Archery, Arrowsmithing and Fletching Thread

Watch Ryder

Making the Fletchings and the Arrow

The Bow itself:

A very useful and underrated bit of equipment for survival.

When the bullets and other things that go bang run out, this is what some of us will be back to...

Interesting thread, I've long considered attempting to fashion a bow out of yew - my woodwork skills aren't the greatest, but it'd be fun to try out!

Druss.

Watch Ryder

laoch na mona

interesting I have a bow and have managed to become reasonably competent with it. my friends da made a bow and arrows which still gets some use

Doc Ruby

I've been sorely tempted to get a takedown recurve bow lately but other than target practise it wouldn't have much use in this country.

ron jambo

Jaysus, wellcome back, its been kinda quite with you gone.

Doc Ruby

Cheers Ron, I'd expect the good weather's been keeping everyone busy.

booom

practice, practice, practice. if it all kicked off suddenly i doubt you'd have much of a debate over the legals of bowhunting. it made me laugh when i saw those poor blokes in the uk 'prepping' with a catapult. i could see the two of them starving cos they couldn't hit snow off a rope with what they were using. recurves are great fun and i just got myself a compound- to be honest; i'd prefer to be looking at it than for it. go and treat yourself- use your imagination as far as targets go (stump shooting a football in the back garden is good for the eye) or join a field shooting club.

Doc Ruby

booom wrote: »

practice, practice, practice. if it all kicked off suddenly i doubt you'd have much of a debate over the legals of bowhunting.

True enough plus it's a fun hobby, lots of people do it just for the craic. I like to put my gear to good use and generally kick the shit out of it though, used just about everything I have this summer in the wilds of Connemara and will likely spend the winter repairing the damage done in the process.

Also I'd be concerned about making a fist of bowhunting for the first while, it seems to mostly consist of sitting in one place then tracking the blood trails until the beast collapses. Awful easy to mess that up and maybe better to use snares, lines and nets which I'm pretty good with. Catapults not a hope, I had one for a while and ended up giving it to my brother since barn doors were starting to look like fifty points on a dartboard. I'm considering putting some effort into Greek-style slinging though, that's the real deal.

Ach I'm 50-50. Bottom line is it's cool so I'll probably get one.

fenris

The best thing to do if you are considering getting a bow and actually using it, is to do a course with your local archery club.
You would be amazed at how often beginners can miss a 3' target 5m away, but by the same token those same people are getting good groups at 15m a few weeks later.

Modern recurve bows are fast, that means a light bow can throw an arrow very quickly compared to a heavy traditional bow. Even over 20m there is a very noticeable lag in the time to target of an arrow from a traditional bow compared to a modern recurve.

There is a very definite muscle development, recruitment and conditioning phase to archery and it is great to see it happening for beginners, they start off drawing the bow using their arms then over time if they are using good form something clicks and they are suddenly using their bigger shoulder and back muscles and suddenly they feel like they are using a kids bow, then it goes away and they spend some time chasing it again, get annoyed and relax a bit, then hey presto it's back!

You start off with a very light bow and shoot lots of arrows with good form concentrating on repetition and good groupings, then as your body and brain figures out what is going on and you learn proper technique you can move onto heavier bows to give you distance with tight groups.

Starting with a heavy bow can cause a bit of physical damage as you use the wrong muscles and end up with back and shoulder problems and never develop the consistency needed to shoot accurately, simply because you cannot physically shoot enough arrows from the heavier bow with your body using the same muscles as your body will end up compensating with whatever it can as small stabilising muscles fatigue causing your shoulders to pop up or your chest to move in mysterious ways resulting in inconsistent anchor points, draw lengths and releases. Your average archeologist can tell the skeleton of an archer from back in the good old days due to the formation of the shoulder and arm bones, adaptations that enabled them to use the heavy traditional bows.

If you think about it and assume that the bow and arrows are 100% consistent between shots and the only other variable is the archer, you can see the impact of an inconsistent draw length = more power / less power, wandering anchor points = same as loose sights on a rifle and a poor release effectively twanging the string = is like snatching the trigger. Any one of the above would ruin a shot and the chances are that most people have them all at the same time, especially it they are tired and untrained.

We haven't even touched inconsistencies in the bow, string or arrows, so the logical approach is to eliminate as many of the archer related variables then through experience (practice) compensate for equipment related issues.

I reckon that for an archer to be of any real use you need to take advantage of the relatively easily available modern equipment and then start phasing in the more traditional materials. I know a few lads that shoot traditional and make their own arrows etc. and that is the path taken as it allows you to eliminate variables to get to the root of any problems, it is also no harm to have people around that can share their experience.

There are some easily available bow and arrow building kits out there to start off with that also include the basic bow making tools, I am going to build a cheap one with the kids as an over the winter project.

Field shooting is a great way of learning to estimate distance, counter uneven ground, cope with wind, shooting up hill, downhill across dead ground, shots where your brain is telling you to do the wrong thing even though you know better etc. not to mention the all important art of digging arrows out of trees and finding arrows that seemingly teleport to random locations under spiky bushes!

Watch Ryder

Yep, here's the latest videos of arrowmaking.

Watch Ryder

How to make an arrow, into a crossbow bolt!

Just shortening and trimming, cutting and smoothing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrip3kcaCzU

aaakev

Watch Ryder wrote: »

How to make an arrow, into a crossbow bolt!

Just shortening and trimming, cutting and smoothing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrip3kcaCzU

unfortunately for us here in Ireland crossbows are restricted firearms and as such have stricter licencing laws than a .308 Rifle! i think you could count on one hand how many are actually licensed in the country....

Watch Ryder

aaakev wrote: »

unfortunately for us here in Ireland crossbows are restricted firearms and as such have stricter licencing laws than a .308 Rifle! i think you could count on one hand how many are actually licensed in the country....

Wow I thought the crossbow license was pretty easy, just fill out the paperwork and land and you're golden? Maybe a shooting club would help grease the wheels for that?

aaakev

Watch Ryder wrote: »

Wow I thought the crossbow license was pretty easy, just fill out the paperwork and land and you're golden? Maybe a shooting club would help grease the wheels for that?

Land wouldn't help, we can't hunt with any sort of a bow over here! Target club is your only bet unfortunately and with no competitions or that it would cost a hell of a lot to just shoot some targets..... Bows are all good though

Watch Ryder

aaakev wrote: »

Land wouldn't help, we can't hunt with any sort of a bow over here! Target club is your only bet unfortunately and with no competitions or that it would cost a hell of a lot to just shoot some targets..... Bows are all good though

Can you not designate the land as a target range? That's how you get to shoot on it in the UK.

aaakev

Watch Ryder wrote: »

Can you not designate the land as a target range? That's how you get to shoot on it in the UK.

Because crossbows are classed exactly the same as a restricted rifle, ie a centre fire semi auto, id imagine the requirements for a range would be the same as a shooting range!

Watch Ryder

aaakev wrote: »

Because crossbows are classed exactly the same as a restricted rifle, ie a centre fire semi auto, id imagine the requirements for a range would be the same as a shooting range!

Classed as requiring a license, but no more than an air-rifle license I expect.
1/2 acre of land was enough for shotgun and crossbow when I saw it done (in Eire).

aaakev

Watch Ryder wrote: »

Classed as requiring a license, but no more than an air-rifle license I expect.
1/2 acre of land was enough for shotgun and crossbow when I saw it done (in Eire).

Nope, restricted just like i said. Application goes to the chief super!

Where did you see a crossbow range in ireland thinking about it i think archery can be done anywhere so possibly crossbow shooting would be the same but the licensing is very restricted

Watch Ryder

aaakev wrote: »

Nope, restricted just like i said. Application goes to the chief super!

Where did you see a crossbow range in ireland thinking about it i think archery can be done anywhere so possibly crossbow shooting would be the same but the licensing is very restricted

Yeah restricted but you apply to see if you get.

When my uncle applied to the Chief they sent two of the local plod/Garda out who gave the ok for a small 1/2 acre field but not the smaller 1/4 acre holding.

aaakev

Watch Ryder wrote: »

Yeah restricted but you apply to see if you get.

When my uncle applied to the Chief they sent two of the local plod/Garda out who gave the ok for a small 1/2 acre field but not the smaller 1/4 acre holding.

The requirements for a restricted firearm are alot stricter than an unrestricted firearm like say a .270 rifle for hunting deer. You also need to show good reason for requiring each firearm so as for the crossbow you would be required to show membership of an authorised range that caters for crossbow shooting.

Because of that i find it had to believe your story about your uncle

Watch Ryder

aaakev wrote: »

The requirements for a restricted firearm are alot stricter than an unrestricted firearm like say a .270 rifle for hunting deer. You also need to show good reason for requiring each firearm so as for the crossbow you would be required to show membership of an authorised range that caters for crossbow shooting.

Because of that i find it had to believe your story about your uncle

All I can say it's bizarre they have that classification. Maybe the Garda weren't clued-in? This was a very rural county too. The land deal fell-apart so the final say-so was never reached so I guess it's a moot point.

aaakev

Watch Ryder wrote: »

All I can say it's bizarre they have that classification. Maybe the Garda weren't clued-in? This was a very rural county too. The land deal fell-apart so the final say-so was never reached so I guess it's a moot point.

It was more the case that no one was bothered about them or talking about them when the regulations were being drawn up so they were lumped in with the restricted firearms as an afterthought without any consideration.

Local guards have zero say over range requirements, there is a special officer for that and ranges have to be built to very exact specifications costing thousands and thousands.

Now for clays you could do it anywhere, once your not disturbing your neighbours you can do it in a field behind your house!

If you want to keep talking about this give me a PM because we have gone way off topic!

Back on topic though, I am thinking about getting a bow, what would you recommend? Recurve or compound?

Watch Ryder

aaakev wrote: »

It was more the case that no one was bothered about them or talking about them when the regulations were being drawn up so they were lumped in with the restricted firearms as an afterthought without any consideration.

Local guards have zero say over range requirements, there is a special officer for that and ranges have to be built to very exact specifications costing thousands and thousands.

Now for clays you could do it anywhere, once your not disturbing your neighbours you can do it in a field behind your house!

If you want to keep talking about this give me a PM because we have gone way off topic!

Back on topic though, I am thinking about getting a bow, what would you recommend? Recurve or compound?

Recurve, it's old school and has no fancy mechanisms that can fail. These bows are more instinctive and take a lot of practice to get good.

Forget compound unless you want complications with a degree more precision. These bows tend to be more mechanical, like a rifle or firearm where your aim has to aligned more sweetly. It does have a degree more consistency though.

yubabill1

aaakev wrote: »

Back on topic though, I am thinking about getting a bow, what would you recommend? Recurve or compound?

There is a long learning curve if you don't have anyone to show you how to shoot.

I've been shooting seriously bows since 1979 and have owned everything, including several decent crossbows. I've had a Howard Hill bamboo longbow since 1993 and it's all I need. I assemble my own arrows.

I recommend getting a simple starter bow from Quicks (they don't sell rubbish) and don't be afraid to buy something they recommend for kids - you will be surprised at the quality and consistency - cheap is OK for starter

https://www.quicksarchery.co.uk/superbasket/index.php

Decent arrows are essential - you don't need the expensive ones, wooden arrows from Quicks will be fine (field tips are best for general rough-and-ready shooting) the biggest problem you will find is losing them, so start with pretty basic ones.

keep away from archery equipment you find in gun/tackle shops - it's rubbish.

You will need a finger tab and a bracer - any will do.

I recommend you start with a bow around 35lbs draw weight to develop your skills (- like starting shooting with a .22, rather than a .308).

When you have developed a bit of technique, get a 40 or 45lb bow.

I like Howard Hill's shooting method - should be on Google - he was an incredible archer in the mid 20th century.

If you want a lovely book, "Hunting with the bow and arrow" by Dr Saxton Pope is fabulous.

fenris

For a first bow you should be in the mid twenties poundage range, so that you can develop the proper muscalature and technique. You need to bring all of the little muscles along too.
You might be able to pickup and shoot a 36lb bow, but can you shoot 100 arrows with it in a single session without shoulders lifting, anchor point wandering and releasing like you got stung by a wasp?
Start light, get it right then swap in heavier limbs after a few months, the price of a set of light limbs it's about the same as a session or two with a physio :-)
Best move is to do some training with a club, they will have training bows that you will outgrow on the course with the added benefit of being properly trained and gaining a few contacts your area who a bit further along and will able to give good advice on gear etc.
You need to seek out the field archers.

Watch Ryder

Just a quick vid I made showing arrow shipping...

Tactical

Am I correct in thinking that archery equipment isn't classified as firearms and are exempt from licensing? Obviously excluding crossbows.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Tactical wrote:

Am I correct in thinking that archery equipment isn't classified as firearms and are exempt from licensing? Obviously excluding crossbows.

Yup you need a license for an Xbow (not sure how difficult it is to get one though). You can buy a bow but hunting with a bow in Ireland is illegal though. Also not 100% on the law regarding arrowhead types. Can you own broadheads or bodkin types, I'm not sure.

Watch Ryder

Athena Orange Taskmaster wrote: »

Yup you need a license for an Xbow (not sure how difficult it is to get one though). You can buy a bow but hunting with a bow in Ireland is illegal though. Also not 100% on the law regarding arrowhead types. Can you own broadheads or bodkin types, I'm not sure.

Both, just say it's for 3d archery. An archer who hunts overseas has to practice afterall.

Tactical

Athena Orange Taskmaster wrote: »

Yup you need a license for an Xbow (not sure how difficult it is to get one though). You can buy a bow but hunting with a bow in Ireland is illegal though. Also not 100% on the law regarding arrowhead types. Can you own broadheads or bodkin types, I'm not sure.

Thanks for the info.

No interest in a crossbow, or hunting with any sort of bow. Target floats my boat.

I'll do my research before any sort of purchase.