Questions on Apple Product Warranty and EU-wide / Irish consumer laws?

drunkmonkey

My questions relate to the Apple One-Year Limited Warranty offered with their products,

I'm going to take an Apple iPhone as an example, retails for about €669 Euro , Apple offer a 1 Year warranty and after that as stated on their website if you've a problem you've to go back to the seller as the apple warranty has expired. (it's no longer apple's problem)

From what Apple show on their website they hint that this cover should be up to 6 years and be provided by the seller.

All this can be seen on the Apple website here http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

Do Irish sellers have an obligation to cover the cost of any repairs to this product that develop over the lifetime of the product?
Can a seller state that their warranty is only 12mts this avoiding having to support Apple's products for up to 6 years.

How can apple get away with out offering a 1 year warranty? Would you agree that the law is not fair as it lets manufacturers avoid offering a proper warranty?

Apple will offer a 2yr warranty with the purchase of their apple care product with is €69 on top of the price of an iphone. (is this another way to avoid irish consumer law?, why should you have to pay extra for a 2 year warranty when ever other phone manufacturer offers 2yrs as standard?)

Why in Irish law is the seller fully responsible for the warranty and the manufacturer is not?

No Pants

Generally if you're going to run into problems with an electronic device, it happens within the first 90 days.

No Pants

Generally if you're going to run into problems with an electronic device, it happens within the first 90 days. As far as I know, your consumer rights are always with the person you hand the money to, ie. the seller.

slimjimmc

Statutory rights are not the same as a guarantee. A guarantee is a perk in addition to statutory rights. In fact manufacturers are under no obligation to offer any guarantee whatsoever but where they do it forms part of the product and they must honour it. So Apple are perfectly entitled to offer a 1 year guarantee if they so wish.

Irish consumer law does not state any fixed period of cover other than to say if a defect is found in the first 6mths then it's assumed to have been there from day #1; it is based on the principle of what is reasonable, i.e. reasonable life of the product, reasonable redress.
The contract is between you and the retailer, so it's the retailer who is legally obliged to repair, replace or refund out defects within reason. If both parties can't agree among themselves on what is reasonable then there is the option of letting a judge decide (e.g small claims court).

The 6 years you refer to stem from the Statute of Limitations which basically says you have up to 6 years to seek redress. That's not the same as saying the Apple retailer must fix all defects for the first 6 years, just that if a defect is found you have up to 6 years to start pursuing it through the courts (afaik).

LowKeyReturn

I have no idea how apple get their reputation as this customer friendly, top quality blah, blah, they simply seemed to have used the same strategy that Sony did, which was to dupe people by charging more, people then assumed - wow must be better! Rant about these anti-competitive IP thieves aside you question is best answered by looking at the legislation.

SOGASOS Act 1980

Sections 15 to 19 deal with guarantees, note this is different to your rights under sections 10 - 14. Section 10 brings in the 1893 Act - yes we've had broadly the same rights since 1893 and people still aren't aware of what they are.

No doubt someone will cite the '2 year European Law' warranty at some point, it's a myth and doesn't exist. The confusion creeps in because of Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 May 1999, which is enacted here under S.I. No. 11/2003 — European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003. The only additional right that SI conferred was to have an issue remedied 'significant inconvenience to the consumer' I've no idea if thats ever been properly defined.

The six years comes from the Statue of Limitations and is not a warranty period but merely a period in which you can sue for your rights. You do this with the person you buy the goods from, do not go chasing the manufacturer. In real computerland where there is actual competition the manufacturers can be better than the sellers, offering 10 year or even unlimited warranties but I digress.

Long story short if something goes wrong with a product within a reasonable life span use the Small Claims Court. Anecdotally cases there seem to be decided in the following way:

Almost everything seems to be supposed to last five years, unless it's been abused damages are awarded proportionate to the age of the product. For example:

Under 1 year old = full refund
1 - 2 years old = 4/5th refund
2 - 3 years old = 3/5th refund

It only costs €25 but the trick is finding the proper company name and actually enforcing the judgment. I found popping into the sheriff's office on a semi-regular basis helped.

England and Wales are simplifying their consumer legislation, hopefully when this is done we'll just lift the Act and enact it here with a few minor changes and a translation into Irish. It's needlessly complicated and vague in both jurisdictions.

LowKeyReturn

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why in Irish law is the seller fully responsible for the warranty and the manufacturer is not?

Google privity of contract.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

LowKey, sounds like you've taken a phone seller to SCC? I've always wondered whether they'd even bother showing up to defend.

LowKeyReturn

Annabella Yummy Student wrote: »

LowKey, sounds like you've taken a phone seller to SCC? I've always wondered whether they'd even bother showing up to defend.

Just helped out on a few through FLAC - no phone sellers though, I'm not sure how it would work with who owns the equipment etc. I'm just a bit of a ranter when it comes to consumer rights. Most places are crap due to incompetence rather than malice.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

By phone sellers I mean meteor, 3, o2 etc.! Didn't want to cause confusion by saying phone companies!

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hullaballoo

It's almost 2 years old, I'm surprised it's lasted you this long!

You need to be very persuasive. If you cannot be, get someone who is to go in and do the deal for you. The legal options are not worth the hassle for the most part.

hardCopy

No Pants wrote: »

Generally if you're going to run into problems with an electronic device, it happens within the first 90 days. As far as I know, your consumer rights are always with the person you hand the money to, ie. the seller.

I don't know where you're getting 90 days from. I've had lots of electronic devices fail through normal use after 90 days. Battery issues would be a common one, my HTC one x had a well documented antenna problem that presented after 6 months making it almost useless over WiFi

LowKeyReturn

mcclaffs wrote: »

Finally spoke to a manager who had never heard of the 2 year EU warranty on electronic products. She said it was apples problem and to contact them directly.

Thats because, on electronic products or otherwise, no 'EU 2 year warranty' exists.

arch_stanton

mcclaffs wrote: »

My 20 month old iPhone is having software issues. 3 sent the phone to fonemenders who want to charge me 150 quid. I rang 3 and spoke to two of the most ignorant people possible. Finally spoke to a manager who had never heard of the 2 year EU warranty on electronic products. She said it was apples problem and to contact them directly. Apple say the seller is responsible........Currently going from pillar to post. In the meantime my phone is sitting in a repair shop not getting fixed. Anybody have this issue before?

If it's a software problem what's it doing in a repair shop? Talk to the nice people in the apple devices forum and if necessary, restore the phone to factory settings with iTunes.

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GarIT

mcclaffs wrote: »

Wow, with definitive statements like that you should work for 3 customer service. Have a read of European Directive 1999/44/EC. Then check out http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/


As for the factory reset - I reset the OS twice and upgraded the OS. The issue seems to be the power to the processor keeps flicking off

Read up about the ammount of time after an event you can sue for and then you will understand this means you can sue within 2 years anywhere in Europe, that does not mean you will win. It just lets you make a case the only law is still that the product must last a reasonable period of time, could even be less than one year depending on the device.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations That is what the directive is, read up on the law before you pretend to understand it.

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LowKeyReturn

mcclaffs wrote: »

Wow, with definitive statements like that you should work for 3 customer service. Have a read of European Directive 1999/44/EC. Then check out http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/


As for the factory reset - I reset the OS twice and upgraded the OS. The issue seems to be the power to the processor keeps flicking off

Have you read that directive? Have you then investigated how directives become law in Ireland. Have you then read S.I. No. 11/2003 — European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003.

After that you might investigate the law as it stands in Ireland which has a six year limitation period.

EDIT: Or you could start reading from the top of the thread which explained all this before you even started. Whats the point of using the search function if you don't then read the thread that's already answered your question.

Also If you find a lot of the people you speak to are ignorant towards you, you might try analysing your own approach to the situation.

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LowKeyReturn

mcclaffs wrote: »

Thanks, but i am curious what i have done to peak your interest. My original post asked if anyone had any similar dealings. I understand the directive, i understand the law. If someone told me my phone was water damaged I could accept that. My problem is nobody is even looking at my phone due to the dispute of the warranty status. My approach to the situation is one of frustration and impatience due to the response I am getting from the carrier

I don't think you understand the law otherwise you would have not made such an elementary error in your dealings with the store manager. That aside your approach is now a simple one; take them to small claims court.

hullaballoo

mcclaffs wrote: »

Thanks, but i am curious what i have done to peak your interest.

Pique, not peak.

donutheadhomer

mcclaffs wrote: »

Wow, with definitive statements like that you should work for 3 customer service. Have a read of European Directive 1999/44/EC. Then check out http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/


As for the factory reset - I reset the OS twice and upgraded the OS. The issue seems to be the power to the processor keeps flicking off

that likn from Apple state a minimum of 2 years - presume it is stated in years to disuade callers/custeorms but it does not state you have a 2 year warranty

Your Europe

You can find information about your consumer rights and specifically two year guarantees in the European Union on this page:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

LowKeyReturn

Your Europe wrote: »

You can find information about your consumer rights and specifically two year guarantees in the European Union on this page:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

Read it again - the piece specifically says 'request' that denotes a limitation period. The Irish limitation period is six years why would you want it changed to a more restrictive standard?