Mayo FG TDs vote for Abortion Bill

finisklin

Hi everyone,

Mulherin and O'Mahoney for all their posturing vote for the abortion bill taken from here and here.

What rankles is that FG changed their pre election promise of not legislating for abortion and then depities MM and Johnno go through the motions of thinking it through, keeping their silence, considering their position etc etc etc. and then back down.

I have to admire Lucinda Creighton for standing up and be counted. Not sure if the people of Dublin South East will respect her for that. I think the Mayo public will recognise her and the courage of her convictions.

It is disappointing that some of her Mayo colleagues don't have the same courage and steadfastness in their beliefs and positions. :mad:

irishgeo

finisklin wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Mulherin and O'Mahoney for all their posturing vote for the abortion bill taken from here and here.

What rankles is that FG changed their pre election promise of not legislating for abortion and then depities MM and Johnno go through the motions of thinking it through, keeping their silence, considering their position etc etc etc. and then back down.

I have to admire Lucinda Creighton for standing up and be counted. Not sure if the people of Dublin South East will respect her for that. I think the Mayo public will recognise her and the courage of her convictions.

It is disappointing that some of her Mayo colleagues don't have the same courage and steadfastness in their beliefs and positions. :mad:

Enda had a gun to their head.

Kristopherus

Would be interesting if Lucinda stood against Enda in the next election.:) Would the pro-life vote in Mayo be high enough to get her home?

nuac

Kristopherus wrote: »

Would be interesting if Lucinda stood against Enda in the next election.:) Would the pro-life vote in Mayo be high enough to get her home?

No

nuac

I have some sympathy for Luc C.s' POV that it is FG who have broken their pre-election commitment.

As regards Michelle M. and John O'M they could not lightly be thrown out of FG

Johnno has either to try Europe or go to Galway West to follow the votes swithched from Mayo. He is 100% dependent on FG for wither.

Michelle M had built up a base of voters thru various local authority elections.
She might have got some extra prp-life votes going independent. However (a) the pro-life vote may not be as strong as previously. (b) calleary is also stated to be pro-life.

She was under duress. Sad. this issue should have been a free vote

yop

Have to say Michelle M is very hard to listen to, she was on MWR the other morning and her ability to deliver her point is shocking poor for a public reprsentative. Don't know what she does for local politics/area up there in Ballina but she didn't impress me the other morning or on national radio yesterday.

finisklin

nuac wrote: »

She was under duress. Sad. this issue should have been a free vote

Was not standing by her principles the right thing to do, as Lucinda did?

That's the problem with her - no character, fortitude or conviction.

This confirms what the other documented issues on here say about her - a political weakling.

finisklin

yop wrote: »

Have to say Michelle M is very hard to listen to, she was on MWR the other morning and her ability to deliver her point is shocking poor for a public reprsentative. Don't know what she does for local politics/area up there in Ballina but she didn't impress me the other morning or on national radio yesterday.

You should have seen her on the Brendan O'Connor show regarding her fornication comments - more fun watchin a turnip.

yop

finisklin wrote: »

You should have seen her on the Brendan O'Connor show regarding her fornication comments - more fun watchin a turnip.

How does she manage to get voted in then? I presume the Ballina people can see that she is a bit "publicly dim"?

finisklin

yop wrote: »

How does she manage to get voted in then? I presume the Ballina people can see that she is a bit "publicly dim"?

That's the interesting thing about the voting public.....if you have FG or FF after your name that's enough to get you in. Plus Mna Maigh Eo have taken her to her despite her ridiculous comments.

The next election will be a pantomine as she goes door to door having to explain to voters her fornication comments and lack of courage on the abortion bill. Mna Maigh Eo may test her mettle on those two....:rolleyes:

yop

finisklin wrote: »

That's the interesting thing about the voting public.....if you have FG or FF after your name that's enough to get you in. Plus Mna Maigh Eo have taken her to her despite her ridiculous comments.

The next election will be a pantomine as she goes door to door having to explain to voters her fornication comments and lack of courage on the abortion bill. Mna Maigh Eo may test her mettle on those two....:rolleyes:

I think she is gone as it JOM. His reasoning during the week was spineless and against the so called principles he held.

In fairness to Lucinda Creighton she stood by what she told the people and her beliefs and has to be applauded.
Enda has really gone down in my estimation with this "Vote for it or your gone" bully boy tactics. Where is the right to vote gone to?

Talk of LC forming a new party, I for one will be very interested in their offering, though suspect like them all, they will all fall into the same trough of BS which they all feed off.

scuba8

finisklin wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Mulherin and O'Mahoney for all their posturing vote for the abortion bill taken from here and here.

What rankles is that FG changed their pre election promise of not legislating for abortion and then depities MM and Johnno go through the motions of thinking it through, keeping their silence, considering their position etc etc etc. and then back down.

I have to admire Lucinda Creighton for standing up and be counted. Not sure if the people of Dublin South East will respect her for that. I think the Mayo public will recognise her and the courage of her convictions.

It is disappointing that some of her Mayo colleagues don't have the same courage and steadfastness in their beliefs and positions. :mad:

It should be noted that FG did not get an overall majority. Their election manifesto had to be compromised to go into government in coalition with Labour. If they had got an overall majority went into government and then changed their policies then you could complain.

Oldtree

Couldn't agree more. What surprises me most is that the FG members who now vote against the government didn't bow out when the Programme for Government was agreed! Promises before the election are made on the presumption of an outright majority, without a majority pre-election promises cannot be upheld. Dont know why more wasnt made of this point recently. And they all knew what they were signing in the party pledge, so "in fairness" dosnt come into it really.

HurtLocker

Oldtree wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. What surprises me most is that the FG members who now vote against the government didn't bow out when the Programme for Government was agreed! Promises before the election are made on the presumption of an outright majority, without a majority pre-election promises cannot be upheld. Dont know why more wasnt made of this point recently. And they all knew what they were signing in the party pledge, so "in fairness" dosnt come into it really.

Probably because Labour has taken an outright bashing on economic policy's in this government. FG coming out and saying Labour made us wouldn't float the boat for Labour. The coalition will crumble if they start pointing fingers and laying the blame on each other. They must appear to stand united on everything they bring forward in this Dail.

oscarBravo

yop wrote: »

Enda has really gone down in my estimation with this "Vote for it or your gone" bully boy tactics. Where is the right to vote gone to?

The party whip has been a fact of life in Irish politics since the year dot. I'm not a fan of it, but I'm equally not a fan of politicians who only discover that they have the capacity for independent thought when the party line is at odds with Catholic teachings.

yop

oscarBravo wrote: »

The party whip has been a fact of life in Irish politics since the year dot. I'm not a fan of it, but I'm equally not a fan of politicians who only discover that they have the capacity for independent thought when the party line is at odds with Catholic teachings.

Party whip is a farce, why not let them vote with their principles, but I agree that they can't be surprised when they learn about it!

oscarBravo

Eliminating the party whip wouldn't work as a stand-alone measure. It would have to happen in conjunction with other reforms of the electoral system, such as a partial list system, and more devolution of real power (including revenue-raising power) to local government. Which will never happen.

yop

oscarBravo wrote: »

Eliminating the party whip wouldn't work as a stand-alone measure. It would have to happen in conjunction with other reforms of the electoral system, such as a partial list system, and more devolution of real power (including revenue-raising power) to local government. Which will never happen.

That would only be the sensible thing, so no it wont happen

ethical

Interesting to note how both MM and JO'M are treated so differently by the local station,Midwestradio. MM was really pushed by the interviewer in both cases that I heard yet JO'M was treated very lightly,and yet both TDs are as guilty and as spinless as each other.Plain and simple MM will not be elected again.JO'M played the career card,he hadn't a hope of Europe without FG and after what he has done now he certainly hasn't a hope either.
As an aside I wonder what the Catholic Church thinks of JO'Ms about turn,for as far as I know they fund Midwestradio who always give him an easy ride...and yet stick the dagger into MM!

finisklin

ethical wrote: »

Interesting to note how both MM and JO'M are treated so differently by the local station,Midwestradio. MM was really pushed by the interviewer in both cases that I heard yet JO'M was treated very lightly,and yet both TDs are as guilty and as spinless as each other.Plain and simple MM will not be elected again.JO'M played the career card,he hadn't a hope of Europe without FG and after what he has done now he certainly hasn't a hope either.
As an aside I wonder what the Catholic Church thinks of JO'Ms about turn,for as far as I know they fund Midwestradio who always give him an easy ride...and yet stick the dagger into MM!

Mayo GAA audience are MWR core listeners....not Mna Maigh Eo. Plus MM has that gilded solicitor air about her what with fornication and all those words that nobody else uses, never mind understands. That's enough to turn Liammy, Claffey, Glennon and O'Malley off her for a start.

O'Mahoney would have been generous with his time to MWR during his days as boss of Mayo and Galway.

seligehgit

I'd be shocked if Michelle Mulherin or John o Mahoney were re elected based on their performances thus far.

seligehgit

yop wrote: »

I think she is gone as it JOM. His reasoning during the week was spineless and against the so called principles he held.

In fairness to Lucinda Creighton she stood by what she told the people and her beliefs and has to be applauded.
Enda has really gone down in my estimation with this "Vote for it or your gone" bully boy tactics. Where is the right to vote gone to?

Talk of LC forming a new party, I for one will be very interested in their offering, though suspect like them all, they will all fall into the same trough of BS which they all feed off.

Kenny had no choice but to apply the whip or he'd have faced far more TDs going overboard,he managed to limit the losses quite well.

finisklin

I can't believe the cheek of Mulherin and her remarks about being truth to herself from here.

What about her constituents and the people who voted for her on the basis that FG wouldn't be legislating for abortion?

Far from a honest politician she is - she didn't have the courage of her convictions despite the window dressing of meeting with AG, Reilly and Inda on Tuesday.

Interesting contrast that LC didn't meet the Taoiseach on Tuesday - just Reilly.

MM is going to be bushwacked by the Mayo public during the next election's hustings.

There will be a lot of snipers in the long grass ballot box to remind her of her crass comments.

oscarBravo

finisklin wrote: »

What about... the people who voted for her on the basis that FG wouldn't be legislating for abortion?

Happily, those people are in a dwindling minority.

am i bovvered

oscarBravo wrote: »

The party whip has been a fact of life in Irish politics since the year dot. I'm not a fan of it, but I'm equally not a fan of politicians who only discover that they have the capacity for independent thought when the party line is at odds with Catholic teachings.

A person can be anti-abortion on personal moral grounds, it may have nothing to do with Catholic teachings

HurtLocker

am i bovvered wrote: »

A person can be anti-abortion on personal moral grounds, it may have nothing to do with Catholic teachings

Theres the key word. Personal. Everyone has different morals and opinions. People can be anti abortion but still pro choice. Its all about respecting individuals right to choose for themselves. Pro choice respects and does what it says on the tin. Gives women the right to keep the baby or have a termination. Pro life denies people the independence to choose and thus forces its moral onto others.

The catholic church is the biggest religion here and is the only religion I believe who in Ireland advocate for a prohibition on abortion. They attempted to force this on people with Art 40.3.3in the 80's and they thought they won but it backfired in the X case in '92 and ended up giving women a constitutional right to termination with the threat of suicide. A 2002 referendum to reinstate the blanket prohibition and remove suicide clause from the constitution was defeated. Back then the signs read "Bertie keep your pro life promise".:pac:

mikom

Look at those comments........... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/i-have-been-truthful-to-myself-mulherin-29418364.html

finisklin

Based on MM and LC position and actions - Who do you have more respect for as a politician?

mikom

finisklin wrote: »

Based on MM and LC position and actions - Who do you have more respect for as a politician?

Giant douche or a turd sandwich........... hard decision.

TopTec

Sick of both of them TBH. MM especially, with her sycophantic smarmy grovelling especially when there is a chance of a photo opportunity. Her performances in the media is squirmingly embarrassing and brings nothing but negative press to North Mayo.

When these idiots are elected are they not supposed to represent their constituents? I am not interested in her personal views on abortion, windfarms or fornication - She is MY voice in government and first and foremost should speak for the people of Ballina not her own rambling outdated views.

I am not Pro-life but respect the fact that if the majority of Mayo people don't want this legislation then she should have the courage to step away from FG and vote against it.

TT

Coillte_Bhoy

finisklin wrote: »

What about her constituents and the people who voted for her on the basis that FG wouldn't be legislating for abortion?

Far from a honest politician she is - she didn't have the courage of her convictions despite the window dressing of meeting with AG, Reilly and Inda on Tuesday.

Interesting contrast that LC didn't meet the Taoiseach on Tuesday - just Reilly.

MM is going to be bushwacked by the Mayo public during the next election's hustings.

There will be a lot of snipers in the long grass ballot box to remind her of her crass comments.

and what about them?? i would say the amount of people who did so would be absolutely minimal and anyway arent FF anti abortion too so its hardly a vote winner for FG. Also they are in coallition so you cant expect all pre election promises to be kept.

finisklin wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Mulherin and O'Mahoney for all their posturing vote for the abortion bill taken from here and here.

What rankles is that FG changed their pre election promise of not legislating for abortion and then depities MM and Johnno go through the motions of thinking it through, keeping their silence, considering their position etc etc etc. and then back down.

I have to admire Lucinda Creighton for standing up and be counted. Not sure if the people of Dublin South East will respect her for that. I think the Mayo public will recognise her and the courage of her convictions.

It is disappointing that some of her Mayo colleagues don't have the same courage and steadfastness in their beliefs and positions. :mad:

Kenny and Ring obviously did. Why is it only pro lifers who have the courage of their convictions???

Coillte_Bhoy

yop wrote: »

Talk of LC forming a new party, I for one will be very interested in their offering, though suspect like them all, they will all fall into the same trough of BS which they all feed off.

First ive heard of this. Anyway no need or place for another conservative party

finisklin

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

and what about them?? i would say the amount of people who did so would be absolutely minimal and anyway arent FF anti abortion too so its hardly a vote winner for FG. Also they are in coallition so you cant expect all pre election promises to be kept.



Kenny and Ring obviously did. Why is it only pro lifers who have the courage of their convictions???

LC didn't and stood by her convictions.....moral fibre, character and all that....interesting how LC interpreted the programme for government differently. Mna Maigh Eo will respect LC for this.....me I am sharpening the knives for the knock on the door come 2015.

Coillte_Bhoy

finisklin wrote: »

LC didn't and stood by her convictions.....moral fibre, character and all that....interesting how LC interpreted the programme for government differently. Mna Maigh Eo will respect LC for this.....me I am sharpening the knives for the knock on the door come 2015.

Im not sure what this is supposed to mean but you have quoted me yet didnt address my post

Anyway again i ask how come its only pro lifers that are credited with moral fibre, character etc????

finisklin

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im not sure what this is supposed to mean but you have quoted me yet didnt address my post

Anyway again i ask how come its only pro lifers that are credited with moral fibre, character etc????

LC stood up and was counted on this issue within the political system and FG. This was a issue personal to her and one in which she wasn't prepared to compromise. Unfortunately other TDs put the party ahead of their own opinion/posturing.

The unfortunate problem with election promises is that people hold onto them like stones, ready to fire them back at the politicians when they get into government and change the terms of reference. Labour's mantra of labour's way or Franfurts way is one that springs to mind.

FG did a u turn on there abortion stance and LC has indicated this.

oscarBravo

finisklin wrote: »

Mna Maigh Eo will respect LC for this...

Probably a minority of them, and a shrinking minority at that.

Coillte_Bhoy

finisklin wrote: »

LC stood up and was counted on this issue within the political system and FG. This was a issue personal to her and one in which she wasn't prepared to compromise. Unfortunately other TDs put the party ahead of their own opinion/posturing.

The unfortunate problem with election promises is that people hold onto them like stones, ready to fire them back at the politicians when they get into government and change the terms of reference. Labour's mantra of labour's way or Franfurts way is one that springs to mind.

FG did a u turn on there abortion stance and LC has indicated this.

It was you that referenced the pre election promise

Anyone that takes pre election promises seriously are pretty naive considering its almost inevitable we will have coalition govts for the foreseeable future.

As for mna Maigheo, i doubt this issue will figure too high when it comes to the next election though for me Mulherin and O'Mahony wont be getting a vote as they have indicated their anti pro choice beliefs

finisklin

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

It was you that referenced the pre election promise

Lucinda raised it before me.....

Cleahaigh

What's the problem here, they legislated (in a very restrictive fashion) in line with the Supreme Court decision, the ECJ rulings and at least two referenda? Fair play to them, I say.

oscarBravo

Cleahaigh wrote: »

What's the problem here, they legislated (in a very restrictive fashion) in line with the Supreme Court decision, the ECJ rulings and at least two referenda? Fair play to them, I say.

There will always be some for whom it's important that Ireland keep up the pretence of not having abortion available. It allows them to ignore the fact that a woman who really wants an abortion will find a way to procure one, whether it means having to travel to a different country, or to jeopardise her health by buying illegal and unregulated abortifacient drugs online.

For these people, the fact that women are prepared to risk their lives and health in order to terminate a pregnancy is secondary to their agenda; the fact that the constitution allows for abortion in the case of a risk to the life of the mother is secondary, as is the fact that the people voted twice not to close that constitutional loophole.

The only thing that matters is that their personal morality - informed, or otherwise, by Catholic dogma - means that they believe they have a right to dictate to women that they should have no right to make choices relating to their personal health, if there happens to be a fertilised egg involved.

That's what the problem is here.

Coillte_Bhoy

finisklin wrote: »

Lucinda raised it before me.....

ha ha, you brought it into this thread saying it rankled with people when there is no evidence that it does. It may rankle with you but then maybe you should take your own advice re pre election promises

Coillte_Bhoy

Cleahaigh wrote: »

What's the problem here, they legislated (in a very restrictive fashion) in line with the Supreme Court decision, the ECJ rulings and at least two referenda? Fair play to them, I say.

No problem at all among most people but as usual the catholic right cant accept the will of the people

finisklin

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

ha ha, you brought it into this thread saying it rankled with people when there is no evidence that it does. It may rankle with you but then maybe you should take your own advice re pre election promises

I made the contrast with Mayo FG TDs and how they approached this decision. That's what rankles with me - the inconsistency.

BTW I didn't make any pre election promises.....

Coillte_Bhoy

finisklin wrote: »

I made the contrast with Mayo FG TDs and how they approached this decision. That's what rankles with me - the inconsistency.

And what about all the other pre election promises that have been borken? Cuts to services that have been voted through? Where were their consciences then?

finisklin wrote: »

BTW I didn't make any pre election promises.....

:rolleyes: Ok be childish if you want

yop

Mod Note: Pull the horns back in lads, keep it civil please