I would have dropped BOD too

stpaddy99

Im one of BOD's greatest fans, I love the man, hes probably our greatest player ever and along with georgie best and others one of our greatest ever sportsmen.

I also think he was playing reasonably well on tour.

I just thought Jonathon davies was superb all tour and in the 6 nations and ultimately on form I think he deserved the selection. he makes breaks, hes quick, he scores crucial tries for wales, his pop passing is great and he runs great lines... It was tough for him out of position at 12, but he did a good job, but at 13 hes been superb. hes also been supberb in some of the games Ive seen him play at the scarlets too.

I also thought Roberts brought a different dimension at inside centre
he is a huge man, but hes smart too, runs great angles, breaks the gain line and offloads in the tackles

theyre used to each other, defensively theyre monsters too

the media coverage was absurd and I was sad to hear the mighty willie john and woody and now the great POC complaining about this

many greats haven't been selected by the lions, its the dream team, so its hard....carling didn't get picked in 1993 despite the English grand slams, dallaglio didn't make it in 2001 as quinnell got his spot, ogara got edged out by Stephen jones despite ROG being a way better kicker, last tour shane Williams was world player of the year and wasn't selected until the 3rd test when he scored 2 tries in the lions only win, yet nothing was said.

it was on form and I think gats was right

as for tuilagi on the bench over BOD now that was a very marginal call that Id probably not have made. yes Id have LOVED LOVED LOVED to see BOD come on but sadly sport doesn't always happen like that.

gats got massive abuse, undeservedly so, it wasn't malicious he simply picked what he believed was the best team to get the win, it was a record win in the end, so fair play to gats.

BOD got his lions victory, hes won the Heineken 3 times, grand slam, 6 nations titles, 130 ish caps 40 odd tries.....he will get statues all over Dublin

so alls well that ends well , now lets stuff those taffs next 6 nations:D

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Davies was abysmal all season. In fairness he played well during the Lions tour but BOD did well in warm-ups too and is still significantly better in every aspect of 13 play

Picking Davies still makes little sense to me, especially considering the muted role the 13 had in Gatlands game plan. And despite strangling him in attack, it was a role that suited BOD a lot better than Davies given his superiority in defense

I actually think Manu T is a better 13 than BOD at the moment, one of the best in the world imo. Once his defense and decision making improve I think no one will hold a candle to him

neilmulvey

stpaddy99 wrote: »

Im one of BOD's greatest fans, I love the man, hes probably our greatest player ever and along with georgie best and others one of our greatest ever sportsmen.

I also think he was playing reasonably well on tour.

I just thought Jonathon davies was superb all tour and in the 6 nations and ultimately on form I think he deserved the selection. he makes breaks, hes quick, he scores crucial tries for wales, his pop passing is great and he runs great lines... It was tough for him out of position at 12, but he did a good job, but at 13 hes been superb. hes also been supberb in some of the games Ive seen him play at the scarlets too.

I also thought Roberts brought a different dimension at inside centre
he is a huge man, but hes smart too, runs great angles, breaks the gain line and offloads in the tackles

theyre used to each other, defensively theyre monsters too

the media coverage was absurd and I was sad to hear the mighty willie john and woody and now the great POC complaining about this

many greats haven't been selected by the lions, its the dream team, so its hard....carling didn't get picked in 1993 despite the English grand slams, dallaglio didn't make it in 2001 as quinnell got his spot, ogara got edged out by Stephen jones despite ROG being a way better kicker, last tour shane Williams was world player of the year and wasn't selected until the 3rd test when he scored 2 tries in the lions only win, yet nothing was said.

it was on form and I think gats was right

as for tuilagi on the bench over BOD now that was a very marginal call that Id probably not have made. yes Id have LOVED LOVED LOVED to see BOD come on but sadly sport doesn't always happen like that.

gats got massive abuse, undeservedly so, it wasn't malicious he simply picked what he believed was the best team to get the win, it was a record win in the end, so fair play to gats.

BOD got his lions victory, hes won the Heineken 3 times, grand slam, 6 nations titles, 130 ish caps 40 odd tries.....he will get statues all over Dublin

so alls well that ends well , now lets stuff those taffs next 6 nations:D

The Lions was used by Gatland as a prep tour for the welsh world cup plans in 2 years. Thats why having a current coach on sabbatical is a bad idea

Aidric

Just when you thought it was safe to come back on the rugby forum..

duckysauce

stpaddy99 wrote: »

Im one of BOD's greatest fans, I love the man, hes probably our greatest player ever and along with georgie best and others one of our greatest ever sportsmen.

I also think he was playing reasonably well on tour.

I just thought Jonathon davies was superb all tour and in the 6 nations and ultimately on form I think he deserved the selection. he makes breaks, hes quick, he scores crucial tries for wales, his pop passing is great and he runs great lines... It was tough for him out of position at 12, but he did a good job, but at 13 hes been superb. hes also been supberb in some of the games Ive seen him play at the scarlets too.

I also thought Roberts brought a different dimension at inside centre
he is a huge man, but hes smart too, runs great angles, breaks the gain line and offloads in the tackles

theyre used to each other, defensively theyre monsters too

the media coverage was absurd and I was sad to hear the mighty willie john and woody and now the great POC complaining about this

many greats haven't been selected by the lions, its the dream team, so its hard....carling didn't get picked in 1993 despite the English grand slams, dallaglio didn't make it in 2001 as quinnell got his spot, ogara got edged out by Stephen jones despite ROG being a way better kicker, last tour shane Williams was world player of the year and wasn't selected until the 3rd test when he scored 2 tries in the lions only win, yet nothing was said.

it was on form and I think gats was right

as for tuilagi on the bench over BOD now that was a very marginal call that Id probably not have made. yes Id have LOVED LOVED LOVED to see BOD come on but sadly sport doesn't always happen like that.

gats got massive abuse, undeservedly so, it wasn't malicious he simply picked what he believed was the best team to get the win, it was a record win in the end, so fair play to gats.

BOD got his lions victory, hes won the Heineken 3 times, grand slam, 6 nations titles, 130 ish caps 40 odd tries.....he will get statues all over Dublin

so alls well that ends well , now lets stuff those taffs next 6 nations:D

duckysauce

stpaddy99 wrote: »

Im one of BOD's greatest fans, I love the man, hes probably our greatest player ever and along with georgie best and others one of our greatest ever sportsmen.

I also think he was playing reasonably well on tour.

I just thought Jonathon davies was superb all tour and in the 6 nations and ultimately on form I think he deserved the selection. he makes breaks, hes quick, he scores crucial tries for wales, his pop passing is great and he runs great lines... It was tough for him out of position at 12, but he did a good job, but at 13 hes been superb. hes also been supberb in some of the games Ive seen him play at the scarlets too.

I also thought Roberts brought a different dimension at inside centre
he is a huge man, but hes smart too, runs great angles, breaks the gain line and offloads in the tackles

theyre used to each other, defensively theyre monsters too

the media coverage was absurd and I was sad to hear the mighty willie john and woody and now the great POC complaining about this

many greats haven't been selected by the lions, its the dream team, so its hard....carling didn't get picked in 1993 despite the English grand slams, dallaglio didn't make it in 2001 as quinnell got his spot, ogara got edged out by Stephen jones despite ROG being a way better kicker, last tour shane Williams was world player of the year and wasn't selected until the 3rd test when he scored 2 tries in the lions only win, yet nothing was said.

it was on form and I think gats was right

as for tuilagi on the bench over BOD now that was a very marginal call that Id probably not have made. yes Id have LOVED LOVED LOVED to see BOD come on but sadly sport doesn't always happen like that.

gats got massive abuse, undeservedly so, it wasn't malicious he simply picked what he believed was the best team to get the win, it was a record win in the end, so fair play to gats.

BOD got his lions victory, hes won the Heineken 3 times, grand slam, 6 nations titles, 130 ish caps 40 odd tries.....he will get statues all over Dublin

so alls well that ends well , now lets stuff those taffs next 6 nations:D

Bod teaching his pupils a lesson

Gatty deserved the abuse he got, he built Brain up no end for the second test, greatest lion blah blah blah then treats him like dirt. If Beale wore the right boots, or Deans didn't have issues with Cooper, it would be a different story for Gatland

jm08

stpaddy99 wrote: »

shane Williams was world player of the year and wasn't selected until the 3rd test when he scored 2 tries in the lions only win, yet nothing was said.

Shane Williams was the IRB Player of the year in 2008. His form was terrible in 2009 and definately made the '09 tour on reputation. He got more chances than anyone else (5 starts and 3 sub appearances). They kept playing him hoping he would come into form - he eventually did in the last test when it was too late.

PS - Willie Joh, Woody & POC are only 3 people who thought it was a bad idea. Others neutrals include Ian McGeechan, Dan Carter, Sonny Bill, Will Carling and many, many more.

stpaddy99

yes and they were all wrong...many did though back davies, like woodward and guscott....Jonathon davies was fantastic....in one game against I think NSW was the performance of the tour....he created 4 or 5 tries, scored 1, kicked well, passed well, tackled like a demon.....he was superb for the scarlets when I saw them in a weak side, I think he scored against the wallabies the last time they played wales too....him and Roberts have played loads together too and it worked

I think it makes us look like idiots to here us all moan about this before and even moreso to moan afterwards despite our record win ever? whats the matter with us mun....we had bowe, poc had 2 tests, bod 2 tests, healy was superb and nailed on before injury, sob was great, murray came on and did a job, Jamie has 2 tests....we didn't do badly out of the tour and we won? I just don't get the vitriol and hatred. some years the lions get more english, some years more welsh, some years more irish, that's how it goes, it usually hinges on 6 nations etc Its very disappointing for me to see this? we are known as the most sporting people normally , but all ive read is fellow irish fans all over the net saying how they wanted lions to lose and abusing gatland? weve lost the plot here. Im really depressed about it. gatland said he didn't even celebrate the win due to the endless verbal abuse. its this hatred and threatening abuse which ruins everything and may ruin the lions too. very very sad

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

yes and they were all wrong...many did though back davies, like woodward and guscott....Jonathon davies was fantastic....in one game against I think NSW was the performance of the tour....he created 4 or 5 tries, scored 1, kicked well, passed well, tackled like a demon.....he was superb for the scarlets when I saw them in a weak side, I think he scored against the wallabies the last time they played wales too....him and Roberts have played loads together too and it worked

I think it makes us look like idiots to here us all moan about this before and even moreso to moan afterwards despite our record win ever? whats the matter with us mun....we had bowe, poc had 2 tests, bod 2 tests, healy was superb and nailed on before injury, sob was great, murray came on and did a job, Jamie has 2 tests....we didn't do badly out of the tour and we won? I just don't get the vitriol and hatred. Its very disappointing for me to see this? we are known as the most sporting people normally , but all ive read is fellow irish fans all over the net saying how they wanted lions to lose and abusing taland? weve lost the plot here. Im really depressed about it. gatland said he didn't even celebrate the win due to the endless verbal abuse. its this hatred and threatening abuse which ruins everything and may ruin the lions too. very very sad

Calm down Mrs Gatland!

Tim Robbins

I saw Davies in a few Magners Leagues game and was thinking nothing special.
I would still say BOD was the best player in either the Lions or the Oz team.

AngeGal

Did this really need a new thread? It's been done to death on here.

duckysauce

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I saw Davies in a few Magners Leagues game and was thinking nothing special.
I would still say BOD was the best player in either the Lions or the Oz team.

Genia or 1/2 coin were the best players for me . Bod was way ahead of Davies though just look at his tackle count.

Rightwing

duckysauce wrote: »

Genia or 1/2 coin were the best players for me .

Absolutely.

All this fuss about BOD I just don't get it.

I hope Schmidt is also planning on replacing him, but not in such a ruthless fashion.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely.

All this fuss about BOD I just don't get it.

I hope Schmidt is also planning on replacing him, but not in such a ruthless fashion.

It was a decision that made little sense, was done with no class, and he was replaced with an inferior player, that's the fuss

And obviously Schmidt is planning on replacing him, he's retiring at the end of the season.

stpaddy99

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

It was a decision that made little sense, was done with no class, and he was replaced with an inferior player, that's the fuss

And obviously Schmidt is planning on replacing him, he's retiring at the end of the season.

complete and utter nonsense
davies was superb....hes taken wales to world cup semis, 2 six nations titles and a grand slam, hes an immense defender scores tries, hes a big man at 16 and half stones and at this stage in his career hes quicker than bod....defensively he is immense, he kicks like a mule and his angles of running and pop passing were great.

bod wasn't anywhere near his best

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

complete and utter nonsense
davies was superb....hes taken wales to world cup semis, 2 six nations titles and a grand slam, hes an immense defender scores tries, hes a big man at 16 and half stones and at this stage in his career hes quicker than bod....defensively he is immense, he kicks like a mule and his angles of running and pop passing were great.

bod wasn't anywhere near his best

Well I'd counter ball of hyperbole that by saying that BOD, even though he's no longer at his peak, still does everything Davies does a lot better (Davies kicking was good in the third test, but it's rarely that effective or consistent)

Davies certainly isn't fast either, maybe faster than BOD but I'm not even sure of that

Also, your entire opinion of his strengths seem to be based on his performances against poor Australian franchises, granted he was solid in the tests, and good in the third, but he was poor all season. He largely travelled because of a lack of quality centres in the British Isles

jm08

stpaddy99 wrote: »

yes and they were all wrong...many did though back davies, like woodward and guscott....

Woodward said he should have been in the matchday squad.

Guscott Q&A before the final test: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23143899

O'Driscoll deserves his spot. Leading into the Tests he played well and every team needs its leaders. With Warburton out of the last Test, O'Driscoll could well be captain. The pairing of Jonathan Davies and O'Driscoll in the centres was never going to be the perfect match and personally, if Roberts is fit for the weekend, I'd bring in either him or Tuilagi to partner O'Driscoll.

Davies put himself in no-man's land for the Adam Ashley-Cooper try on Saturday, he came to help O'Driscoll stop James O'Connor when he didn't need to. O'Driscoll's defence is still top drawer and everybody can throw the odd loose pass, but he doesn't make a habit of that.

Rightwing

jm08 wrote: »

Woodward said he should have been in the matchday squad.

Guscott Q&A before the final test: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23143899[/QUOTE]

Even if he only had 1 leg he should have been in the squad, that's where I'm critical of Gatty. He damaged BOD's legacy.

phog

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I saw Davies in a few Magners Leagues game and was thinking nothing special.
I would still say BOD was the best player in either the Lions or the Oz team.

He may be the best player of the two squads but he certainly wasn't the player of the tournament nor to be honest was he even close, though that wasn't his fault, more to do with the game plan.

Either way, I don't agree with the op.

duckysauce

stpaddy99 wrote: »

complete and utter nonsense
davies was superb....hes taken wales to world cup semis, 2 six nations titles and a grand slam, hes an immense defender scores tries, hes a big man at 16 and half stones and at this stage in his career hes quicker than bod....defensively he is immense, he kicks like a mule and his angles of running and pop passing were great.

bod wasn't anywhere near his best

put on some sun cream tomorrow

thomond2006

I think it's time to get over this tbh.

Tox56

stpaddy99 wrote: »

defensively he is immense, he kicks like a mule and his angles of running and pop passing were great.

Are you talking about Davies or BOD? I suspect the former but that description would be far more appropriate for the latter, both generally and on this tour.

yosser hughes

You would have droped BOD as well?
Good man.
You're never likely to be in a position to drop anybody.
thankfully.

In fairness you're very badly informed about the game.

bilston

When are the Pro 12 fixtures announced? We badly need something else to discuss!

Swan Curry

bilston wrote: »

When are the Pro 12 fixtures announced? We badly need something else to discuss!

You always know there's nothing to discuss on the rugby forum when the Gavin Henson thread stays on the front page...

Conas

I agree with the opening post to a certain extent.

BOD is our greatest player ever no doubt about it. But I'm going to be honest and say after the 2009 Lions tour, having won the Grand Slam and Heineken Cup, BOD's playing career has been on the slide ever since. There are time he's played very poorly with Leinster and Ireland, he gets away with it because there's no one to replace him. Look back to the 2011 Heineken Cup Final, there was very obvious proof that he had lost a lot of his pace, and he was shown up in defence badly for Foden's try. I don't think he had a great World Cup either. He's been very hot and cold, having said that he did have a great game in the 2012 Heineken Cup final.

But the truth is he's 34, he's not in 20s. So naturally he's not going to have the legs to go on forever. Davies is a lot more of physical presence in midfield, it's kinda of why he picked SOB over Tipuric on the openside, more of a physical presence too, and it all worked out really well. The game is heading that way. I think you'll see a lot taller more physical centres in the future. That's why I'm worried about our midfield in Ireland, it's not big enough. Example being BOD, D'arcy, McFadden, Earls.

stpaddy99

BOD is an all time great slightly past his best....Jonathon davies is world class....he will go on to win 100 caps and score 30 odd tries....hes already won 6 nations twice and 38 test caps....at this moment in time he is better than bod is now....theres certain players than catch my eye, in the backs in Scotland you have visser (where was he) maitland hogg and blair.....in England you have tuilagi, youngs, Farrell and ashton despite his attitude and awful defence, of those tuilagi is probably my favourite as he breaks defences and finishes tries... in wales you have hapenny, Cuthbert , north, Phillips Roberts and davies.....of those hapenny and davies are my faves...its just their time at the moment, its in cycles, were still in transition with BOD and darcy nearing their end, murphy gone, rog gone, but still sexton murray are class, earles is a danger, fitzgerald, kearney etc and will probably get our hot period in 2 years time

I just think we need to draw a line under this now, its not healthy to get so bitter about it. davies was better than BOD on this tour and he deserved his chance at 13.
he was absolutely superb

Conas

stpaddy99 wrote: »

BOD is an all time great slightly past his best....Jonathon davies is world class....he will go on to win 100 caps and score 30 odd tries....hes already won 6 nations twice and 38 test caps....at this moment in time he is better than bod is now....theres certain players than catch my eye, in the backs in Scotland you have visser (where was he) maitland hogg and blair.....in England you have tuilagi, youngs, Farrell and ashton despite his attitude and awful defence, of those tuilagi is probably my favourite as he breaks defences and finishes tries... in wales you have hapenny, Cuthbert , north, Phillips Roberts and davies.....of those hapenny and davies are my faves...its just their time at the moment, its in cycles, were still in transition with BOD and darcy nearing their end, murphy gone, rog gone, but still sexton murray are class, earles is a danger, fitzgerald, kearney etc and will probably get our hot period in 2 years time

To be honest I don't really see any transition on the horizon once it comes to the midfield. I have a feeling that Drico and D'Arcy will be flogged to death for a while more. I don't see any quality centre coming up that's likely to dislodge them which is a massive worry. McFadden is good, but is he good enough to kick on and become a world class 12 or 13? I have my doubts. I don't like Earls at centre, I don't think he's physical enough, and is very dodgy in defence when played there. Fitzgerald is similar, lets face it their both wing men. James Downey is 32, and since he only got his first cap this year against Canada he's not the future either. Darren Cave is probaly the only one who might be able to push on and make a name for himself, so I hope he'll get tested in a big match to prove his worth.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

Woodward said he should have been in the matchday squad.

Guscott Q&A before the final test: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23143899[/QUOTE]

Even if he only had 1 leg he should have been in the squad, that's where I'm critical of Gatty. He damaged BOD's legacy.

BOD on the bench would have made no sense

What would you have done if North got injured after 5 minutes?

OldRio

stpaddy99 wrote: »

BOD is an all time great slightly past his best....Jonathon davies is world class....he will go on to win 100 caps and score 30 odd tries....hes already won 6 nations twice and 38 test caps....at this moment in time he is better than bod is now....theres certain players than catch my eye, in the backs in Scotland you have visser (where was he) maitland hogg and blair.....in England you have tuilagi, youngs, Farrell and ashton despite his attitude and awful defence, of those tuilagi is probably my favourite as he breaks defences and finishes tries... in wales you have hapenny, Cuthbert , north, Phillips Roberts and davies.....of those hapenny and davies are my faves...its just their time at the moment, its in cycles, were still in transition with BOD and darcy nearing their end, murphy gone, rog gone, but still sexton murray are class, earles is a danger, fitzgerald, kearney etc and will probably get our hot period in 2 years time

I just think we need to draw a line under this now, its not healthy to get so bitter about it. davies was better than BOD on this tour and he deserved his chance at 13.
he was absolutely superb

So, if you are not on a wind up why bring it back up ?
Go throw your bait elsewhere.

Rightwing

Conas wrote: »

To be honest I don't really see any transition on the horizon once it comes to the midfield. I have a feeling that Drico and D'Arcy will be flogged to death for a while more. I don't see any quality centre coming up that's likely to dislodge them which is a massive worry. McFadden is good, but is he good enough to kick on and become a world class 12 or 13? I have my doubts. I don't like Earls at centre, I don't think he's physical enough, and is very dodgy in defence when played there. Fitzgerald is similar, lets face it their both wing men. James Downey is 32, and since he only got his first cap this year against Canada he's not the future either. Darren Cave is probaly the only one who might be able to push on and make a name for himself, so I hope he'll get tested in a big match to prove his worth.

Could be the making or breaking of Schmidt with what he does with midfield.