hello I want to buy a Barnett vortex from a American site and was would like to know that if I bought one it wouldn't get confiscated as I'm not sure about if it could be posted to my door or not

Thanks

Recurve360

You can order it but keep this in mind:

Have you checked the draw weight? Shooting a bow with a higher poundage than you can handle will do you damage in the long term.

And also customs will charge you import duty/VAT when importing anything from outside the EU.

It wont get confiscated but if ordering arrows if they have broadhead tips they may be as they are for hunting and it is illegal in this country.

aaakev

Iv seen broadheads for sale in shops in ireland. I know its illegal to hunt with a bow but i dont think the broadheads are restricted

Bizzum

[quote="Recurve360;85526596")


It wont get confiscated but if ordering arrows if they have broadhead tips they may be as they are for hunting and it is illegal in this country.[/quote]

Which specific piece of legislation makes it illegal for me to cleanly dispatch a rabbit on my own land?

aaakev

You can cleanly dispatch a rabbit if you like just not with a bow and arrow. I had a quick look there but couldnt find the relivant bit, iv read it before though

Recurve360

Bizzum wrote: »

Which specific piece of legislation makes it illegal for me to cleanly dispatch a rabbit on my own land?

Hunting with a bow and arrow in this country is purely for target and field archery. There is big fines for using it in anyway for using it against an animal. If you want to dispose of rabbits get a shotgun.

Bizzum

aaakev wrote: »

You can cleanly dispatch a rabbit if you like just not with a bow and arrow. I had a quick look there but couldnt find the relivant bit, iv read it before though

I don't believe there is any legislation stopping me.

Recurve360 wrote: »

Hunting with a bow and arrow in this country is purely for target and field archery. There is big fines for using it in anyway for using it against an animal. If you want to dispose of rabbits get a shotgun.

I have a shotgun, a rifle and several bows but that's beside the point. Give me a link to this legislation please.
There is no legislation stopping me from cleanly killing a rabbit for my dinner IMO.
Let's stick to rabbits only for a start.

Recurve360

Bizzum wrote: »

I don't believe there is any legislation stopping me.



I have a shotgun, a rifle and several bows but that's beside the point. Give me a link to this legislation please.
There is no legislation stopping me from cleanly killing a rabbit for my dinner IMO.
Let's stick to rabbits only for a start.

If you persist you will be reported to a moderator and be banned for discussing this. It is clearly stated in the forum charter not to discuss bowhunting.

It is illegal in several EU countries. I dont have the time to search through every piece of firearm legislation to prove a point. Only piece of info I could find is on wikipedia which lists what countries it is illegal in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowhunting

I would love to know where you got your bows because when I bought my first bow and joined a club afterwards I was informed that it was indeed illegal.

Its because of attitudes like yours that there are plans afoot to include Bows in firearm licensees. To prevent morons from not killing an animal and causing them to suffer unlike they would with a firearm.

Bizzum

Recurve360 wrote: »

If you persist you will be reported to a moderator and be banned for discussing this. It is clearly stated in the forum charter not to discuss bowhunting.

It is illegal in several EU countries. I dont have the time to search through every piece of firearm legislation to prove a point. Only piece of info I could find is on wikipedia which lists what countries it is illegal in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowhunting

I would love to know where you got your bows because when I bought my first bow and joined a club afterwards I was informed that it was indeed illegal.

Its because of attitudes like yours that there are plans afoot to include Bows in firearm licensees. To prevent morons from not killing an animal and causing them to suffer unlike they would with a firearm.

I've had a look at the charter there. It appears you're right about one thing, ie. not discussing bowhunting.
However it's the only thing you're right on. Where I got my bows from has no relevance. You know nothing of my attitude to killing animals, but it's at the opposide end of the spectrum from where you think it is.
I'm not going to discuss bowhunting as it is against charter, but I do know the law. If you wish to PM me a link to the current Irish legislation, I'd be interested. I won't hold my breath though.

..Brian..

Been doing a bit of digging there but can't find anything. Closest thing I can find is the UK's "Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (c. 69)", "if any person… uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal… any bow or cross-bow… he shall be guilty of an offense."

It's unusual that it's so hard to find but anyone involved in archery in Ireland will be able to confirm it is illegal.

Lardy

Wildlife Act, 1976
Here you go:

http://193.178.1.79/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0034.html#zza39y1976s34

"34.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to section 42, a person shall not—

(a) hunt any wild bird or wild mammal by means of a trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart, spear or similar device, instrument or missile, or birdlime or any substance of a like nature, or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying bait"

It is illegal. End of.

Bizzum

Lardy wrote: »

Wildlife Act, 1976
Here you go:

http://193.178.1.79/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0034.html#zza39y1976s34

"34.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to section 42, a person shall not—

(a) hunt any wild bird or wild mammal by means of a trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart, spear or similar device, instrument or missile, or birdlime or any substance of a like nature, or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying bait"

It is illegal. End of.

Certainly illegal in respect of protected wild birds and protected wild mammals. Rightly so. A rabbit ain't protected and is excluded by Section34 (2) (b)

Sparks

This came up too many times in the Hunting forum. I think this thread pretty clearly shows both why it's illegal in Ireland in terms of legislation and why it's a banned subject in the charter both here and in the hunting forum -- you just get too much noise and too little signal.

(If you want to skip all the noise by the way, this post is about the most concise explanation of the law involved).

Lardy

Agh, here now! The very first line clearly states "WILD MAMMAL" How do you read protected species from that? Be a man and admit you are clearly wrong.

Bizzum

Lardy wrote: »

Agh, here now! The very first line clearly states "WILD MAMMAL" How do you read protected species from that? Be a man and admit you are clearly wrong.

I am a man. Right, can I set a mousetrap to kill a mouse? You're interpretation would not allow me. Nor could I snare a rabbit or trap a rat? A pigeon doing damage to crops would be unprotected too.
I'm not for a second saying I've a bloodlust but I've discussed the legalities of this at length with NPWS and thus my conclusion.

Lardy

OK, I used a poor choice of words re "be a man" my apologies for that.

However, the problem you face is your choice of method, ie Bowhunting. The law clearly states "arrow" as not being a legal method. I also take you point on trapping Mice and Rats. I can only imagine that there is a claws some place about dispatching vermin. I can't stand over that however as I'm not a legal person and have no intention of reading the whole statute book!

The quoted text clearly states that it is illegal to hunt with a bow. (Arrow).

aaakev

Bizzum wrote: »

I am a man. Right, can I set a mousetrap to kill a mouse? You're interpretation would not allow me. Nor could I snare a rabbit or trap a rat? A pigeon doing damage to crops would be unprotected too.
I'm not for a second saying I've a bloodlust but I've discussed the legalities of this at length with NPWS and thus my conclusion.

your conclusion is wrong though your reading it as you want to see it. Section 2 which you mentioned makes exception for some of the original items mentioned like snares and nets, not arrows. If arrows were part of the exception they would be clearly mentioned.

By your logic on this i could go hunt foxes and goats with a bow too..

You are wrong on this and if someone in the NPWS said otherwise they are also wrong.

Sparks

Bizzum wrote: »

You're interpretation would not allow me. Nor could I snare a rabbit or trap a rat? A pigeon doing damage to crops would be unprotected too.

Keep reading the act, it's more than one line long.
For example, here's the full article you're quoting:

34.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to section 42, a person shall not—

(a) hunt any wild bird or wild mammal by means of a trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart, spear or similar device, instrument or missile, or birdlime or any substance of a like nature, or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying bait, or

(b) affix, place or set—

(i) any trap, snare or net for killing or taking a wild bird or a wild mammal, or

(ii) any line, hook or other device or instrument, calculated or likely to cause death or bodily injury to any wild bird or wild mammal coming in contact with it,

on any tree, pole, cairn or other structure in, or in the vicinity of, any place frequented by wild birds or by wild mammals, or

(c) lay any poisonous or poisoned substance or stupefying bait, being a substance or bait which is calculated or is likely to injure, or facilitate the capture of, a wild bird or a wild mammal, in, or in the vicinity of, any place mentioned in paragraph (b) of this subsection, or on any tree, pole, cairn or other structure in or in the vicinity of such place.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or render unlawful—

(a) the affixing, placing or setting of a trap, snare or net which for the time being stands approved for the purposes of this section by virtue of regulations under this section,

(b) the taking or killing by means of any such trap, snare or net of any wild bird which is not a protected wild bird or any wild mammal which is not a protected wild animal,

and nothing in the said subsection (1) shall make unlawful anything which is duly done pursuant to a statute (other than this Act) or statutory instrument, which is permitted to be done under such a statute or instrument or which is done pursuant to and in accordance with a licence or other permission granted or issued pursuant to such a statute or instrument or anything caused by or which results from, or is consequent upon or the effect of any other act or thing which is lawfully done.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to any of the following if done pursuant to and in accordance with a licence granted in that behalf by the Minister:

(a) the capture alive, on land specified in the licence by means of a trap, snare or net of any species of wild bird specified in the licence, for the purpose of propagating or of improving the quality of such species,

(b) the capture alive by means of nets of hares by or on behalf, or at the request, of a coursing club affiliated to the Irish Coursing Club,

(c) the capture alive by means of nets or other devices of hawks or falcons for the purpose of lawful falconry within the State,

(d) the capture alive of wild birds or wild mammals, for research or other scientific or educational purposes or for removal to a new habitat, or to a place specified in the licence.

(4) The Minister may by regulations declare a trap, snare or net which is of a particular type, class or description specified in the regulations—

(a) to be approved of for the purposes of this section and may, if he thinks fit, regulate its use as regards wild birds or wild mammals,

(b) to be a trap, snare or net to which subsection (6) of this section applies.

(5) Any person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(6) Any person who imports, other than pursuant to and in accordance with a licence granted by the Minister in that behalf, or who in the course of his trade or business sells a trap, snare or net which pursuant to subsection (4) of this section is for the time being declared by the Minister to be a trap, snare or net to which this subsection applies shall be guilty of an offence.

(7) A person shall not be convicted under this section and under section 22 or section 23 of this Act or section 8 of the Protection of Animals Act, 1911, in respect of the same act.

Emphasis mine. The list of approved traps is here and does include mousetraps:

3 (a) (ii) a spring trap which is not a gin trap and which is designed to secure either-

(I) the immediate death, or
(II) the immediate unconsciousness and subsequent death without intervening consciousness,

of wild birds or wild animals which it is designed to trap,

And yes, if it wasn't for that, you could be arrested for setting a mousetrap. In fact, if you set one of those "glue" type mousetraps, you still can be as they're not authorised (so they're basicly banned).

Also, you probably want to read the 2000 amendment to that article.


(Oh, and the pigeon thing is covered with a specific derogation from the Minister every year -- without which, they are protected, as are every other species of bird, without exception).

Bizzum

Sparks wrote: »

Keep reading the act, it's more than one line long.
For example, here's the full article you're quoting:


Emphasis mine. The list of approved traps is here and does include mousetraps:


And yes, if it wasn't for that, you could be arrested for setting a mousetrap. In fact, if you set one of those "glue" type mousetraps, you still can be as they're not authorised (so they're basicly banned).

Also, you probably want to read the 2000 amendment to that article.


(Oh, and the pigeon thing is covered with a specific derogation from the Minister every year -- without which, they are protected, as are every other species of bird, without exception).

Thanks for the input. I'm fully aware how long the act is, I was never under any illusions in that respect.
I've read the complete act many times.

I would contend that Sect 42 of said Act would allow me circumvent Sect 34.

Sparks

Bizzum wrote: »

I would contend that Sect 42 of said Act would allow me circumvent Sect 34.

Sure, but you'll be needing an actual written authorisation from the Minister's office. They're definitely not rare, but they're usually given out for shooting deer that are eating crops. And if you're going to ask for a section 42 to go bowhunting, I don't think you'd be successful for the same reason you wouldn't be successful if you asked for a section 42 to go hunting using the front bumper of a 4x4.

Recurve360

Bizzum wrote: »

I've had a look at the charter there. It appears you're right about one thing, ie. not discussing bowhunting.
However it's the only thing you're right on. Where I got my bows from has no relevance. You know nothing of my attitude to killing animals, but it's at the opposite end of the spectrum from where you think it is.
I'm not going to discuss bowhunting as it is against charter, but I do know the law. If you wish to PM me a link to the current Irish legislation, I'd be interested. I won't hold my breath though.

Strange reply that. Most things I made had a valid point. Several European countries have banned using bows for hunting. The reason for this is you have to be quite skilled to actually kill the animal. Most cases see the animal suffer because of a poor shot and ending up dying several hours/days later.

When you say you have the right to shoot a rabbit on your own land with a bow is the wrong attitude. If you want to shoot vermin use a gun. I didnt stipulate that you got some kind of kick out of doing it. And why I asked about where you got your bow, If you bought it in a hunting shop you should have been informed that bow hunting is illegal and why.

Not going to provide the legislation as it has already been posted and clearly indicates that it is illegal.

greysides

Gents, keep the debate to the issue and away from the personal/personnel!

This issue comes up every-so-often and it is worth having it out.

I'm not sure there is much left to debate unless we have a couple of legal eagles though......................

Bizzum

greysides wrote: »

Gents, keep the debate to the issue and away from the personal/personnel!

This issue comes up every-so-often and it is worth having it out.

I'm not sure there is much left to debate unless we have a couple of legal eagles though......................

Thanks for that Greysides. As you know I'm not some snot nosed teenager on a smartphone with some faux crusade.

I work in an area of law enforcement, thus am interested in the topic.
I'm currently in discussions with the relevant authorities. I'm trying to establish if a legal precedent exists, among other things.
In relation to what is being termed 'bowhunting' here, I'm satisfied that broadly speaking, for the vast majority of species it's clearly illegal, and rightly so. I have no desire to argue that toss. I have very specific questions I'm trying to get to the bottom of.
If I can establish a judgement on the issue I'll be happy to post it here.

NavanJames

I've no knowledge to add with regards to the legality of bowhunting in Ireland but the effectiveness of bows as hunting weapons has been amply demonstrated in North America over the past 80 odd years ... try googling 'Fred Bear', 'Saxton Pope', 'Art Young', the 'Thompson Brothers', etc. Lots of precedence! NJ