clocked car

dmrules

Just found out that a car I bought two weeks ago from dealer was clocked, by 150 000 km!!!!!!What should I do now? I know that the garage was an owner of the car since May this year...

Anan1

First off, how do you know that the indicated mileage is incorrect?

Henry Ford III

Bring the evidence to the dealer and get a refund.

p.s. Why didn't you check before you bought it?

dmrules

Anan1 wrote: »

First off, how do you know that the indicated mileage is incorrect?

Just connected it to computer in diffrent garage, I have a print out aswell...

Sold with 115 km , computer shows 276 km...

djimi

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Bring the evidence to the dealer and get a refund.

p.s. Why didn't you check before you bought it?

Unless the OP can prove that the dealer knew the car was clocked I dont think the dealer is obliged to refund the money, are they? Its not illegal to sell a clocked car; its only illegal to lie about it (or withhold the information if its known to you).

dmrules

djimi wrote: »

Unless the OP can prove that the dealer knew the car was clocked I dont think the dealer is obliged to refund the money, are they? Its not illegal to sell a clocked car; its only illegal to lie about it (or withhold the information if its known to you).

Dealer was advertising the car with 115 km...

Anan1

dmrules wrote: »

Just connected it to computer in diffrent garage, I have a print out aswell...

Sold with 115 km , computer shows 276 km...

Contact the garage and tell them you'd like to return the car for a full refund. If they're not happy to do this then speak to a solicitor.

djimi

dmrules wrote: »

Dealer was advertising the car with 115 km...

Thats not the point; unless you can prove that the dealer knew that the car was clocked and sold the car to you on a fradulant basis then legally speaking he hasnt done anything wrong. As I said, its not against the law to sell a clocked car; its only illegal to lie about it.

RootX

Talk to the dealer first, he may agree to refund you based on the evidence you're having.

If he refuses, try the NCA route, http://www.nca.ie/nca/car-clocking

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Thats not the point; unless you can prove that the dealer knew that the car was clocked and sold the car to you on a fradulant basis then legally speaking he hasnt done anything wrong. As I said, its not against the law to sell a clocked car; its only illegal to lie about it.

Even if the dealer knew nothing about it (which is quite possible), the car was still significantly misdescribed and the customer is therefore entitled to a refund.

maringo

If I bought a car sold to me as having 115 km. on the clock and I discovered that it had more I'd be taking it back and looking for a refund. Sounds like it might be false advertising if they knew about it. Either way you didn't get what you paid for.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Even if the dealer knew nothing about it (which is quite possible), the car was still significantly misdescribed and the customer is therefore entitled to a refund.

Could the dealer not turn around and say that they sold a car which, to the best of their knowledge, had 115k on the clock, which is exactly what the buyer bought?

Im only playing devils advocate here; I dont know the answer to this.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Could the dealer not turn around and say that they sold a car which, to the best of their knowledge, had 115k on the clock, which is exactly what the buyer bought?

Im only playing devils advocate here; I dont know the answer to this.

Ask yourself what would happen if the OP had paid for the car with banknotes which they honestly, albeit incorrectly, believed to be genuine.

dh0011

OP, Ask for a refund, if one is not forthcoming, tell the dealer that if he doesnt give you your money back you will ring Joe Duffy. I hate that man but the threat of using him has helped me a few times when dealing with chancers.

Henry Ford III

djimi wrote: »

Could the dealer not turn around and say that they sold a car which, to the best of their knowledge, had 115k on the clock, which is exactly what the buyer bought?

Their knowledge should have been better. The car wasn't as described.

dmrules

Thanks all, going to the garage tomorrow, will ask for refund... was told by a friend to go to Gardaí first...??? Also, I signed the waiver about warranty is this a problem?
thanks

djimi

What kind of a waiver?

bazz26

dmrules wrote: »

Thanks all, going to the garage tomorrow, will ask for refund... was told by a friend to go to Gardaí first...??? Also, I signed the waiver about warranty is this a problem?
thanks

You should still be protected under the Sales of Goods act but why on earth did you do that?

dmrules

That the car is sold without warranty...

bazz26

Now you know why. I wouldn't buy any car from a dealer who isn't prepared to stand over it. I think you will have a tough battle on your hands in getting a refund.

dmrules

bazz26 wrote: »

You should still be protected under the Sales of Goods act but why on earth did you do that?

I have no idea... excitement of buying a new car!!! I feel like a fool now...

L-M

What is it? Diesel repmobile by any chance.

michael999999

If he doesn't give your money back. Get a big ****ing sign with ' clocked sold cars here' printed on it and stand outside he's front gate!

dmrules

Limerick man wrote: »

What is it? Diesel repmobile by any chance.

Merc e220 diesel...I think it was a Hackney previously... and I thought I got a bargain...!!! wrong!!!

Jimmy Garlic

djimi wrote: »

Thats not the point; unless you can prove that the dealer knew that the car was clocked and sold the car to you on a fradulant basis then legally speaking he hasnt done anything wrong. As I said, its not against the law to sell a clocked car; its only illegal to lie about it.

You would think that would be something a dealer would check in fairness.

ba_barabus

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You would think that would be something a dealer would check in fairness.

I'm getting the impression that he did in this case

Jimmy Garlic

michael999999 wrote: »

If he doesn't give your money back. Get a big ****ing sign with ' clocked sold cars here' printed on it and stand outside he's front gate!

I saw someone doing that in relation to something else outside a dealership before. It is very bad for business so it is a great way to get satisfaction if you have been screwed.

L-M

Jaysus. What year?

carzony

dh0011 wrote: »

OP, Ask for a refund, if one is not forthcoming, tell the dealer that if he doesnt give you your money back you will ring Joe Duffy. I hate that man but the threat of using him has helped me a few times when dealing with chancers.

My mother done that when she was being messed around by a car dealer. She bought a peugeot and the gearbox kept acting up. After 3 weeks, She rang him one day in a temper and said ''right, i'm ringing Joe Duffy and i'm gonna do whatever I can to let everyone know what type of garage your running'' It actually really helped and the problem got sorted later that day

dh0011

I really have no time for the man but he can end a business in a day. I have never rang him but when dealing with lads acting the micky dropping his name makes a lot of difference.

dmrules

Limerick man wrote: »

Jaysus. What year?

2005... I know the mileage seemed low for that year...but you are buying from the dealer so no worries??!!!correct????!!!

L-M

dmrules wrote: »

2005... I know the mileage seemed low for that year...but you are buying from the dealer so no worries??!!!correct????!!!

Not really lol...

Way too low for an 8 year old E class diesel infairness.

See what tomorrow brings.

ba_barabus

dmrules wrote: »

2005... I know the mileage seemed low for that year...but you are buying from the dealer so no worries??!!!correct????!!!

What type of dealer? Was it a main dealer or some guy selling from a yard?

dmrules

I know it was cheap but there are a few scratches, worn seats etc. so I thought they just want to get rid of it... Yes it is main dealer...well known in Cork...

L-M

You can take this as fact a Merc with anything worn is a high miler. Ive seen Mercs with big miles and no wear. They show wear with mileage, thats it.

irish bloke

dmrules wrote: »

Yes it is main dealer...well known in Cork...

That increases your chances of getting a refund, best of luck. You can be sure the dealer knew though.

Did the waiver only talk about warranty and not "sold as seen" or something similar.

mickdw

IMO the dealer does not have a leg to stand on. Even if they did not clock it themselves, they, being motor traders are deemed to have sufficient knowledge, certainly more than the customer and should reasonably be able to see that the car was clocked. If it was generally worn looking,well its a no brainer that it was a high mileage car. For a dealer to argue that they wouldnt have known this would be laughable. They should surely give a refund if they are reputable.
Im assuming this wasnt a mercedes dealer.

Motorcheck

If it's a main dealer I would expect them to take the car back immediately. Especially if you've had a diagnostic report that proves the odometer was interfered with. Hopefully the transaction was relatively straight forward and you don't have a part exchange to go chasing after too?

dmrules

Hi all, just a quick update, went to dealer today, apparently they "didn't know about it"... they will chase the previous owner...got the cheque straight away... thanks everyone for insightful advices and be aware...

dh0011

good to hear you got sorted

badgerbroc11

dmrules wrote: »

Merc e220 diesel...I think it was a Hackney previously... and I thought I got a bargain...!!! wrong!!!

National consumer agency very active on the at the moment.
http://www.thejournal.ie/national-consumer-agency-took-over-100-actions-in-2012-988039-Jul2013/

visual

Clocking cars is big problem here as everyone is hiding behind if it can't be proved they clocked and knowing sold it on they are in the clear.

This isn't true it's illegal to misrepresent the mileage and sell on, It might be the case the dealer was also defrauded but that is up to the dealer to back track and follow up with.

The course of readdress is between buyer and seller. Unless the dealer specifically stated the mileage was incorrect then it's their problem.

Look for full refund from dealer.

yammagamma

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

Making gain or causing loss by deception.


6.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception induces another to do or refrain from doing an act is guilty of an offence.


(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

AND/OR

Forgery.

25.—(1) A person is guilty of forgery if he or she makes a false instrument with the intention that it shall be used to induce another person to accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, to the prejudice of that person or any other person.

AND/OR
Using false instrument.
26.—(1) A person who uses an instrument which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a false instrument, with the intention of inducing another person to accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, or to provide some service, to the prejudice of that person or any other person is guilty of an offence.

2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.