Season 8 Episode 2 - Every Silver Lining... [Spoilers]

snausages

Weaker than last week's. Vogel is so obviously playing Dexter. I'm hoping we're not in for another Geller/Travis Marshall season. It's always so frustrating when the viewer spots things before Dexter.

gnfnrhead

Glad I'm not the only one to think that. Thought I might have been too cynical but I think it's rather obvious she is only using him. I think she may be involved with whoever was holding the gun. I doubt it was her holding it, but I reckon she is working with whoever it was. Using Dexter as a hitman of sorts to take out people she has problems with for whatever reason.

vitani

Vogel is definitely playing Dexter. There's also an element of 'was she right?' about him when she gave Harry the code in the first place. I'm liking the little moments of surprise she has when he reveals different emotions he's experienced and ways he wanted to connect to the world. If anyone is a psychopath, it's definitely her.

There's something fishy with Deb and El Sapo. Did they explain what gun she used and how she got it? When El Sapo got into his car, he definitely had her gun. It actually made me laugh, because it was so heavy-handed in showing us. The show has gotten less subtle every season.

pixelburp

Vogel's speech about psychopaths being a blessing to humanity set off a whole host of alarm bells to be honest; usually when the scientists starts admiring their subject in these sorts of fictions it tends to suggest they've gone a bit off kilter. She herself seems to lack a lot of empathy, and while it's a bit too obvious she was the one holding the gun, her personality seems a bit psychotic in its own way.

Hande hoche!

Really hoping that Vogel isn't the brain surgeon killer. The gun thing confused me too with regards Deb, seems she maybe carries a near identically sized backup gun.

SureYWouldntYa

how did Dexter not figure out it was Deb who killed El Sapo , was fairly obvious

filler type of episode, not much happened but at same time wasn't terrible

syklops

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

how did Dexter not figure out it was Deb who killed El Sapo , was fairly obvious

He did.

The gun thing confused me too with regards Deb, seems she maybe carries a near identically sized backup gun.

Doesn't have to be an identical gun, just identical calibre. She uses if memory serves me, a Glock 26 which is a pretty small gun. She could have another one hidden somewhere. Although with her legs, not sure she could hide a boot holster.

Hande hoche!

syklops wrote: »

He did.




Doesn't have to be an identical gun, just identical calibre. She uses if memory serves me, a Glock 26 which is a pretty small gun. She could have another one hidden somewhere. Although with her legs, not sure she could hide a boot holster.

Good eye, was thinking it was a Glock 19 myself but your suggestion would make more sense. Was expecting something along the lines of a small revolver in terms of a backup.

SureYWouldntYa

syklops wrote: »

He did.

oops. i meant before checking the blood

Rosy Posy

I agree that it's crushingly obvious that Vogel is not what she seems- I really hope they don't drag that out over the rest of the season a la DDK and the big 'reveal'. It hacks me off that Dexter can be so smart and instinctive in some ways and totally clueless in others. I thought it was weird when he chose to interpret the DVD she gave him of Harry discussing his kills and his mo as a reminder of an obligation to her for supporting him- to my mind it was a threat, although in condoning it she implicates herself. If I were Dexter I'd be incredibly nervous of such evidence existing and I'd be less inclined to help her as to let the brain-scooping psycho have her or else finish her myself and torch her archives while I was at it.

I also didn't understand why when they found out that the hunter dude was the murderer that he continued to conceal evidence from the department and pursue it himself. Surely if yer man wasn't Vogel's patient there would be no threat to her?

On a side note, I actually think that Dexter's continual obstruction of justice is a worse crime, morally speaking, than the murders he has committed within the framework of the code. Of course there are the people he's killed or allowed to die that don't fit the code like yer wan's dad and Briggs. I wonder what Vogel would think or do about it if she knew he'd broken out of the code?

JohnK

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I also didn't understand why when they found out that the hunter dude was the murderer that he continued to conceal evidence from the department and pursue it himself. Surely if yer man wasn't Vogel's patient there would be no threat to her?

Even though the guy wasn't a patient of hers, it would still make for some really awkward questions about why he was leaving parts of his victims brain outside Vogel's house and why she never reported that to the police. Once that was revealed in an interrogation room it could have exposed her and by extension, Dexter himself.

wandatowell

School girl error when Deb got caught in the storage area.


She knew that El Sapo was after the jewels and she would have been the only lead.


so called ex cop should know she was beeing tailed

pixelburp

I think it's fair to say at this stage that the Miami Police featured in Dexter are pretty incompetent at the best of times; I've simply come to accept that collectively they're utterly braindead, makes it easier to swallow the routine lapses in judgement. To be fair, Deb is clearly in the gutter atm & could be forgiven for making mistakes, but otherwise? The cops in Dexter are morons

pixelburp

Based of the first two episodes of this final season, I wonder perhaps if the climax is going to be centered around a form of sacrifice / redemption on behalf of Deb?

In the second episode, it finally dawned on Dexter that he is directly responsible for destroying Deb's life; the sister he knew and loved so dearly is ruined & all the blame can be squarely heaped at his door. You then take all the talk from Vogel about psychopaths lacking empathy and I wonder if this will act as a spur for Dex (and narrative mirror for the audience) - he realises the damage he has caused to the one person he feels for, and as a final act will either give his life, or at the very least take enough blame to absolve Deb of all sins, giving her a decent life again.

Clearly there's no happy ending in any of this, not for Dexter anyway, but I sense that the ending might revolve around Deb getting some form of closure & happiness. She's a lost soul atm, and a last shot at redemption for Dexter.

Dilynnio

I can't believe i'm saying this but Dexter looks so hot this season!

gavmcg92

Average episode. Wasn't as good as I was expecting. Sort of seems like they slammed on the brakes after, what could be considered, an action packed spoiler clip at the end of last weeks episode. I was expecting more this week. Came across as a filler episode. Hopefully it picks up next week.

gavmcg92

pixelburp wrote: »

Clearly there's no happy ending in any of this, not for Dexter anyway, but I sense that the ending might revolve around Deb getting some form of closure & happiness. She's a lost soul atm, and a last shot at redemption for Dexter.

It's possible that it's going to be a bit of a double edged sword. Perhaps Deb is so far gone that the ultimate sacrifice from Dexter might not be enough to bring her closure and happiness.

pixelburp

gavmcg92 wrote: »

It's possible that it's going to be a bit of a double edged sword. Perhaps Deb is so far gone that the ultimate sacrifice from Dexter might not be enough to bring her closure and happiness.

Feck; I actually posted my thoughts in the wrong thread - it was meant for the 'How do we think it'll all end' one.

I don't think Deb is beyond hope, but it's going to require an effort from Dexter because her fate it linked with his. For her to be redeemed, Dexter has to step up

vitani

pixelburp wrote: »

Feck; I actually posted my thoughts in the wrong thread - it was meant for the 'How do we think it'll all end' one.

I don't think Deb is beyond hope, but it's going to require an effort from Dexter because her fate it linked with his. For her to be redeemed, Dexter has to step up

When he was in the evidence room with the two guns, I thought at that point that this sort of thing is what will finally undo him. He won't get caught himself, but I think it will be him protecting and covering up for Deb that catches him out.

Walt Grace

Decent episode, obviously trying to set things up for the season.

Vogel is definitely playing Dex, but to what end who knows. I hop eshe doesnt end up being the "Brain Surgeon" or controlling said person, seems just too obvious :rolleyes:

Also get the feeling that Quinn still has feelings for Deb :eek:

Shane St.

pixelburp wrote: »

Based of the first two episodes of this final season, I wonder perhaps if the climax is going to be centered around a form of sacrifice / redemption on behalf of Deb?

In the second episode, it finally dawned on Dexter that he is directly responsible for destroying Deb's life; the sister he knew and loved so dearly is ruined & all the blame can be squarely heaped at his door. You then take all the talk from Vogel about psychopaths lacking empathy and I wonder if this will act as a spur for Dex (and narrative mirror for the audience) - he realises the damage he has caused to the one person he feels for, and as a final act will either give his life, or at the very least take enough blame to absolve Deb of all sins, giving her a decent life again.

Clearly there's no happy ending in any of this, not for Dexter anyway, but I sense that the ending might revolve around Deb getting some form of closure & happiness. She's a lost soul atm, and a last shot at redemption for Dexter.

my exact thoughts... Thing that's how things will go down

syklops

wandatowell wrote: »

School girl error when Deb got caught in the storage area.


She knew that El Sapo was after the jewels and she would have been the only lead.


so called ex cop should know she was beeing tailed

She's not intense, highly focused, highly motivated Deborah Morgan, Detective any more, she is barely keeping it together, borderline alcoholic, recently taken up coke Deborah Morgan. Her head is not fully in the game anymore, which is probably why she left the force.

I hope its just a phase. I'd like a return to switched on Deb before the end.

mahamageehad

Vogel is creepy!!!!!

Going by what a mess Deb is now potentially she needs to kill Dex at the end and then will feel so guilty she kills herself? Anyways enough idle speculation!

Interesting around the Deb/killer angle, ok we know her blood was outside the window and we did see her have flashbacks of approaching the car and shooting but do we really know she did it? I mean she doesn't remember any of it. Maybe she stumbled out, went to his car cutting herself on the window looking in, saw he was dead and panicked and left. "I found myself standing over a dead body". Someone else killed him while she was in the storage unit. Otherwise- 1. Where did Deb get the gun? 2. Why so many shots- we know from season 5(?) that Deb is a great shot. 3. Where did the jewels go?

Maybe Vogel is a little shocked that Dex has managed to create such emotional bonds with his sister and she had someone following Deb to make sure she was ok and then the whole shooting thing was a setup to try to further strain their relationship?

gnfnrhead

I dont believe Deb did the shooting. Dont know how to explain the blood, but I cant see her being the one to have pulled the trigger.

whitewave

vitani wrote: »

. The show has gotten less subtle every season.

+1. And just in case we don't follow anything they show us, they have Dexter's inner monologue telling us absolutely every obvious bit of information anyway!

Rosy Posy

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I dont believe Deb did the shooting. Dont know how to explain the blood, but I cant see her being the one to have pulled the trigger.

I don't think Deb would have a problem shooting a scumbag like El Sappo. She shot that dude in the bar (can't remember which season but it was before she became captain) and had no regrets. He's a hitman ffs, he even fits the code.

JohnK

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Dont know how to explain the blood, but I cant see her being the one to have pulled the trigger.

I'm not entirely convinced she killed him either, not that she wouldn't if given the chance but the fact she lost her gun and the amount of time that seems to have passed between her being left in the locker and the guy being shot just seems too short; it looks like he was about to drive away at the end of the scene so he must have been shot nearly immediately. As for the blood, well she could have just come out of the storage place in a bit of a daze and seen him in a bullet riddled car then reached in to check for a pulse or check for the jewellery, cutting her arm and leaving some blood in the process.

vitani

I'll need to watch again this evening to check but does anyone remember if Deb actually told Dexter that she killed El Sapo, or was what she said more ambiguous than that? I remember her saying something about wanting the jewellery back.

Like, if we hadn't seen the flashback of her holding the gun and shooting him, would we know for sure it was her, going by what she said?

JohnK

She said she was a bit fuzzy and the next thing she knew she was standing over a dead body. She had some flashbacks in the room with Quinn but she could just have been imagining things based on what she assumes happened and what she was hearing from Quinn. She did say she killed him but if you were to snap out of a trance over a dead body you'd probably assume you did it anyway.

Neil3030

Am i right in saying that they still haven't cleared up how Deb and Dexter got away with killing La Guerta? I mean, Police Captain killed with bullet from Liutennant's gun...? Bit of a tricky little narrative to massage...

Rosy Posy

Neil3030 wrote: »

Am i right in saying that they still haven't cleared up how Deb and Dexter got away with killing La Guerta? I mean, Police Captain killed with bullet from Liutennant's gun...? Bit of a tricky little narrative to massage...

This is driving me nuts too!!! I'll be p!ssed if they just gloss over it as they appear to be doing.

Walt Grace

Neil3030 wrote: »

Am i right in saying that they still haven't cleared up how Deb and Dexter got away with killing La Guerta? I mean, Police Captain killed with bullet from Liutennant's gun...? Bit of a tricky little narrative to massage...

I'm sure Batista will figure it out...after all he is a "good detective"! :rolleyes:

pixelburp

I presume the simplest solution would have been for Deb to dispose of her gun, but that in itself would have raised other problems, investigations and red-tape when she returned to the station with her gun missing.

In slim defense of the show, season 8 did start many months after the events of last year's climax, so all the fallout from LeGuerta's death had already taken place & we're asked to hit the ground running. Of course it's also incredibly lazy because it simply ignores the inconsistencies or plot-holes & pretends they didn't exist.

But hey, it's Dexter: who watches this show for its rigorous approach to police procedure, or for its crack team of supercops? From day 1, Miami Homicide was written as an ineffective team of neurotics, politicals and f*ck-ups (Batista & Quinn's rabbeting about what great cops they were shows the writers are still in on that joke). It was interesting at the beginning as it made Dexters evasion of the law seem credible. Now of course the suspension of disbelief is at breaking point, but by now I just try (very hard) to roll with it all.

gnfnrhead

There was a reddit post with a **** tonne of inconsistencies in this episode. The biggest one for me being Dexter going to the hunting cabin.

The cabin is between Lake Nona and Red Lake. Two real-life Florida lakes, in Orlando. I scant three and a half hours from Miami. For a total time of almost 8 hours. Driving there, finding the cabin, exploring the cabin, driving back. Since it was already dark when Dexter got to Debs, that means 8-9 o'clock. He goes to the cabin, comes back, it's now 4-5 AM. Vogel is still awake, just hanging out, ready for company at 5 in the morning?

I assumed they were either made up places, or near Miami. Turns out it is quite a bit away.

Neil3030

If Deb's drunk at her house, Dexter's talking to Vogel/vetting the killer, and Jamie's going out with Quinn, where the **** is Harrison?

:pac:

Anyone got a link to that reddit post?
It's like a maze when I try to read it


I used to be with it,
but then they changed what "it" was.

wandatowell

Walt Grace wrote: »

I'm sure Batista will figure it out...after all he is a "good detective"! :rolleyes:

Nearly every cop in the whole show has jumped Batista for promotion by now.


Who the f*ck is he to giving Quinn sh*t over not doing his exams

wandatowell

Abe Simpson wrote: »

I used to be with it,
but then they changed what "it" was.

Hello Abe!

ben.schlomo

Neil3030 wrote: »

Am i right in saying that they still haven't cleared up how Deb and Dexter got away with killing La Guerta? I mean, Police Captain killed with bullet from Liutennant's gun...? Bit of a tricky little narrative to massage...

Batista said in this episode that the the guy who killed Dexters mother was LaGuertas killer. Assuming that Dex set the scene up somehow.

georgieM

I think this Jacob guy had deb tailed or maybe he stayed close himself (if I had someone looking for all that jewelry i would be keeping another eye on them) and he killed el sapo and took the bag

snausages

I'm thinking that Vogel's line 'I don't fit Harry's code' will probably have relevance again later on, although it would be very stupid considering how the code has been little more than a rough guide in recent seasons what with Dexter killing hillbillies and dirty cops just because they're in his way. Although maybe Vogel doesn't know how far he's gone.

jos28

I have just watched episode 2 and I am losing all interest in Dexter at this stage. I'm not buying the Vogel character at all. As Neil3030 pointed out I hate the way they have glossed over the investigation into La Guerta's killing. Batista just comes back to work as if he never left at all. He had a retirement party last season :rolleyes:
I'm beginning to think they should have ended it last season with Debs shooting Dexter not La Guerta. As an aside, I was watching with my son and was telling him that Charlotte Rampling was a fine woman in her day. He agreed !

FearDark

What a load of crap.

If Vogel turns out to be the brain surgeon fair enough but if its dragged out until the season finale I'll throw the television out the window. It's such an awful show, shame.

loveisdivine

I really wanted this season to be focused solely on Dexter and him being found out. It seems though that Deb's blackout might be drawn out for a few episodes, plus the Vogel thing will probably get drawn out too.

I have zero interest in Deb's new storylines.