Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The policing you dont see- MI5 in Northern Ireland.

Options
  • 09-07-2013 8:19pm
    #1
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭


    I can imagine some of the replies I will get for posting as it exposes both the Sinn Fein supporters and their pseudo-Republicanism and those who cling to the illusion that the six counties of north east Ulster have become "normal". Though I am sure there are also people who will take this information.

    The report was made by politically neutral human rights group (well leftish Alliance and SDLP types in reality).


    http://www.caj.org.uk/files/2012/12/05/The_Policing_you_dont_see,_November_2012.pdf

    Remember that this is the surface. God knows what is beneath the surface.


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    From that report it seems mi5 are working without any authority or anyone to report to. They are also operating in prisons putting people into isolation for weeks and interogating them without their solicitors present.

    They are accountable to nobody.


  • Options
    #3
    Xantia
    Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭Xantia


    They were operating wholesale all over Ireland during the 'troubles'


  • Options
    #4
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Do you think there is more transparency and accountability in policing south of the border OP?


  • Options
    #5
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    I suppose while the dissident threat to life is still present these invisible operations are a nessisary evil!


  • Options
    #6
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    murphaph wrote: »
    Do you think there is more transparency and accountability in policing south of the border OP?

    Good question- honestly Im not sure.

    However while the elite that rule the Free State might easily be described as evil they are in no way as evil as the elite that rules the occupied six counties though personally I would like to see both go and the Irish Republic re-established.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Good question- honestly Im not sure.

    However while the elite that rule the Free State might easily be described as evil they are in no way as evil as the elite that rules the occupied six counties though personally I would like to see both go and the Irish Republic re-established.
    If you were charged with protecting your citizens from the dissident threat how would you go about it? Full view policing? Perhaps a website where people could see in detail exactly what you are investigating and names and photos of all operatives and informants etc?


  • Options
    #8
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Good question- honestly Im not sure.

    However while the elite that rule the Free State might easily be described as evil they are in no way as evil as the elite that rules the occupied six counties though personally I would like to see both go and the Irish Republic re-established.

    Do you think there is more transparency and accountability in policing by the militant groups looking to re-establish this Irish Republic OP?


  • Options
    #9
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Such organisations exist in every civilized country in the world, monitoring terrorist units. They don't need to be open and transparent. You do realize that such units are active in the RoI too?
    .jacksparrow. wrote:
    From that report it seems mi5 are working without any authority or anyone to report to. They are also operating in prisons putting people into isolation for weeks and interogating them without their solicitors present.

    They are accountable to nobody.

    .jacksparrow., there is plenty of information out there, try google, on what MI5 is about and who MI5 report to. Their job is to "protect the United Kingdom against threats to national security." So, they are well within their remit to work in N.I.


  • Options
    #10
    mcc1
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭mcc1


    Secret service acting in secret shocker?? Well I never.


  • Options
    #11
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    COYW wrote: »
    Such organisations exist in every civilized country in the world, monitoring terrorist units. They don't need to be open and transparent. You do realize that such units are active in the RoI too?



    .jacksparrow., there is plenty of information out there, try google, on what MI5 is about and who MI5 report to. Their job is to "protect the United Kingdom against threats to national security." So, they are well within their remit to work in N.I.

    I absolutely understand that but the same could be said about the CIA and what snowden said.

    It doesn't give them the right to operate above the law with regards peoples rights and liberties.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,391 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    I absolutely understand that but the same could be said about the CIA and what snowden said.

    It doesn't give them the right to operate above the law with regards peoples rights and liberties.

    National Security is a very serious thing. If it is for the good of the country then yes they should be allowed to operate above the law. Though I'm am not entirely supportive of that, I can understand why countries like the UK and US do. They have many enemies, which makes them targets for terrorist attacks etc. Therefore national security is a high priority to them.


  • Options
    #13
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Sand wrote: »
    Do you think there is more transparency and accountability in policing by the militant groups looking to re-establish this Irish Republic OP?

    If you mean groups using violence than yes I definitely do. Infact I wish they would disband totally.


  • Options
    #14
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    If you were charged with protecting your citizens from the dissident threat how would you go about it? Full view policing? Perhaps a website where people could see in detail exactly what you are investigating and names and photos of all operatives and informants etc?

    The only way to end with the threat of political violence from Irish Republicans or separatists is for British government to announce a time table for its complete withdrawal from Ireland. Will they please leave?


  • Options
    #15
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The only way to end with the threat of political violence from Irish Republicans or separatists is for British government to announce a time table for its complete withdrawal from Ireland. Will they please leave?

    Even against the will of the people? If the majority of people want to remain part of the UK should the terrorists win? Anyway plenty of dissident attacks foiled and lots or arms found so obviously these policing tactics are working.


  • Options
    #16
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The only way to end with the threat of political violence from Irish Republicans or separatists is for British government to announce a time table for its complete withdrawal from Ireland. Will they please leave?

    The UK government saying that they are leaving NI will not sort out the problems that they have up there, in fact it could go the other way as the and we could have a terrorism campaign in the Republic.


  • Options
    #17
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,257 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The only way to end with the threat of political violence from Irish Republicans or separatists is for British government to announce a time table for its complete withdrawal from Ireland. Will they please leave?

    Finally. A new solution to an old problem has been proposed! You should have piped up years ago. Could have saved a lot of bother.


  • Options
    #18
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    gallag wrote: »
    Even against the will of the people? If the majority of people want to remain part of the UK should the terrorists win? Anyway plenty of dissident attacks foiled and lots or arms found so obviously these policing tactics are working.

    But how do we know it would be against the will of the people? There is no timetable for a referendum, if they even gave a rough date the dissidents might stop there campaign.


  • Options
    #19
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    Even against the will of the people? If the majority of people want to remain part of the UK should the terrorists win? Anyway plenty of dissident attacks foiled and lots or arms found so obviously these policing tactics are working.

    The majority of people of this country even still today after an intensive campaign by the elite still want to see their country unified. The little gerrymandered experiment has been an absolute failure and the fact that people in the occupied north east still cling to it means that they are either intellectually incapable of analysis, bigots blinded by pride or have fallen for the lie that people in the south dont care about the north.


  • Options
    #20
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The majority of people of this country even still today after an intensive campaign by the elite still want to see their country unified. The little gerrymandered experiment has been an absolute failure and the fact that people in the occupied north east still cling to it means that they are either intellectually incapable of analysis, bigots blinded by pride or have fallen for the lie that people in the south dont care about the north.

    Link? Every poll or survey (except one carefully crafted in two staunch republican town's that were run by people who wanted a yes answer and required preregistration) says you are wrong, the desire for a UI is at an all time low and your republican mindset is blinding you, you are happy to criticise the police in there successful campaign against the factions that want to bomb and kill their way to an undemocratic decision yet have no negative words for the terrorists but "give them what they want"!


  • Options
    #21
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    Link? Every poll or survey (except one carefully crafted in two staunch republican town's that were run by people who wanted a yes answer and required preregistration) says you are wrong, the desire for a UI is at an all time low and your republican mindset is blinding you, you are happy to criticise the police in there successful campaign against the factions that want to bomb and kill their way to an undemocratic decision yet have no negative words for the terrorists but "give them what they want"!

    Polls taken in the the occupied counties alone do not count.

    The armed militants violent actions are immoral but they are done for a morally righteous cause. They would be much better off promoting the Irish language than shooting guns or letting off bombs.

    Again "Northern Ireland" was created through violence against the wishes of the majority of the country and has a history of violence, division, hatred and over all failure. So as a Unionist you are really not in a position to get on your high horse about either democracy or violence.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Polls taken in the the occupied counties alone do not count.

    Wrong, polls taken in N.Ireland is ALL!! that counts, as per the democratic wishes of the people as per the GFA, if the people from N.I wish to have a U.I then the good people of the republic can then also vote.


  • Options
    #23
    nelly17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭nelly17


    UI would be suicide for the taintative relative peace that exists in NI today, it would only satisfy the few but make the situation so much worse that those few would could end up involved in a Cival War


  • Options
    #24
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    I can imagine some of the replies I will get for posting as it exposes both the Sinn Fein supporters and their pseudo-Republicanism and those who cling to the illusion that the six counties of north east Ulster have become "normal". Though I am sure there are also people who will take this information.

    The report was made by politically neutral human rights group (well leftish Alliance and SDLP types in reality).


    http://www.caj.org.uk/files/2012/12/05/The_Policing_you_dont_see,_November_2012.pdf

    Remember that this is the surface. God knows what is beneath the surface.

    Drones over Northern Ireland 12 months ahead of G8 summit
    very Orwellian


  • Options
    #25
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/5000-dissident-republicans-due-to-march-through-belfast-29412763.html


    Thought this was quite fitting to this thread.


  • Options
    #26
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    gallag wrote: »
    Wrong, polls taken in N.Ireland is ALL!! that counts, as per the democratic wishes of the people as per the GFA, if the people from N.I wish to have a U.I then the good people of the republic can then also vote.

    Well when will they be given the choice to decide their own future?


  • Options
    #27
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    Wrong, polls taken in N.Ireland is ALL!! that counts, as per the democratic wishes of the people as per the GFA, if the people from N.I wish to have a U.I then the good people of the republic can then also vote.

    The GFA is just an interesting historical document now- it was thrown out and replaced by the St Andrews Agreement which no one voted for. The GFA was also the product of bowing to the indiscriminate violence of the Unionist death squads who were in league with certain sections of the British state.


  • Options
    #28
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The GFA is just an interesting historical document now- it was thrown out and replaced by the St Andrews Agreement which no one voted for. The GFA was also the product of bowing to the indiscriminate violence of the Unionist death squads who were in league with certain sections of the British state.

    Nothing to do with republican violence that accounted for most of the death and destruction? How blind you are!


  • Options
    #29
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    The IRA never liked MI5, and that goes for their camp followers.

    Unless they were getting bunged £££ for imfo of course.


  • Options
    #30
    Foxhound38
    Registered Users Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Good question- honestly Im not sure.

    However while the elite that rule the Free State might easily be described as evil they are in no way as evil as the elite that rules the occupied six counties though personally I would like to see both go and the Irish Republic re-established.

    What is this "Free State" and "Occupied Six Counties" when they're at home? Couldn't find them on any map?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Good question- honestly Im not sure.

    However while the elite that rule the Free State might easily be described as evil they are in no way as evil as the elite that rules the occupied six counties though personally I would like to see both go and the Irish Republic re-established.

    FYI
    It is The Republic in common parlance, Ireland or Eire officially, not the free state.
    It is Northern Ireland, a constituent part of The United kingdom of Great Britain and Nortern Ireland, not the occupied six counties.
    Impossible to respect the veiwpoint of anyone who insists on disrespecting my country by persistantly calling it by a deregatory name.


Advertisement