Legal threats - party policies

motorrad

I have emailed FF, FG , Labour & Sinn Fein to ask them their policies on Vaping no one has replied .

I told them my vote depends solely on this issue , nothing else matters .

Does anyone know the policies of any party ? Its a straight forward question .

redkid

I wouldn't think any of them actually have vaping policies? But I'm sure they will offer you the promise or no regulations and a bottle of el toro a month in exchange for your vote.

motorrad

Just been thinking about threats to Vaping and as far as I can see we have little to worry about as I Vape about 500 ml a year so even if they banned it I could buy liquid on the black market or just go up to Newry and stock up for a year or two .
They cannot stop us really can they ? As they cannot stop fags from being smuggled so no chance of stopping E-liquid .

colly10

motorrad wrote: »

Just been thinking about threats to Vaping and as far as I can see we have little to worry about as I Vape about 500 ml a year so even if they banned it I could buy liquid on the black market or just go up to Newry and stock up for a year or two .
They cannot stop us really can they ? As they cannot stop fags from being smuggled so no chance of stopping E-liquid .

It will be banned eu wide so going to Newry won't help. :mad:

motorrad

colly10 wrote: »

It will be banned eu wide so going to Newry won't help. :mad:

ffs how Irish

grindle

I would've thought your view was more Irish/defeatist.

"Even if they ban it, we can get it illegally somehow." = "Who cares if the government is doing something crazily immoral/borderline murderous as long as I'm fine?"

This isn't something we should be complacent about, and the Irish do have this "Ah sher it'll be grand..." tendency that basically invites a supreme ass-fùcking.

motorrad

I am not Irish BTW but I am all in favour of trying to achieve our aims , thats why I did something and tried to get the party policies on Vaping , its no use getting the blessing of the odd TD we need to have the parties policy as all of their members are guided by this .
I am only trying to find solutions to a problem so if the worst happens we can still vape .

tommy2bad

TBH I think what your asking is better addressed as their policy on reducing the smoking prevalence and harm reduction as a tool to achieve this.
Contacting all the parties and TD is a good idea especially now Rielly (I'm loath to use the Dr prefix) has commented on eCigs. I'd go for the FG and Labor ones first, doubt FF will have much say at all or SF, the independents will only annoy him if they bring it up.

Oh well, more emails and letters, at least this time I might get to actually meet some of the feckers.

colly10

grindle wrote: »

I would've thought your view was more Irish/defeatist.

"Even if they ban it, we can get it illegally somehow." = "Who cares if the government is doing something crazily immoral/borderline murderous as long as I'm fine?"

This isn't something we should be complacent about, and the Irish do have this "Ah sher it'll be grand..." tendency that basically invites a supreme ass-fùcking.

They're seriously corrupt and have no interest in what is in the interest of the people they represent or what the people want. They completely ignore the public and it can be seen by them putting down a petition with 80k signitures last year as keyboard warriors.
I have wrote to a few td's and got no response, they will do what's in their own interests and unless the likes of Joe Duffy's against the ban they'll have no issues.

The problem is not just our government, it's EU wide, in the end we can argue the positives all we like but the reality is that this comes down to money.

It may be seen as negitive but the ones that make the decisions don't care about people or lives

Going Forward

The problem for vapers is that the "establishment" probably dont actually "get" vaping, plus, if things keep going as they are, ultimately there will be a revenue shortfall from the reduced sale of fags.

I am quite concerned with the proposals (in the UK?) to classify ecigs as some sort of prescribed medicinal product, to be sold only in pharmacies, with no doubt a 200% price increase.

As a commenter elsewhere noted, if this happens, presumably cigarettes, cigars and pipe tobacco should also be subject to the same conditions and only sold in chemist shops!

But I'm also concerned about the complete lack of regulations; whats in the juice, wheres it coming from, (EG, I have juice here called Wicked, says its made in Ireland on the bottle, no ingredients listed, no address phone number, there is a website Healthiersmoker.ie but theres no mention there of any manufacturing facility or quality control!) the placing of ecigs at point of sale, no age restrictions to name a few.

But these things could be addressed quickly and without resulting in vapers getting screwed.

BTW, how about totally wrecking heads and getting Luke Ming on the job;)


PS, if the price is taxed or escalated to anything close to cigarettes, and there is too much bother in buying them, people will just go back to fags and that cant be a good thing.

The MAIN obstacle as far as I imagine is that Governments around the world will not/cannot licence or condone what is effictively as yet an unknown product for fear of litigation in years to come.

motorrad

Essentially what Vapers are worried about is that their supply will be cut off for whatever reason , in business if your supply is cut off then you find an alternative supply... smuggle it in , black market , mix it yourself ....they cant ban the use they can only try to cut off supply , apply some problem solving techniques and you could probably get a years supply and not have to worry for a whole year , 600ml is what I use in a year , I could just take a cheap flight and bring in a litre in a whiskey bottle .
Where there is a will there is a way.

tommy2bad

Going Forward;
But I'm also concerned about the complete lack of regulations; whats in the juice, wheres it coming from, (EG, I have juice here called Wicked, says its made in Ireland on the bottle, no ingredients listed, no address phone number, there is a website Healthiersmoker.ie but theres no mention there of any manufacturing facility or quality control!) the placing of ecigs at point of sale, no age restrictions to name a few.

All the concerns you have are already covered by laws and bylaws except the age restriction. The problem isn't regulation but enforcement. Here in Ireland what happened is the health people say it's not their job to regulate what is not a medicine and the trading people say it's not their job as it is a medicine. In other one department fighting with another.
This leaves a situation where their is effectively no regulation outside of revenue who never have a problem deciding if it's their business.

The MAIN obstacle as far as I imagine is that Governments around the world will not/cannot licence or condone what is effictively as yet an unknown product for fear of litigation in years to come.

Actually that's not the problem at all, by medicalizing ecigs they will do exactly that, and do with all drugs. The problem is fear of lobby groups like the pharma cos who have a huge influence worldwide not just here but especially here.
Coupled with a lot of ignorance of the product and governments natural love of regulation, it's not going to be easy to win this.

Going Forward

tommy2bad wrote: »

All the concerns you have are already covered by laws and bylaws except the age restriction. The problem isn't regulation but enforcement. Here in Ireland what happened is the health people say it's not their job to regulate what is not a medicine and the trading people say it's not their job as it is a medicine. In other one department fighting with another.
This leaves a situation where their is effectively no regulation outside of revenue who never have a problem deciding if it's their business.


Actually that's not the problem at all, by medicalizing ecigs they will do exactly that, and do with all drugs. The problem is fear of lobby groups like the pharma cos who have a huge influence worldwide not just here but especially here.
Coupled with a lot of ignorance of the product and governments natural love of regulation, it's not going to be easy to win this.

Well I defo dont trust the pharma companies.

Having smoked for 20 odd years I dont want to be told that I cant Vape by the government either!!

But what laws relate to ecigs at the moment?
AFAIK theres no law about putting them beside sweets on the shop counter and theres no law against selling diluted juice??

And we know that theres no law about selling them to minors.
These are my only gripes.

BTW Should the main thrust of a campaign be about peoples right to vape or the giving up smoking angle?

grindle

Juice prep is covered by food safety laws.
Selling juice that's supposed to contain a certain concentration of nic is covered by the same laws that are supposed to prevent any retailer from defrauding their customers, trade descriptions act.
The electronics are covered by product safety laws.
Whether or not these are being enforced is a government issue and it's what VAT is supposed to help pay for.

Edit: and you'll find opposing views on this but the campaign should centre on common sense, science and the government's attempt to wade in based on zero negative evidence. Saying "they might be dangerous" has as much weight as saying walking might be dangerous.