People assume I'm thick

LegacyUser

Minor issue, but wanted some advice anyway. I'm a 28-year-old woman and quite well-educated (have a good first degree and got a Distinction in my Master's). I'd consider myself reasonably well-read and read at least one newspaper every day and keep up with political/current affairs by reading blogs. I'm fluent in two languages besides English and am learning two more in my spare time. I wouldn't consider myself a bimbo by any means, yet that's exactly how most people (specifically most men) seem to see me. People seem to just assume I wouldn't know anything about anything. I don't show off or try to 'look clever', keep everyday conversations fairly bright and breezy but I don't see why people would then assume I was thick. One guy started showing off to me today that he was learning German and started explaining how there are compound words in German. Without asking me if I knew any, just assuming that I couldn't possibly (I did it as part of my degree and am fluent in it). It's starting to get on my nerves and I feel a very strong element of sexism - women don't really treat me this way. What can I do?

LegacyUser

that's a strange one. how do you know that's what he was assuming though? i mean does he KNOW you studied german as part of your degree? if he did, maybe it's got nothing to do with how people perceive you, maybe he's just a d-ck. women can be d-cks just as much as women. if he didn't know you knew german, maybe cut him some slack. myabe he just wanted to share something new he's learning.

who cares what other people think anyway? when i come across that sort of situation, and only if i'm feeling the other person is being really condescending and horrible, i just give them a blank stare and say ''yeah. i know'. other than that, who cares? do what you do and forget about other people. interesting people will eventually gravitate towards each other in life.

dd972

Funny you should mention languages as I've a major interest in them too, I'm a 40 year old male who has the same problem as in being constantly underestimated and disdained by people, despite, (without wishing to blow my own trumpet too much ), being very well read and widely traveled. I've never met you so can't proffer anything beside sympathy for your post, however in my case I'm convinced that I have what I'd call 'image deficit', my voice in particular, I think being a major contributor to this, I have a very low, quiet voice and one thing I've noted in people whom I'd label as 'socially effective' is that they all seem to have a snappy, vocal delivery which imparts any sort of wit or banter more effectively. The way I look too has also caused me problems. This 'image deficit' has held me back in the workplace no end.

It's frustrating when the person that you actually are as in behind your eyes and between your ears is razor sharp, fast witted and highly intelligent yet the person that others perceive you to be in terms of the feedback you receive is perceived as anything but.

Big Bag of Chips

Maybe he was just excited about learning German, and wanted to share what he had just learned?! Would that not have been a perfect opportunity for you to get into a great conversation with him about it?

If people don't know you, how can they assume anything about you? And if they assume you don't know something, surely in the course of conversation you should be able to put that right?

I'd be very surprised if "people assume you're thick".. You may have met a few condescending idiots in your time, but the huge majority of people are too busy just going about their own business, that other people barely register on their radar to be honest!!

You're upsetting yourself thinking this of others, and they've probably forgotten they've even spoken to you. Do you know what I mean?

gerryd2

Honestly I think this man see's your an intelligent woman and was trying to impress you with his language skills not knowing you knew German. Or he knew you knew German and was trying to reach common grounds with you and start a conversation. Just my opinion

MagicMarker

notthick wrote: »

Minor issue, but wanted some advice anyway. I'm a 28-year-old woman and quite well-educated (have a good first degree and got a Distinction in my Master's). I'd consider myself reasonably well-read and read at least one newspaper every day and keep up with political/current affairs by reading blogs. I'm fluent in two languages besides English and am learning two more in my spare time. I wouldn't consider myself a bimbo by any means, yet that's exactly how most people (specifically most men) seem to see me. People seem to just assume I wouldn't know anything about anything. I don't show off or try to 'look clever', keep everyday conversations fairly bright and breezy but I don't see why people would then assume I was thick. One guy started showing off to me today that he was learning German and started explaining how there are compound words in German. Without asking me if I knew any, just assuming that I couldn't possibly (I did it as part of my degree and am fluent in it). It's starting to get on my nerves and I feel a very strong element of sexism - women don't really treat me this way. What can I do?

Well, just going by the example you've provided, why would this man assume you know this, seeing as most Irish people can't speak German? Also, why do you think him making a perfectly acceptable assumption automatically makes him think you're thick? All it shows is that he didn't think you could speak German. I didn't know that about German, am I thick?

Maybe he was just excited about learning a new language and just wanted to talk about it? I do that all the time if I've picked up a new hobby or something.

Quite honestly, I think you've totally misinterpreted that particular conversation.

strobe

notthick wrote: »

Minor issue, but wanted some advice anyway. I'm a 28-year-old woman and quite well-educated (have a good first degree and got a Distinction in my Master's). I'd consider myself reasonably well-read and read at least one newspaper every day and keep up with political/current affairs by reading blogs. I'm fluent in two languages besides English and am learning two more in my spare time. I wouldn't consider myself a bimbo by any means, yet that's exactly how most people (specifically most men) seem to see me. People seem to just assume I wouldn't know anything about anything. I don't show off or try to 'look clever', keep everyday conversations fairly bright and breezy but I don't see why people would then assume I was thick. One guy started showing off to me today that he was learning German and started explaining how there are compound words in German. Without asking me if I knew any, just assuming that I couldn't possibly (I did it as part of my degree and am fluent in it). It's starting to get on my nerves and I feel a very strong element of sexism - women don't really treat me this way. What can I do?

Just on the bolded bit. Wouldn't it be perfectly natural for him to presume you didn't know any compounded German words? Not very many Irish people speak German. Talking to a random person it would make much more sense to presume they didn't than they did.

Are you sure you maybe aren't seeing something that isn't there to some degree? Not just in relation to the German thing with the guy but in general?

I did have one friend in particular who always had this thing in her head for some reason that people presumed she wasn't very intelligent and treated her as such. We moved in the same circles and had several friends in common.

I remember once when we were in a group and me and her were talking about where we'd like to go some day etc and I said "Kathmandu... it's the capital of Nepal" and her response was "I know where it is, I'm not stupid" or something similar and was in a huff with me for the rest of the night. (lots of people might not know where Kathmandu was, and if they didn't I wouldn't for a second think not knowing so meant they were stupid... I would have finished the sentence the same regardless of who I was speaking to {apart from maybe someone Nepalese }) Overheard her complaining to a mutual friend later in the night about the Kathmandu 'incident' and how I'd spoken to her like she was stupid.
There were a few things like that in the time I knew her involving other people too.

I certainly never thought she was thick... nobody did (well nobody ever said they thought she was or acted like she was in my or mine and her company, at least).

Something to consider maybe.
Or maybe not, just thought I'd put it out there in case it may help.

Best of luck.

Bluegrass1

notthick wrote: »

One guy started showing off to me today that he was learning German and started explaining how there are compound words in German. Without asking me if I knew any, just assuming that I couldn't possibly (I did it as part of my degree and am fluent in it). It's starting to get on my nerves and I feel a very strong element of sexism - women don't really treat me this way. What can I do?

You are equating knowledge with intelligence. That is a mistake. What if you knew 9 languages but not German. Would you be thick if someone showed you some German words?
The problem is that you are taking a neutral statement as an insult. That is not a good thing to do.

Queen-Mise

notthick wrote: »

started explaining how there are compound words in German. Without asking me if I knew any, just assuming that I couldn't possibly (I did it as part of my degree and am fluent in it). It's starting to get on my nerves and I feel a very strong element of sexism - women don't really treat me this way. What can I do?

Are compound words in German - the ones that have about 50 letters and are 4/5 words strung together in a row.

If it is - then I can understand why he was babbling on about it. It was damn odd when I came across it. And I probably told people & I probably didn't check if they spoke German beforehand.

It seems you missed an opportunity to chat about a mutual interest rather than someone presuming you are 'thick'.

bluemagpie

You're giving people too much credit, most people think very little about others as they are too busy in their own world. I would say like the other posters that as he is learning he is just excited to tell people, possibly trying to impress you. If you had said that you were fluent you might have had a nice conversation rather than looking for an insult in what he said.

Next time you think someone is implying you are thick you could step back and try engaging them in conversation, or if they really are being annoying tell them you know until they get the message as another poster suggested. People aren't mind readers they don't just assume that you know what they are talking about.

Citycap

notthick wrote: »

Minor issue, but wanted some advice anyway. I'm a 28-year-old woman and quite well-educated (have a good first degree and got a Distinction in my Master's). I'd consider myself reasonably well-read and read at least one newspaper every day and keep up with political/current affairs by reading blogs. I'm fluent in two languages besides English and am learning two more in my spare time. I wouldn't consider myself a bimbo by any means, yet that's exactly how most people (specifically most men) seem to see me. People seem to just assume I wouldn't know anything about anything. I don't show off or try to 'look clever', keep everyday conversations fairly bright and breezy but I don't see why people would then assume I was thick. One guy started showing off to me today that he was learning German and started explaining how there are compound words in German. Without asking me if I knew any, just assuming that I couldn't possibly (I did it as part of my degree and am fluent in it). It's starting to get on my nerves and I feel a very strong element of sexism - women don't really treat me this way. What can I do?

I don't think you are thick. I think you are paranoid.

Merkin

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Maybe he was just excited about learning German, and wanted to share what he had just learned?! Would that not have been a perfect opportunity for you to get into a great conversation with him about it?

This just about sums it up.

Why on earth would you sit there quietly seething with paranoia and fury when all you had to do was engage the chap? Turning around to him and saying that you are fluent in German and that you too found compound words interesting/difficult to master at the start would have been a great conversation but because his mind-reading skills aren't honed you foolishly start waving the sexism flag based on the ill-founded assumption that you're thick?

It makes absolutely no sense and isn't really an issue imho.

notthick

notthick wrote: »

People seem to just assume I wouldn't know anything about anything.

I'd be similar OP, but you've got to remember that people aren't trying to offend, and often they're trying to come across as intelligent themselves rather than assuming anything about you.

Over the years I've become over-sensitive to stuff like that, particularly around men, but all I can do is remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs, and if I cared that much about people knowing what I know I always have the option to go around being an ass about it. At the end of the day I'd much prefer to feel underestimated than be one of those people that constantly seems to have something to prove.

Potatoeman

There is a difference between being book smart and street smart. I went to college with someone that did fantastic in exams but was rubbish at anything practical.
I consider street people smart to be quick witted, aware of their sorroundings and good at reacting.
I dont know you or what you are like but people interput you by your behaviour.

Diziet

notthick wrote: »

I don't show off or try to 'look clever', keep everyday conversations fairly bright and breezy but I don't see why people would then assume I was thick.

That past of the post jumped out at me. Are you trying to shield your knowledge so you are not considered a 'show off'? If so, why?

Men have no problem with showing (off?) their knowledge and intelligence. Conversations should be just that, conversations. If it comes to languages and you want to add some substance to the discussion, do. If the other person has no idea that you know the topic, it's not their fault, they do not have a crystal ball. And if anyone tries to patronise you despite knowing that you are intelligent and knowledgeable, then have a couple of well aimed phrases ready. They will not do it a second time then.

bluemagpie

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt

Lunni

strobe wrote: »

Just on the bolded bit. Wouldn't it be perfectly natural for him to presume you didn't know any compounded German words? Not very many Irish people speak German. Talking to a random person it would make much more sense to presume they didn't than they did.

Are you sure you maybe aren't seeing something that isn't there to some degree? Not just in relation to the German thing with the guy but in general?

I did have one friend in particular who always had this thing in her head for some reason that people presumed she wasn't very intelligent and treated her as such. We moved in the same circles and had several friends in common.

I remember once when we were in a group and me and her were talking about where we'd like to go some day etc and I said "Kathmandu... it's the capital of Nepal" and her response was "I know where it is, I'm not stupid" or something similar and was in a huff with me for the rest of the night. (lots of people might not know where Kathmandu was, and if they didn't I wouldn't for a second think not knowing so meant they were stupid... I would have finished the sentence the same regardless of who I was speaking to {apart from maybe someone Nepalese }) Overheard her complaining to a mutual friend later in the night about the Kathmandu 'incident' and how I'd spoken to her like she was stupid.
There were a few things like that in the time I knew her involving other people too.

I certainly never thought she was thick... nobody did (well nobody ever said they thought she was or acted like she was in my or mine and her company, at least).

Something to consider maybe.
Or maybe not, just thought I'd put it out there in case it may help.

Best of luck.

I think that is rude and insulting personally. When you explain something to someone in that way, you are making the assumption that they wouldn't know anything about it and to me, that's rude. I think saying "Kathmandu, the capital of Nepal" is really patronising. If YOU know where it is, why wouldn't your friend?

dellas1979

I think you are wayyyy over thinking this...

You sound a little insecure...why do you care if indeed he thought you were thick? Dont you think that you are smart?

beks101

If someone assumes I'm dumb I usually humour myself by going along with it, I'll let them explain something rudimentary to me and then add my own tid-bit of knowledge to the conversation so make them aware I'm no idiot.

It happens now and again, maybe because I've asked a basic question, maybe because I'm female in an environment full of alpha-males twice my age, maybe because I messed up on something - in any case, it's always about that other person's issues and preconceptions, if they want to think I'm dumb, let them off! It kind of shows how much their ignorance is limiting them.

You sound quite defensive OP, rattling off your list off academic merits like that. If someone started explaining the German language to me in the same way, I'd probably join in and tell him how interesting I found the language rules when I studied it at school, isn't the gender & cases thing mad etc etc...would probably have had an interesting conversation and learned a thing or two. Your colleague would probably have loved to know he was talking to someone fluent in the language.

Open your mind to the possibility that people are attempting conversation with you in good will, they just want to engage you, and if you join in you might actually increase your knowledge too rather than having to prove it all the time.

strobe

Lunni wrote: »

I think that is rude and insulting personally. When you explain something to someone in that way, you are making the assumption that they wouldn't know anything about it and to me, that's rude. I think saying "Kathmandu, the capital of Nepal" is really patronising. If YOU know where it is, why wouldn't your friend?

Lots of people might not know where Kathmandu was because... well... why on earth would they?

I knew where it was because I'd watched a documentary about the Ghurkas before.

But this is hardly advice for the OP, now is it Lunni?

Lunni

strobe wrote: »

Lots of people might not know where Kathmandu was because... well... why on earth would they?

I knew where it was because I'd watched a documentary about the Ghurkas before.

But this is hardly advice for the OP, now is it Lunni?

Why wouldn't they? Why would you assume you knew something other people didn't? I don't think the OP is all that paranoid, to be honest. I think a lot of people talk down to others without realising they're doing it. You did it and then complained the girl was oversensitive. I'd have been offended (probably not as much as she was) as well. I was always taught to assume other people knew as much as I did, if not more, because to do otherwise is rude. When you explain something to someone like that, you are insinuating that you think they won't know (and hence insinuating that they don't know as much as you do). Don't you see how that's offensive?

Reesy

Hi OP,

OK, another perspective: I've no idea how you dress. Like it or not, some styles of dressing are associated (by the viewer) with more intelligence than others. I see a person (M/F) in a business suit I'll probably credit them with more brains initially than I would a person in filthy jeans & a torn t-shirt. Whether the person's brainy or not is irrelevant, it's what we humans do.

If you dye your hair blonde and wear clothes that make you look, um, how do I way this without insulting some posters, less sophisticated than some other ladies, then people (male & female) may perceive that you are (consciously or otherwise) identifying with a particular tribe that cares little for brains, and treat you accordingly. Does this make sense to you?

strobe

Lunni wrote: »

Don't you see how that's offensive?

No. To be blunt. And I'd think anyone that did think it was was ludicrously oversensitive. And more than a touch insecure.

Bluegrass1

Lunni wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? Why would you assume you knew something other people didn't? I don't think the OP is all that paranoid, to be honest. I think a lot of people talk down to others without realising they're doing it. You did it and then complained the girl was oversensitive. I'd have been offended (probably not as much as she was) as well. I was always taught to assume other people knew as much as I did, if not more, because to do otherwise is rude. When you explain something to someone like that, you are insinuating that you think they won't know (and hence insinuating that they don't know as much as you do). Don't you see how that's offensive?

Why is the question of whether someone knows where some place is relevant to whether the person is stupid or not? Many intelligent people do not know things one would assume are common knowledge. There are prominent lawyers who have never learned to drive. Are they stupid? The late taoiseach Charlie Haughey couldn't make tea according to his wife. Whatever else people said about him no one ever said he was stupid.

dellas1979

Lunni wrote: »

Don't you see how that's offensive?

A person cannot control what the other person hears when they talk.

Do I know where kathmandu is yes. Would I be offended by someone saying to me "BTW thats in Nepal" No. Thats how I hear it. I dont think I am superiour in my knowledge to think another human being wouldnt be allowed to state something to me or insecure to have someone state or show something to me, that I might already know. But we all have different filters how we hear things, based on things that have happened us, our own fears, and projections of ourselves.

ivytwine

In fairness, it's not like they said "London... which is the capital of England you know". Not everyone knows everything, and a country like Nepal is not necessarily on everyone's radar in Ireland. Anyway...

I am a bit of a magpie when it comes to facts and stuff, love QI and National Geographic so I tend to pick up random facts. If I say something and someone is surprised I know it (usually due to my youth, I think, rather than my gender) I don't take it so personally.

And if people think you're a ditz, so what? Move on, prove them wrong. Life is way too short to care what people may or may not think of you.

ALSO EDIT: Knowledge is not a competition, and one form is not more valid than another. I couldn't name every US Masters winner since the year X, but someone who could might not know anything about literature. Doesn't mean I'm stupider than that person or vice versa. We all have different strengths and there's nothing wrong with knowledge gaps, as long as your mind is open to new things.

Forever Hopeful

People aren't walking encylopedias and people aren't telepathic. It just happened that you were in conversation with someone on a topic that you were familiar with. Do you feel the same way when people explain things on topics that you are not familiar with?
I really don't understand this issue to be honest but I think its more of a symptom of some other issue which other posters have mentioned - insecurity.
You can take two people and expose them to the same situation and they would respond very differently. Its how you perceive yourself, not others.

judgefudge

Few things. I've been to Kathmandu in Nepal and whenever I tell someone I don't know about it I would generally say its in Nepal. In absolutely no way am I trying to be patronising, I just didnt know where it was before I happened to travel there! I'm not assuming that that person in particular doesn't know where it is, I'm just assuming a lot of people don't, which is a fair assumption I think.

Anyway, OP you say you try to keep things light and breezy when you chat to people, why? Is this something you're purposely doing to appear like you're not intelligent? Might not be the case here but I know a lot of girls who dumb themselves down, particularly around men, so that they appear more "fun".

I'm a fairly intelligent person (to phd level) and female and I have to say I've never really come across what you're describing. So I hesitate to say it but it looks like it's one of two things; you're trying to hide your intelligence by acting breezy and light and it's backfiring. Or you're being very over sensitive and paranoid. I'd hazard a guess that it's the second one, just based on the German example.

somefeen

This is how it should have gone

Possibly hot guy: I'm learning German its very difficult, they have these compound words which are very hard to understand *explains compound words I dont have a clue what they are *

You: Oh yeah I studied German to and found them really difficult.

Possibly hot guy: Really you know German? Can you teach me some stuff Im struggling with these compound words!

You: Yeah sure

Possibly hot guy: Maybe you could teach me over dinner?

You: Yeah I would love to

then dinner + possibly mind blowing sex with a possibly hot guy.

Basically, speak up don't sit there seething with rage when someone assumes you don't know something, it may not go down as above and the guy might not have even been slightly attractive. But you missed an opportunity here to engage in an intellectual conversation and maybe even have founded a new friendship based on common interests. You might be very knowledgeable on languages etc but how are people to know unless you make it clear?
At first u might be afraid that you seem like a show off, but if someone shares their knowledge with you then thats your cue to share some of yours.
I too sometimes get annoyed when people tell me things I already know, but I am so confident in my lovemaking skills that I simply remind myself that they have no way of knowing the extent of my knowledge unless I show it to them, and usually it is done with good intentions or simply as a means of striking up a delightful conversation.
Of course some people wont let you get a word in edge wise but those people are probably trying to show off a meagre bit of knowledge to compensate for a lack of finesse, confidence and experience in the bedroom. Don't bother with them and let them think what they want of you since bedding them would be a serious disappointment anyway.
Hopefully they will find their own path to vociferous and charismatic bedroom antics without your intervention.