How do I tell my father I think he has a problem with alcohol?

glasswareted

Hi there, not sure if this is the right place to post this but I hope it is! Basically I need some advice on how to tell my Dad that I'm really worried about him and I think he has a problem. He is a very very proud man and I'm so worried he'll take it the wrong way.

He is the best Dad I could ever ask for and I love him dearly but lately I've seen the hold that alcohol has over him. I've been in Dublin for 4 years at college and now I'm graduated and back living at home sitting on the dole while trying to find a job. He is drinking about 6-7 times a week now. It's gotten to the point where I can't stand to be around him in the evenings because he ****es on so much, he's not a bad drunk to me, but he's pretty nasty to my mam.

This has been going on for years but because I've been at college and not living as home I guess I just wasn't as aware of it and whenever I'd come home for weekends and such both my mam and dad would make a bit of an effort so I never saw the true effects of his drinking. I was also in denial and always just thought it was normal because he's a country man and that's just what they do. The last straw came tonight when he asked me if I would give him a lift to the pub, even though he'd already been earlier on today. I asked him if he was being serious and he sulked away. I can see he was ashamed of asking and it just made it all too apparent to me that I need to say something.

I'm getting increasingly worried about his health and his and my mams marriage. They have never been what you would call a typical happy married couple, always at eachothers throat but just stayed with each other out of convenience. My mother has bi-polar depression and he holds a lot of resentment towards and has even told her on occasion that she is the reason he drinks.

I just don't know what to do or say. He's a very honest and intelligent man who is also very self-aware so I know that when I mention it that he won't exactly be surprised but I have no idea what to say or how to say it or what will even make a difference. He's highly functioning, has a few businesses, builds houses, up every morning at 8am, has a big vegetable garden he's out in all the time and he loves to cycle. So on the exterior he seems like a perfectly normal man but in the evenings he spends his whole time in the pub drinking with his friends, who actually drink more than him. I feel he looks at them and because they drink more than him he thinks he doesn't have a problem.

I want to break this code of silence that has been upon my house and family for years and address this elephant in the room but I don't know what to say or do. Has anyone had to do this before or have any pointers about what I could say or how I even start up the conversation? I was thinking of asking him to head down to his garden some time this week so we can have a chat because it's nice and calm down there, I don't know. Sorry for the rant, and I appreciate any help and advice anyone has!

tightropetom

I think keep it simple and to the point. You're worried about his drinking habits. Start with that and then let him do the talking.

Joe10000

Best of luck, it's a tough one but I'm not in a position to offer advice on such an issue, hope it ends well.

Micky Dolenz

Mod

Move from AH.

December2012

Have a look at drinkaware.ie and meas.ie.

Do you think he would respond better to you asking him his opinion, or you making a statement?

Eg

"Dad, why do you drink so much?"
Vs
"Dad I think you drink too much."

How does he deal with confrontation?

Would he respond better to your emotions (I'm so worried about you Dad), or a point about his emotions (you're so mean when you've taken drink)?

It's a tough place for you OP.

Make sure that one friend at least knows what's going on so you've somebody who will listen to you and support you.

Good luck.

daisybelle2008

OP, would you consider going to Al-anon for support on handling the situation? It is likely he could be in denial and resent your interference. The fact he blames your mothers condition for his drinking would indicate he may not wish to deal or accept responsibility for his drinking. You could end up a casualty in the firing line no matter how well intentioned.
You could get some good direction and advise from Al-anon first and then decide a course of action. Best of luck.

Catphish

glasswareted wrote: »

I was thinking of asking him to head down to his garden some time this week so we can have a chat because it's nice and calm down there, I don't know. Sorry for the rant, and I appreciate any help and advice anyone has!

This seems like the best idea. If you begin telling him that there is something that is worrying you a lot, I'm sure his ears will prick up and make him wonder what is bothering you. Be prepared though in case he becomes defensive about it. It takes some time for someone with alcoholism to accept that there is a problem there. They have to process what is being said to them and want to change their life style.

glasswareted

December2012 wrote: »

Have a look at drinkaware.ie and meas.ie.

Do you think he would respond better to you asking him his opinion, or you making a statement?

Eg

"Dad, why do you drink so much?"
Vs
"Dad I think you drink too much."

How does he deal with confrontation?

Would he respond better to your emotions (I'm so worried about you Dad), or a point about his emotions (you're so mean when you've taken drink)?

I think he will respond better to me asking him why he's drinking so much definitely! Its become a part of his reality now as opposed to a past time. He is typical countryman like I said and he rarely if ever expresses his emotions but I would never feel uncomfortable sharing my emotions with him as he's very open in that respect, I just think he find it hard to talk about his own emotions.

I feel the drinking has become his way of dealing with all his emotions. We've gone through some hard times in the past and he's always been the man to pick up the pieces and soldier on so I think he would feel inferior if he ever showed emotions or expressed that he was sad or lonely. In fact, I have never in my life heard my Dad tell me how he feels, maybe that's my own fault and I need to ask him how he is doing more. But like I said he has built this emotional wall and I have just been responding to that I guess.

He's very responsive to my emotions so I will definitely tell him that I am worried about him and I think that would be more effective but on top of that I think he might take the direct "you're so mean when you're drinking" not too badly either. Maybe I will try to tell him how I feel first and then tell him how he actually is when drunk.

Thank you so much for you advice, this has definitely made me think!

Not to worry, I have my brother who currently lives away from home whom I told all about it! He's in agreement that I need to say something and it's best coming from me as opposed to us both. I feel that would feel more like an intervention and would go horribly wrong. I want it to be more like a stern chat where I'm showing genuine concern and that he isn't hurt after

ivytwine

Hey OP, not really advice, but just to say you sound like a lovely person and your father is lucky to have someone like you in his life.

I hope he recognises his issue and things improve.

Best of luck!

shinesun

Op, I'm really sorry your going through this. It does not matter what you say, he has to admit it himself.

glasswareted

Update: Well I waited for him to go down to the garden, it was pretty much the best timing I could ask for, he was picking gooseberries from a few bushes and he would have to do all the bushes so it meant he had something to do while we talked. I started off by asking if it was okay if we talked and if we could have an open floor of communication where we listen to each other and don't interrupt. He was completely for it and said go on ahead. I proceeded to say that the vibe in the house was really negative and awkward and if he thought this was a nice environment to be in. He said no. I then said that the issue I wanted to talk about was his drinking. He actually finished the sentence as I was saying it, I knew I wasn't wrong when I said he was self-aware.

We said a lot and he kept bringing it back to Mam and how she was acting and how he wouldn't wanna be teared out of it in the evenings so he hits the pub. Then he said that of course this is only his perspective. I was pretty surprised by that because it's so obvious to me that the reason my Mam is so off with him is because of the drinking. This is something he is completely unaware of. So I explained that her issue with you is your drinking and your issue with her is her response to your drinking but you just think that it's her depression. I said that alcohol turned him into a person that I didn't want to be around. That he was a completely different person when he was drunk and that I found it difficult to be around him in the evenings. I didn't want to be too detailed and go into all the things he does when drunk cos I figured this is enough for him to hear for now.

I got the general feeling that he feels under appreciated, he said how he makes sure the house is right, the gardens are mowed, the vegetables are watered, any work he needs to do for the business is done, all before he goes drinking. And he comes home afterwards to cook dinner. I realise and appreciate so much all the work he does to keep us going but he's just that kinda man, he can't sit still for an hour without finding something to do. I said that I really appreciate everything he has done for us but that all that doesn't dismiss the issue, and that if there is an issue, it means you're just quite highly functional.

On several occasions, he almost admitted that he fears that he may have a problem. But he didn't quite get there. I asked him if myself or my brother were to come home every evening drunk would he be concerned. He then replied by explaining how he has never tried to change anyone because you can't change someone unless they want to change themselves. I knew what he was getting at unfortunately. So I said "So what you're basically saying is that even though I'm expressing my concern over your drinking, it won't really make a different at all?". "Yes". That hurt. Quite a considerable amount. I nearly started crying but I bucked up and continued on. I just said that I appreciate him being honest with me and that I would like for him to just think about the effects that his drinking have had on us in the past. He then apologised for he has handled situations in the past with regards to drink and said he knows it's had an effect.

It was weird, it was like we were constantly swaying from "Yes I have a problem that I am aware of and I need to do something about it" to "I don't have a problem, it's just a past time, but I could probably do with drinking less". So honestly I have no idea what impact, if any, it had on him. I took all your advice on board and I asked questions instead of stating too many facts. I'm glad I said all I said and I don't really think it could have gone any better. He was honest and listened completely, as did I. I just think his biggest issue really is accepting that my mams behaviour is in direct correlation to his drinking, I mean she'll always have depression but when she's pissed off at him the majority of the time it is because he said or did something while he was drinking.

Sorry if no one was interested, it was actually pretty cathartic to write this all down. And you know the way with conversations that last a long time, after a while you start to forget what was said and how it made you feel so it's nice to have it all written down. Just a big thank you to everyone who responded, it's lovely to go on the internet anonymously and be helped by considerate and kind strangers! Nothing will probably change with regards to my Dad but at least I know I tried.

username123

Op - you are the perfect person to go to Alanon. Its for people affected by other peoples alcoholism. Really the hardest part is admitting the person is an alcoholic and that their behaviour is affecting your life. And youve already done that!

You learn how to cope, how to behave towards the alcoholic, how not to make things worse, how not to be so affected yourself. Its only an hour a week and it really helps. I went for years over my own fathers alcoholism.

Your father said something that is very very true - you cant control or change someone else. But you can change yourself - so thats where you need to shift your focus.

There is something important in your last post also, you say that you were hurt by your father choosing his behaviour and drinking over your concerns. You have to remember that he is suffering in the grip of an addiction here. Its not your father saying that, its the addiction. For you or me to hear that - it hurts, because we would listen to the other persons concerns and not choose the drink over those concerns - right? But me and you are lucky people, we are not being controlled by our addiction to alcohol. So dont think badly of your father, Im sure he doesnt like being this way - no one would choose alcoholism if they were in their right minds and given a choice, unfortunately by the time there choice is to be made they are already in the grip of it.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and although the alcoholic can maintain a high functioning outer appearance for many many years (my father did too), eventually the cards fall and the body cannot continue under the sustained assault. Generally at that point the alcoholic begins to up the self medication and things really go to hell. It can get very very bad.

I wish you the best and hope you find peace with this situation.

glasswareted

Thank you for your reply! A lot of what you're saying is ringing very true. To be honest, I still haven't admitted to myself that he may be an alcoholic. I can't even write down that he is one. I still hope that he isn't. Even though all the signs point to it. Maybe in time this will change.

You're so right, it was difficult to hear that my concerns didn't really matter to him. I have to accept that I can't change him, he can only change himself. He goes off alcohol about once a year, sometimes upwards of 2 months but it never lasts. He does it for health reasons and to lose weight but he always goes back to his normal ways. Would a true alcoholic be able to give up drink for 2 months? I know he goes back on it but he doesn't seem to have much issues with being off it. I don't know, maybe I'm trying to convince myself further that he's not addicted.

Alanon sounds interesting! I looked up where my closest meeting is. My only worry is that it is based around God and the twelve step program that I find difficult to deal with. I'm not religious and would feel uncomfortable if the meetings were centred around prayer or God's teachings in how to deal with an alcoholic. But that's just me assuming here and I could be wrong!

username123

Yeah my Dad used to go off it for periods of time (usually Lent) as well. I know how hard it is to admit it. I struggled for a long time, in the face of evidence that I now look back on and wonder was I actually mad myself!! The truth is - I was a little mad myself. The disease of alcoholism (I mean disease in terms of addiction) has effects on lots of people as well as the drinker, it makes us all a little mad!

Its entirely possible he is just a heavy drinker, but I think you know when you express concerns to someone and they actually tell you that its not going to change them that thats a big warning sign - if your father told you he was concerned about your drinking wouldnt you look at it?

Also - his drinking is affecting you - so whether or not he is an alcoholic is irrelevant - his behaviour is impacting his family - end of story.

Yeah, Im atheist myself so I was worried about the God thing too. Its a common misconception that its religious - its not, its spiritual. I just inserted "nature" for the higher power in my mind. I firmly believe that nature, evolution etc are a higher power than little old me -so that worked for me. Certainly in Ireland you will come across people using a Catholic god most commonly as their interpretation - but its a case of each to their own. Some meetings have more of a religious slant than others (really depends on the members), I found a number of different ones that worked for me - they all have a different dynamic. The important things is - keep an open mind.

Have a read of this article - you might find it useful - it helped me. I found educating myself on alcoholism and the effects it has on family members very helpful actually - knowing what you are dealing with demystifies it quite a bit.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/137214-alcoholism-merry-go-round-named-denial.html

glasswareted

I'm pretty speechless after reading that link. You are much much wiser than me and have so much more experience with this that I'm sure it's so obvious to you that he's an alcoholic after reading my posts. After reading that post I'm fairly certain myself now too. F-uck. All the stuff about the provoker being the wife is all true, every last thing in that post is true and is exactly what is happening.

I would 100% have a hard look at myself if someone expressed concern over my drinking. In the past I have drank too much too regularly and decided that it wasn't good for my mental or physical health and I addressed the issues beneath why I Was drinking so much, usually my anxiety. Now I rarely drink and never get too drunk if I do. I guess I have some sort of privilege in that I can do that, without being addicted.

I really don't know what to do now. Is it possible for an alcoholic to realise he's an alcoholic? I might try an alanon class now definitely. I'm terrified though, and a bit embarrassed and ashamed. My father is a very well known man and if anyone that knew him happened to be there I think I would die. I want to protect his pride as much as possible. Which is probably just me enabling him.

What I'm finding hard to deal with is my feelings towards this. I feel quite angry that I can't just have a normal family with normal happy parents like everyone else I know. My father had lung cancer and he's in remission now, it was a terrible terrible time. And with my mother's bi-polar depression, there never is a feeling of normality. And I feel so selfish because I know others have it much much worse off and I'm sat here feeling very sorry for myself.

Seriously, thank you so much for posting, you have opened my eyes and my mind to a level I didn't even know existed.

username123

I want to answer this bit by bit.

glasswareted wrote: »

I'm pretty speechless after reading that link. You are much much wiser than me and have so much more experience with this that I'm sure it's so obvious to you that he's an alcoholic after reading my posts. After reading that post I'm fairly certain myself now too. F-uck. All the stuff about the provoker being the wife is all true, every last thing in that post is true and is exactly what is happening.

Ive just been through it and out the other side, its not really wisdom at all - you are just as wise, I promise!!

glasswareted wrote: »

I would 100% have a hard look at myself if someone expressed concern over my drinking. In the past I have drank too much too regularly and decided that it wasn't good for my mental or physical health and I addressed the issues beneath why I Was drinking so much, usually my anxiety. Now I rarely drink and never get too drunk if I do. I guess I have some sort of privilege in that I can do that, without being addicted.

Yes of course, and especially in Irish society, its totally acceptable to for people to drink too much - as you already said, he is in the pub with other people doing the same thing. My own father used to tell me about this guy in the pub who was a terrible alcoholic and that he wasnt as bad as this guy at all. Thing is, I knew the guys daughter, and he used to say the same things to her about my Dad!! They all used to compare themselves to each other and think they werent as bad - they were all alcoholics!

glasswareted wrote: »

I really don't know what to do now. Is it possible for an alcoholic to realise he's an alcoholic? I might try an alanon class now definitely. I'm terrified though, and a bit embarrassed and ashamed. My father is a very well known man and if anyone that knew him happened to be there I think I would die. I want to protect his pride as much as possible. Which is probably just me enabling him.

First of all - dont panic! Nothing is different except that you know more about what you are dealing with right?

Its totally normal to be terrified, embarrassed and ashamed with this. I was exactly the same. Angry too, very angry!!

Its normal to want to protect your father - I mean, this is just one aspect to him, he is a good man, a good father etc. No one is saying that you have to walk through the local town with a big sign saying he is an alcoholic - not at all. Alanon is totally anonymous - if you felt worried someone you know would see you, go to one further away. But remember, that everyone there will be feeling the same. It took me a while to get past the feeling of embarrassment actually, I remember overhearing the local barman refer to my father as "the village idiot" and I was horrified. And all the neighbours knew because of all the awful things he did in full view of them. But then I came to realise, I am not my father. There is no need for me to be embarrassed. And I started viewing it as a disease more, I wouldnt be embarrassed if he swore at someone because he was in pain from cancer right? So I wasnt embarrassed that he was in pain from alcoholism and it distorted his personality.

glasswareted wrote: »

What I'm finding hard to deal with is my feelings towards this. I feel quite angry that I can't just have a normal family with normal happy parents like everyone else I know. My father had lung cancer and he's in remission now, it was a terrible terrible time. And with my mother's bi-polar depression, there never is a feeling of normality. And I feel so selfish because I know others have it much much worse off and I'm sat here feeling very sorry for myself.

All the emotions you are going through are totally valid. I still feel annoyed sometimes that I had to go through it all! But everyone has stuff they have to go through - its life. Plenty have it worse, plenty have it easier, plenty have times its bad and times its good etc... You just have to learn how to get along with your feelings and cope in a positive way.

glasswareted wrote: »

Seriously, thank you so much for posting, you have opened my eyes and my mind to a level I didn't even know existed.

If you go to Alanon there will be a whole room of people offering you the same kind of support and understanding. It makes a big difference to talk to people who "get it".

The main thing for you is this: its ok. You can deal with this. There is always hope and there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel. There is a lot of support for this issue. Theres lots of good books and info on the internet too. Knowledge is power, when you understand something its not so scary.

Sometimes the people affected changing how they behave can make the alcoholic really look at themselves and decide to change - I have seen that happen.

MaroonAndGreen

Im sorry but I need to post this, the opposite side of the coin.

I would advise against Alanon.

I have been to meetings in different places, and my family members have been to Alanon. And my experience of it was negative.

It was great to get to speak about things with others, but the environment I found was often not aimed at helping people with alcohol difficulties, but complaining about them... ie ''my husband came home drunk and did x,y and z.. cant believe he would do that, fcuk sake'' and getting the sympathy replies ''oh thats awful how are you putting up with that'' etc. and there were even occasions where wives were being told to leave their homes by other members of Alanon, and even spending evenings putting plans for this in place, where all they had to go on was the wives words in Alanon.

I noticed that the most thing Alanon seemed to do was incite almost hatred in alot of people. It was unfair the amount of abuse and hatred there was put towards family members etc who had drinking problems, without the person being able to defend themselves. It seemed that there wasnt advice given on how to help a loved one stop their drinking, but that Alanon was there to give people sympathy over the ''injustice'' they were suffering at home by living with an alcoholic.

I soon grew sickened by this atmosphere and stopped attending the meetings.

And before you say that it must have been one bad apple among a lot of good ones, I had the same experience in 5 or 6 different meetings with Alanon.

I would also say that many things that were said in meetings were not kept confidential and I have heard stories told in meetings repeated again outside of the meetings.

Im ready for the probable criticism il get here from members of Alanon, but that was my experience.

There are 2 sides to everything OP.

I hope you sort out your troubles, I know its not easy.

username123

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

It seemed that there wasnt advice given on how to help a loved one stop their drinking, but that Alanon was there to give people sympathy over the ''injustice'' they were suffering at home by living with an alcoholic.

Its not aimed at telling a person how to stop someone elses drinking, its to give support to someone affected by someone elses drinking. You dont go for the alcoholic, you go for yourself.

I agree its not for everyone. Some people dont dig the kind of support that is offered. I was lucky and I did. I found the cathartic aspect of simply being able to blurb out all the bad stuff I was feeling without judgement very healing. I am very sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I hope you have managed to come to peace with your own situation.

bluefinger

Try yourdrinking.ie theres a section on what to do if you think a family member has a drink problem.