What are the actual customs allowances?

SparkySpitfire

I checked the revenue website but it hasn't been updated since 2010 and my aunt told me that the max for cigarettes now is 200 whereas the revenue page says 800.

I'm only interested in the alcohol anyway, but have no intention of breaking the law, so is there anywhere online that's more updated that can tell me the proper allowances?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html

Mena

Revenue site is gospel in this matter, though arguably, from another EU country and for 'own consumption', there are no limits. Your link there tells you exactly what you need to know.

Pro Hoc Vice

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

I checked the revenue website but it hasn't been updated since 2010 and my aunt told me that the max for cigarettes now is 200 whereas the revenue page says 800.

I'm only interested in the alcohol anyway, but have no intention of breaking the law, so is there anywhere online that's more updated that can tell me the proper allowances?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html

Are you sure it says 800

http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878a.html


Maximum Quantities Goods
200 Cigarettes, or
100 Cigarillos, or

For EU its http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1878.html


Maximum quantity and list of goods allowed as personal use
Maximum Quantity Goods
800 Cigarettes
400 Cigarillos


So ye are both correct, its 200 for outside EU and 800 internal market, not sure they can really enforce the 800 one.

SparkySpitfire

infosys wrote: »

Are you sure it says 800

Yeah I'm sure.

Portugal and Ireland are both in the EU, so the EU regulations apply which means for example that max 800 cigarettes are allowed be brought home for personal consumption, right?

Pro Hoc Vice

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Yeah I'm sure.

Portugal and Ireland are both in the EU, so the EU regulations apply which means for example that max 800 cigarettes are allowed be brought home for personal consumption, right?

Yes with in the EU the "guidelines" are 800 cigarettes, that is revenue saying we think the average person will not personally consume more than 800 for personal use there is a presumption that any more are for sale. My own personal view is that al long as its for personal use there can be no limits, but to the best of my knowledge that has not been tested yet, I have driven through both the UK and into Ireland with hundreds of bottles of wines for personal use way I excess of the 90 litres they say and have never had a problem. If someone has a link to the SI or other legislation setting the limits I would like to see it as I can find it.

In fact to me saying there are customs limits within the EU is like saying I can't buy more than 800 cigs in cork and then take them to Dublin, as long as duty paid in country your are coming from and you are not importing them to sell then in my personal opinion none of Revenues business. But if you don't want to have an argument with Revenue then stick to the 800.

Outside EU its the legal limit of 200. You cannot bring in more than 200 with out risk.

Cody Pomeray

800 cigarettes are merely a "guide", 800 cigarettes being the amount below which no member state may set a personal use' guiding threshold', according to the Directive, which is directly effected.

The relevant directive 92/12/EEC, particularly Articles 8 & 9.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31992L0012:en:HTML

Article 9 indicates that the quantity of cigarettes is just one of the factors that a Revenue agency must take into consideration when deciding whether cigarettes are intended for private or commercial use. Another factor they must consider is the commercial status of the importing person (the holder).

There is also some case law. R v Commissioners of Customs and Excise, Ex parte EMU Tabac Sarl and Others [1998] is an interesting authority on the use of an agent to convey the cigarettes. It is also relevant to importing personal gifts, taken with Customs and Excise v Newbury [2003] EWHC.

I do not know of any directly relevant case law on quantities allowable for individuals, and so I think it is reasonable to assume the question hangs on what Revenue (or rather, the Courts) agree is credible that a person might consume within the expiration date of the cigarettes being introduced (do cigarettes have expiration dates? I have no idea, but it must be relevant).

It's obviously going to be a lot more than 800 cigarettes, which I suspect is deliberately misleading. In practice, the personal restriction quantity would have to be considerably higher.

RATM

This has come up before, both in the media and at an Oireachtas committee meeting. I'm not going searching for it now but there is a full article on independent.ie on the subject, specifically in respect of cigarettes.

The 800 figure on Revenue's website is wrong and misleading and they admitted this directly before an Oireachtas committee. They admitted that the real figure for EU to EU cigarettes which are for personal consumption is 3,200. Once you go over 3,200 then customs are permitted to take the view that you are smuggling and can seize them.

Revenue do not like to admit any of the above and nor do they advertise it anywhere - this very point came up at the Oirecactas committee meeting when a TD asked why people were being given wrong information and the Revenue official just squirmed and said they didn't know.

But basically the 800 'guideline' firgure that Revenue still throw about is complete codwhallop provided the cigarettes are bought in an EU country and have the duty paid stamp on them. You can't go to a duty free zone like the Canaries and bring back 3,200 but you certainly can do to somewhere like Poland or Hungary- when I smoked me and a mate did this every 8-9 months- the flights would cost us about €200 return but the duty saved on the cigarettes would more than pay for the holiday.

If you did it now there is still substantial savings
3,200 cigarettes will cost you €1536 in Ireland (€9.60 a pack)
3,200 cigarettes will cost you €400 in Poland (€2.50 a pack)

Which is a difference of €1,136. For a 20 a day smoker doing a trip to Eastern Europe twice a year will save €2,272 over buying them here. A smoker can have themselves two free holidays and still have change left over in their pocket and there isn't a thing Revenue can do about it, in fact I'm surprised more people aren't doing it.

All that said when I did arrive home from these trips and stacked up 3,200 cigarettes on my bedroom floor I didn't feel very good about myself ! At least I'm off them now

Cody Pomeray

Yes, appears to have been confirmed by Revenue:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/ACC/2010/03/11/printall.asp

Deputy Brendan Kenneally: Obviously it is becoming more of a problem. How are the cigarettes getting in?

Ms Josephine Feehily: By every method known to man and woman. There are three main ways in which untaxed tobacco gets into the country. The first is often missed in the discussion. In the context of our membership of the European Union, people can bring duty paid tobacco from other member states for their personal use. While we have an indicative guideline of 800 cigarettes, it is only indicative and the law states a person can bring in tobacco for personal use. There is significant case law in the European and domestic courts that suggests that the burden of proof for us to establish cigarettes are not for personal use is very high. People can legally bring many thousands of cigarettes into the country for their own use.

RATM do you have any link to the 3,200 figure by any chance? Just curious as to how they arrived at that figure did they just pluck it out of... ahem.

RATM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Yes, appears to have been confirmed by Revenue:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/ACC/2010/03/11/printall.asp


RATM do you have any link to the 3,200 figure by any chance? Just curious as to how they arrived at that figure did they just pluck it out of... ahem.

I don't but I've heard that UK customs use the exact same figure so my guess is that it is an EU wide figure. So whilst I agree that the 3,200 figure was likely plucked out of someone's arse it was likely done so in Brussels over Dublin.