The cursed plastic bottle - a solution

Chinasea

Especially but by no means exclusive to the nice weather, is the national abundance of the cursed plastic empty 'pop' drinks bottles littered in every nook and cranny of the country.

Why oh why can't we just adapt the Deposit Refund system for empty plastic bottles and cans. It is so easy to run and everyone benefits.

http://voiceireland.org/waste/urge-minister-hogan-to-adopt-a-depositrefund-system-for-bottles-and-cans/

"In the Netherlands, the government charges a 25c deposit on all plastic bottles which has resulted in a 95% return. In Sweden, they have an 84% return for their PET bottles and Finland boasts a 92% return for PET bottles as a result of their deposit/refund system."

In the link above there is a link to a template urging Minister Hogan to wake up and do something about this national scourge. Please sign and send.

Chinasea

Terrible shame that this minister has rejected plans to introduce a BADLY needed deposit-and-return scheme for these bloody bottles that lie scattered every inch of the country.

I honestly believe that the Irish public would have really got behind this scheme should it have been introduced. It is such a success in all the 'cleaned' up countries that it operates in.

I have no faith in this man.

Don't let this incentive die.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/minister-for-environment-scraps-plans-to-introduce-packaging-levy-1.1524305

Jolly Red Giant

Here is another solution -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14722179

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp7Kp477Wg

Birdnuts

Chinasea wrote: »

Terrible shame that this minister has rejected plans to introduce a BADLY needed deposit-and-return scheme for these bloody bottles that lie scattered every inch of the country.

I honestly believe that the Irish public would have really got behind this scheme should it have been introduced. It is such a success in all the 'cleaned' up countries that it operates in.

I have no faith in this man.

Don't let this incentive die.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/minister-for-environment-scraps-plans-to-introduce-packaging-levy-1.1524305[/QUOTE]

You would think it would be the obvious way to go. The most litter I see know on lake shores,beaches etc. are plastic bottles. Says a lot about politicians in this country that the minister concerned can't be bothered to get the finger out on this issue:mad:

zagmund

I caught a few snippets of the announcement from the minister and it seemed that he was saying (in essence) "ah, it'll be hard work lads, why don't we just skip it?". I know that wasn't actually what he said, but it sure sounded very like it. Apparently it will add to the bureaucracy. This hasn't stopped them before. It's not like *every other country in the world* doesn't already manage to operate a bottle/can recycling system.

Either that or "the plastics lobby got to me lads, there's nothing I could do"

The other classic line was "ah sure, it would only end up being passed on to the customer, so we actually saved you money". Yeah right. Given a choice between a heavily packaged product (including a levy which is passed on to me) and one which has no packaging & attracts no levy and so is cheaper, I'll opt for the cheaper one all by myself thanks. The implication in the "it will be passed on to the consumer" claim was that we had no choice. Only we do have choice, that's the whole point. Choose less packaging, choose to save money. Win, win. Only this is Ireland, so de Minister decides to save us from ourselves.

Either that or "the plastics lobby got to me lads, there's nothing I could do"

z

Judgement Day

Like the chewing gum lobby. :rolleyes:

Mickcarmdy

It's a good idea, but you might get a lot of people from Mexico, collecting bottles and turning them into cash.

Sh1tbag OToole

I think Pepsi started using biodegradable bottles in the states.

Pity our overlords have an allergy to common sense...

Filibuster

Is it really worth the hassle?? With the introduction of bin charges most people rarely put out the black bin and are recycling more and more. Indeed according to the EPA, we recycle nearly 80% of our packaging waste (2nd highest rate after Germany). Why make it more inconvenient for people...

http://www.epa.ie/newsandevents/news/previous/2013/march/name,51283,en.html

Sh1tbag OToole

Filibuster wrote: »

Is it really worth the hassle?? With the introduction of bin charges most people rarely put out the black bin and are recycling more and more. Indeed according to the EPA, we recycle nearly 80% of our packaging waste (2nd highest rate after Germany). Why make it more inconvenient for people...

http://www.epa.ie/newsandevents/news/previous/2013/march/name,51283,en.html

If people got 1 or .5 of a cent for every bit of plastic in those bins the countryside would be cleaned up nicely.

The current "negative value" (you have to pay to get rid of it one way or another) on recyclable items is what makes people feck it out the car window and so on..

two wheels good

Filibuster wrote: »

Is it really worth the hassle?? With the introduction of bin charges most people rarely put out the black bin and are recycling more and more. Indeed according to the EPA, we recycle nearly 80% of our packaging waste (2nd highest rate after Germany). Why make it more inconvenient for people...

http://www.epa.ie/newsandevents/news/previous/2013/march/name,51283,en.html

I think the Deposit-Return scheme is definitely "worth the hassle". The example from other EU countries is that it is very effective.

We have a serious litter problem and drinks containers are a significant proportion of litter.
Plus, a lot of useful resources are going to landfill. I've read some reports that recycling rates of plastic bottles is 39% and aluminium cans 55% so I think that 80% (79%?) figure you've cherry-picked needs to be broken-down further.

As for making it inconvenient: It will be "inconvenient" for the retailer and the producer. The consumer can simply choose to forfeit the deposit.
The retailer is already obliged to handle packaging waste and this would add to it.
As to the cost - let the soft drink and alcohol producers pay. And if they plead inability I say let them reallocate some of their marketing budgets.

Filibuster

two wheels good wrote: »

As for making it inconvenient: It will be "inconvenient" for the retailer and the producer. The consumer can simply choose to forfeit the deposit.
The retailer is already obliged to handle packaging waste and this would add to it.
As to the cost - let the soft drink and alcohol producers pay. And if they plead inability I say let them reallocate some of their marketing budgets.

Well it would be inconvenient for the consumers. Instead of just throwing the bottles & cans into the green bin, you would have to have a separate storage area in your home, wait for a sufficient quantity to accumulate and then bring them back to the shop and scan them individually through the machine.

A "deposit scheme" won't solve the litter problem. It would only address plastic bottles and cans. More public bins is the solution and greater rotation time emptying them by the council.

Macha

Filibuster wrote: »

Well it would be inconvenient for the consumers. Instead of just throwing the bottles & cans into the green bin, you would have to have a separate storage area in your home, wait for a sufficient quantity to accumulate and then bring them back to the shop and scan them individually through the machine.

A "deposit scheme" won't solve the litter problem. It would only address plastic bottles and cans. More public bins is the solution and greater rotation time emptying them by the council.

It works. The evidence is there in countries where it's been introduced. In Norway, recycling rates of plastic bottles included in the system are well over 90%:

http://www.resirk.no/en/about-us/about-norsk-resirk/

Norwesterner

I grew up before plastic bottles were endemic.
We had glass bottles that were returned, washed and re-used.
There's your solution.
Nothing complicated.

two wheels good

Filibuster wrote: »

Well it would be inconvenient for the consumers. Instead of just throwing the bottles & cans into the green bin, you would have to have a separate storage area in your home, wait for a sufficient quantity to accumulate and then bring them back to the shop and scan them individually through the machine.

A "deposit scheme" won't solve the litter problem. It would only address plastic bottles and cans. More public bins is the solution and greater rotation time emptying them by the council.

No additional inconvenience would be imposed on the consumer by a D-R scheme. A consumer may throw the containers in the recycling bin as usual; the forfeit of the deposit being the only penalty.

No, the scheme won't solve the litter problem - for one thing that would require action on fast-food packaging too - but can and bottle litter will be reduced. Currently, it comprises a significant portion of litter.

A documentary I recall on a similar scheme somewhere in the US explained how the streets were picked clean of discarded containers by people looking to reclaim the deposit.
The unintended consequence was the local authority's income from the sale of the waste resource was reduced.

So, I'd expect a possible complications re-negotiating contracts with refuse hauliers and securing can and bottle banks from pilferers. Trivial problem compared with the current litter problem

Re. the old D-R scheme in Ireland, many years ago: Anyone I've spoken to about it remembers it fondly as a means of supplementing pocket money.

Sh1tbag OToole

two wheels good wrote: »

No additional inconvenience would be imposed on the consumer by a D-R scheme. A consumer may throw the containers in the recycling bin as usual; the forfeit of the deposit being the only penalty.

No, the scheme won't solve the litter problem - for one thing that would require action on fast-food packaging too - but can and bottle litter will be reduced. Currently, it comprises a significant portion of litter.

A documentary I recall on a similar scheme somewhere in the US explained how the streets were picked clean of discarded containers by people looking to reclaim the deposit.
The unintended consequence was the local authority's income from the sale of the waste resource was reduced.

So, I'd expect a possible complications re-negotiating contracts with refuse hauliers and securing can and bottle banks from pilferers. Trivial problem compared with the current litter problem

Re. the old D-R scheme in Ireland, many years ago: Anyone I've spoken to about it remembers it fondly as a means of supplementing pocket money.

The local authority won't make money from the rubbish but they won't have to pay anyone to clean it up. Even if they get slightly less, thats a good thing, those boys get too much money as it is. Besides, you'd hardly think any council in Ireland would be so efficient that they actually make money from people's rubbish. Some politician's buddy is probably being paid to take it off their hands

I thought the bag tax was a terrible idea at the start but now at least you don't see that particular item of rubbish around the place. Now getting rid of the bottles and cans would be a good idea, empty snackboxes next

Norwesterner

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

The local authority won't make money from the rubbish but they won't have to pay anyone to clean it up. Even if they get slightly less, thats a good thing, those boys get too much money as it is. Besides, you'd hardly think any council in Ireland would be so efficient that they actually make money from people's rubbish. Some politician's buddy is probably being paid to take it off their hands

I thought the bag tax was a terrible idea at the start but now at least you don't see that particular item of rubbish around the place. Now getting rid of the bottles and cans would be a good idea, empty snackboxes next

The bag tax was a terrible idea.
They should just bring in American style paper bags, and/or biodegradable bags.
But hey there's no money in that.

Macha

Norwesterner wrote: »

The bag tax was a terrible idea.
They should just bring in American style paper bags, and/or biodegradable bags.
But hey there's no money in that.

The bag tax wasn't a terrible idea: it also worked.

Biodegradable/paper bags aren't perfect, they put pressure to increase biomass resources, which have to come from forests. Methods to reduce consumption should always be considered before substitution.

Filibuster

Macha wrote: »

The bag tax wasn't a terrible idea: it also worked.

Biodegradable/paper bags aren't perfect, they put pressure to increase biomass resources, which have to come from forests. Methods to reduce consumption should always be considered before substitution.

Paper production comes from resources from planted forests. The more paper we use the more forests are planted.

Macha

Filibuster wrote: »

Paper production comes from resources from planted forests. The more paper we use the more forests are planted.

Are planted forests (ie tree crops) good for the environment? Not really. Pretty bad for biodiversity actually. So are more tree plantations good for the environment? Highly questionable.

Is all paper production from forest plantations? I don't know of any legislation that obliges this.

Fries-With-That

two wheels good wrote: »

A documentary I recall on a similar scheme somewhere in the US explained how the streets were picked clean of discarded containers by people looking to reclaim the deposit.
The unintended consequence was the local authority's income from the sale of the waste resource was reduced.

So, I'd expect a possible complications re-negotiating contracts with refuse hauliers and securing can and bottle banks from pilferers. Trivial problem compared with the current litter problem

Here is the crux of the issue, local councils all over the country supplement their budgets with substantial payments from companies that collect bottles and cans from recycling locations.

The next time you visit your local bottle bank be it at a community centre or a supermarket or a council recycling centre, remember your bottles are being sold by the council and this is the main reason that there is a reluctance to introduce a deposit scheme.

AFAIK the local authority are paid per tonne collected.

Sh1tbag OToole

Norwesterner wrote: »

The bag tax was a terrible idea.
They should just bring in American style paper bags, and/or biodegradable bags.
But hey there's no money in that.

Most places have. Very few people actually pay the bag tax. How it should be really

jimmy2pens

I was in Finland a few years ago at racing event. In the field I was in there were possibly 3-4000 spectators. There were several youngsters walking around with bin bags collecting cans and plastic bottles. They were very eager. On further investigation I found out that there was a refund and deposit scheme in operation. I telling ye there wasn't a bottle or can in sight when that field emptied out. It was a payday for the local youngsters!

Capt'n Midnight

Norwesterner wrote: »

The bag tax was a terrible idea.
They should just bring in American style paper bags, and/or biodegradable bags.
But hey there's no money in that.

LOL

The plastic bag tax takes in €16m a year, more than enough to cover the real cost of the senate.

Chinasea

Norwesterner wrote: »

The bag tax was a terrible idea.
They should just bring in American style paper bags, and/or biodegradable bags.
But hey there's no money in that.

Ah the indoctrinated disposable mindset.

But paper is waste too and so unnecessary,when you can bring your reusable heavy duty bag with you when you shop. You can easily carry round one of the cloth bags too that fold into a tiny little ball - hardly an inconvenience.

Capt'n Midnight

Paper bags ?

http://www.met.ie/climate-ireland/rainfall.asp

The general impression is that it rains quite a lot of the time in Ireland, but two out of three hourly observations will not report any measurable rainfall. The average number of wet days (days 1mm or more of rain) ranges from about 150 days a year along the east and south east coasts, to about 225 days a year in parts of the west.

envaction

That is very true. I mean why can't we do something more about this? I would think that they would want to do more because this is a huge issue. It's like they don't even care about it that much.

Macha

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